Hi, all !
I'm about to change oil seals for the n'th time, mainly because I made a mistake when inserting Vesrah ones.
Well, not a big & difficult job, but it's a pitty ruining the teflon coated bushings when dismantling the fork.
Today I found this link, describing an alternative method for getting them old seals out:
http://www.motorcycl...eals/index.html
It sounds quite simple, and, you don't destroy the bushings:
1) remove the cap
2) remove spring
3) remove oil seal locking clip
4) extend fork tube maximally
5) fill the fork leg with (preferrably cheap) oil
6) reinsert fork cap
If no air is present, you'll have a closed chamber filled with oil.
7) Now, compressing the fork will make the oil pressure pop out the seal...
...ehh, will it ?
Anyone tried this ?
Bjorge
What About This Method For Changing Oil Seals ?
Started by
Bjørge
, May 18 2009 02:28 pm
66 replies to this topic
#1
Bjørge
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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:28 pm
Bjørge
#2
ChrisG
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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:57 pm
Don't see why it wouldn't, but it'll likely make one hell of a mess.
Someone on here reckoned screwing a self tapping screw in to the seal to get something to pull on worked well, but need to be carefull you don't scratch the chrome as you pull it.
Someone on here reckoned screwing a self tapping screw in to the seal to get something to pull on worked well, but need to be carefull you don't scratch the chrome as you pull it.
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#3
dapleb
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Posted 18 May 2009 - 03:28 pm
It would be great of it saved the teflon as that really irks me bad. Things exploding out of location might irk me more though. Lettuce snow how ya get on.
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
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If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
#4
stormy
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Posted 18 May 2009 - 05:09 pm
It works.
Wrap a cloth around the fork seal area to catch the blown out seal and minimise the mess.
Also remember to put the retaining clips back in after the new seals ......... cos its embarrassing otherwise after the first time you jump on the bike to go any where .......
Wrap a cloth around the fork seal area to catch the blown out seal and minimise the mess.
Also remember to put the retaining clips back in after the new seals ......... cos its embarrassing otherwise after the first time you jump on the bike to go any where .......
RIP STORMY - killed by careless driver Oct 2009
currently owned ....
1996 YAMAHA TRX850 gone away for little holiday with Andrea
1997 YAMAHA TDM850 which are obviously an acquired taste. I fink I'm starting to get it now.....
1998 DUCATI 748 ... one way of keeping an old man broke.
1999 YAMAHA Thunderace there is STILL no finer motorcycle
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currently owned ....
1996 YAMAHA TRX850 gone away for little holiday with Andrea
1997 YAMAHA TDM850 which are obviously an acquired taste. I fink I'm starting to get it now.....
1998 DUCATI 748 ... one way of keeping an old man broke.
1999 YAMAHA Thunderace there is STILL no finer motorcycle
2008 SUZUKI Bandit 1250SA ...... fecked by yours truly, but ......... still fitted with the worlds most uncomfortable bike seat. ouch!
#5
Bjørge
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Posted 18 May 2009 - 09:34 pm
QUOTE(stormy @ Mon 18th May 2009, 07:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It works.
Wrap a cloth around the fork seal area to catch the blown out seal and minimise the mess.
Also remember to put the retaining clips back in after the new seals ......... cos its embarrassing otherwise after the first time you jump on the bike to go any where .......
Wrap a cloth around the fork seal area to catch the blown out seal and minimise the mess.
Also remember to put the retaining clips back in after the new seals ......... cos its embarrassing otherwise after the first time you jump on the bike to go any where .......
But one thing I don't understand: How do you get the air out of the space between inner and outer tube ?
Bjørge
#6
robelst
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Posted 18 May 2009 - 10:18 pm
I have never damaged the bushes when pulling the forks apart. 
How would they damaged?: It's just a washer knocking evenly upwards against the bush that has no room to move around? Having said that, I usually replace the bushes anyway, unless they really look like new.
I'd love to see the Heath Robinson alternative using oil pressure on YouTube though
How would they damaged?: It's just a washer knocking evenly upwards against the bush that has no room to move around? Having said that, I usually replace the bushes anyway, unless they really look like new.I'd love to see the Heath Robinson alternative using oil pressure on YouTube though
That was not a banana, Dougal
#7
dapleb
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Posted 18 May 2009 - 10:29 pm
MkI forks (i.e proper cartridge) the lower teflon bush comes partially through the upper teflon bush and rips the teflon coating off. Rather than butting against the upper bush as suggested in the various manuals. Have tried various ways off this not happening but it always does. If you know different then there is a cake reward availabe (on successful completion).
I may well try the oil thing tomato as there is an old TDM fork about ear somewhere that need some learning. Wonder if I could find a cheaper substance than oil....hmm. Have cam corder
I may well try the oil thing tomato as there is an old TDM fork about ear somewhere that need some learning. Wonder if I could find a cheaper substance than oil....hmm. Have cam corder
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
#8
Bjørge
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Posted 19 May 2009 - 06:14 am
QUOTE(dapleb @ Tue 19th May 2009, 12:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
MkI forks (i.e proper cartridge) the lower teflon bush comes partially through the upper teflon bush and rips the teflon coating off. Rather than butting against the upper bush as suggested in the various manuals. Have tried various ways off this not happening but it always does. If you know different then there is a cake reward availabe (on successful completion).
To my experience this happens in about 2 of 3 cases - the third one miracolously comes out in one piece (ehhh...two pieces).
QUOTE(dapleb @ Tue 19th May 2009, 12:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I may well try the oil thing tomato as there is an old TDM fork about ear somewhere that need some learning. Wonder if I could find a cheaper substance than oil....hmm. Have cam corder
Well, there is a point using a substance that will not simply "pass" between the seal lip and the tube - as the seal (at least in my case) is actually not 100% ok. I'll record everything - I guess thursday may be the day...
