I'm not really happy with the snatchy throttle at town speeds on my 08 900. I've had the airbox mod done but that didn't seem to make much difference. I'm now wondering if a Power Commander is the way forward. Any views?
Snatch Throttle - Again
Started by
Nanook
, May 26 2009 06:26 pm
37 replies to this topic
#1
Nanook
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Posted 26 May 2009 - 06:26 pm
Lads,
I'm not really happy with the snatchy throttle at town speeds on my 08 900. I've had the airbox mod done but that didn't seem to make much difference. I'm now wondering if a Power Commander is the way forward. Any views?
I'm not really happy with the snatchy throttle at town speeds on my 08 900. I've had the airbox mod done but that didn't seem to make much difference. I'm now wondering if a Power Commander is the way forward. Any views?
Beware the whitevanman!
#2
Guest_trevini_*
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Posted 26 May 2009 - 07:29 pm
Before spending money on a power commander, see if you can get the co settings checked against factory settings in the workshop manual (and adjusted if required) using a co meter. You'd be surprised how much difference it makes.
#3
Stratman
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Posted 27 May 2009 - 05:42 pm
QUOTE(trevini @ Tue 26th May 2009, 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Before spending money on a power commander, see if you can get the co settings checked against factory settings in the workshop manual (and adjusted if required) using a co meter. You'd be surprised how much difference it makes.
Also, take out extra slack from the throttle cable, that helps too. It is a pain though I agree, my carbed VTR1000 is much smoother in such circumstances.
Two bikes, still only four cylinders!
#4
OldGreyWizard
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Posted 27 May 2009 - 09:07 pm
My bike was very poor in traffic, 07 900. The airbox mod transformed it.
I really can't see how a power commander could possible improve it.
With the airbox mod your 08 900 should not need the PCIII. Every bike should be set by the dealer when it is sold.
Check the settings, it is unlikely to be more than 5 different between C1 and C2.
Hope this helps and saves you money.
I really can't see how a power commander could possible improve it.
With the airbox mod your 08 900 should not need the PCIII. Every bike should be set by the dealer when it is sold.
Check the settings, it is unlikely to be more than 5 different between C1 and C2.
Hope this helps and saves you money.
#5
AzzA
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Posted 31 May 2009 - 03:42 pm
I've got an '09, have done the airbox mod and have removed all slack from the throttle cables. The bike is now better than it was but there is still a lot of room for improvement. It is especially of concern when doing tight, low speed, turns.
It really does feel like it is just a matter of time before the "snatch" throws me into harms way. I'm sure that I'm not alone in this thought.
My searching has found this:
http://www.staintune...m900_letter.htm
for this product (bottom of the page):
http://www.staintune...pplications.htm
It would appear that the Sfi 1025 sold by Staintune is a re-badged (clone) of the FI-1025 Dobecker Performance.
Whether either of these would help fix the problem with an 09, I don't know. But I'm just about willing to try, even if it does waste my $$.
Does anyone know what year/model the Oxygen (O2) Sensor was added to the 900?
It really does feel like it is just a matter of time before the "snatch" throws me into harms way. I'm sure that I'm not alone in this thought.
My searching has found this:
http://www.staintune...m900_letter.htm
for this product (bottom of the page):
http://www.staintune...pplications.htm
It would appear that the Sfi 1025 sold by Staintune is a re-badged (clone) of the FI-1025 Dobecker Performance.
Whether either of these would help fix the problem with an 09, I don't know. But I'm just about willing to try, even if it does waste my $$.
Does anyone know what year/model the Oxygen (O2) Sensor was added to the 900?
#6
Oil patch
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Posted 31 May 2009 - 04:46 pm
QUOTE(AzzA @ Sun 31st May 2009, 04:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've got an '09, have done the airbox mod and have removed all slack from the throttle cables. The bike is now better than it was but there is still a lot of room for improvement. It is especially of concern when doing tight, low speed, turns.
It really does feel like it is just a matter of time before the "snatch" throws me into harms way. I'm sure that I'm not alone in this thought.
It really does feel like it is just a matter of time before the "snatch" throws me into harms way. I'm sure that I'm not alone in this thought.
Hi Azza, I have the same problem and, although the airbox mod has greatly improved low speed riding, when doing tight low speed turns you will need to have a lot of clutch control, and that means keeping revs at managable level, but easing clutch in and out. After doing the mod I found the take off from rest is good and the induction roar is f u n
all the best
oiley
#7
AzzA
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 08:48 am
Yes the extra noise, particularly the exhaust burble on deceleration, is almost reason enough for doing the mod'. 
But having to rely on heavily slipping the clutch, something that is generally frowned upon, is something I would like to avoid.
For instance say, you've just ridden four (4) hours through cold wind and rainy conditions, you've finally reached civilisation again, and now you have to deal with the ques of traffic that is everyone else going home. The rider is fatigued, and probably a bit stiff, the road is wet, and the traffic could well be described as swinging between "hostile" and "asleep". It's not the time you really want to get a cramp in your left hand, it is the time you'd like your bike to ride smoothly just off idle though.
Maybe I was spoilt in the past, by riding twins with carbies.
But having to rely on heavily slipping the clutch, something that is generally frowned upon, is something I would like to avoid.
For instance say, you've just ridden four (4) hours through cold wind and rainy conditions, you've finally reached civilisation again, and now you have to deal with the ques of traffic that is everyone else going home. The rider is fatigued, and probably a bit stiff, the road is wet, and the traffic could well be described as swinging between "hostile" and "asleep". It's not the time you really want to get a cramp in your left hand, it is the time you'd like your bike to ride smoothly just off idle though.
Maybe I was spoilt in the past, by riding twins with carbies