Bjørge
#9
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Posted 19 May 2009 - 08:23 am
QUOTE(dapleb @ Mon 18th May 2009, 11:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I may well try the oil thing tomato as there is an old TDM fork about ear somewhere that need some learning. Wonder if I could find a cheaper substance than oil....hmm. Have cam corder
I'm annoyed that I threw out 10 litres of veg oil at the weekend that had been cluttering up the garage for ages 'cos I've got a spare fork too
1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.
#10
dapleb
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Posted 19 May 2009 - 01:23 pm
Gave it a whirl. Can see how it might work, just got to find a suitable method for compressing the fork now. Apparently 19stone of cake laden fat wac isn't enough.
Decided to put a milk container condom on to try and eliminate the possibilty of any "red eye".
bjorge_fork.JPG 16.45KB
59 downloads
Decided to put a milk container condom on to try and eliminate the possibilty of any "red eye".
bjorge_fork.JPG 16.45KB
59 downloads
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
#11
ChrisG
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Posted 19 May 2009 - 02:00 pm
Can you make a sling for the top and then rope it to the bottom of a trolly jack with it sat on the lift plate? Big advantage over applying lots of cake is that when it pops it won't then compress fully and flood the area with oil.
Alternatively look at it as a good excuse to make yourself a cider press.
Alternatively look at it as a good excuse to make yourself a cider press.
1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.
#12
dapleb
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Posted 19 May 2009 - 02:13 pm
I normally make a tourniquet to compress the fork to do up the borrum bolt, so oil give that a whirl. WAs thunkin of some ratshit strap type setup but would be concerned about getting an even pull.
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
#13
dandywarhol
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Posted 19 May 2009 - 05:45 pm
QUOTE(dapleb @ Tue 19th May 2009, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I normally make a tourniquet to compress the fork to do up the borrum bolt, so oil give that a whirl. WAs thunkin of some ratshit strap type setup but would be concerned about getting an even pull.
Thought you'd have perfected that by now with your nocturnal activities....................................
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#14
Guest_Dannyboy_*
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Posted 19 May 2009 - 07:16 pm
This is going to end in tears.
#15
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Posted 20 May 2009 - 08:38 am
So long he gets it all on video it'll be good entertainment for the rest of us.
1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.
#16
dapleb
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Posted 20 May 2009 - 08:44 am
Yeah I have recorded all done so far, including "fat wac on TDM fork pogo stick". Is it easy to set up a pootube account?
All I could think of last night to compress fork enough was a ratshit strap around a plank and the fork but someone has a lend of me ratshits at the moment. Might have a go at ChrisG's idea later. Forgot how much I love the smell of pickled onion water.....mmmm nice.
All I could think of last night to compress fork enough was a ratshit strap around a plank and the fork but someone has a lend of me ratshits at the moment. Might have a go at ChrisG's idea later. Forgot how much I love the smell of pickled onion water.....mmmm nice.
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
#17
dapleb
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Posted 20 May 2009 - 02:55 pm
Pfff hardly dangerous at all. THE JOBS A CARROT. I used ChrisG's suggestion of trolley jack, I placed the fork on the jack, wrapped a thick canves towing strap around the base of the jack and then around the fork top, looped the strap which gave me a nice little foothold for added control. Took out the slack, wound the jack up a few inches and BINGO BANGO BONGO.
The seal came out. No powerful jets of pickled onion water or mess, the fork condom did its thang.
A little irritated that after spedning some time thinking about this I couldn't come up with this solution with my own pea brain. Also it doesn't account for worn bushes that need replacing anyroad. But a few times I have had a new seal leak for no apparent reason and it has irked me bad to have to destroy brand new bushes to change the seal.
Thanks for sharing this info Bjorge and thanks for the jack idea Chris.
b0o0op
The seal came out. No powerful jets of pickled onion water or mess, the fork condom did its thang.
A little irritated that after spedning some time thinking about this I couldn't come up with this solution with my own pea brain. Also it doesn't account for worn bushes that need replacing anyroad. But a few times I have had a new seal leak for no apparent reason and it has irked me bad to have to destroy brand new bushes to change the seal.
Thanks for sharing this info Bjorge and thanks for the jack idea Chris.
b0o0op
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
#18
Bjørge
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Posted 20 May 2009 - 10:05 pm
QUOTE(dapleb @ Wed 20th May 2009, 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for sharing this info Bjorge and thanks for the jack idea Chris.
...and thank you for trying this out before I got hands on a new pair of oil seals...
Just one thing: Is there an issue with getting the fork filled 100% with oil (or whatever) ?
...could it be an idea filling it with Coke Light and Mentos, put the cap back on, shake it a few times and run ?
Bjørge
#19
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Posted 20 May 2009 - 10:08 pm
But then you've got to get the mentos out
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#20
dapleb
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Posted 20 May 2009 - 10:43 pm
QUOTE(Bjørge @ Wed 20th May 2009, 11:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just one thing: Is there an issue with getting the fork filled 100% with oil (or whatever) ?
Nope, just fully extend, wrap some tape at the base to keep it extended, fill and close. The only thing I would be careful of is make sure the fork IS totally fully as otherwise you might be compressing/mashing fork internals rather than popping the seal. I had one fork dismantled so used those inards to mark off where the internals were to make sure this didnt happen. With the fork fulll there is obviously next to no movement before the seal pops which is how you want it.
Its all on the video, which I might post up on pootube for you to all larf at. Set up an account but then Wicky dragged me off to Paignton Boike Noight.
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
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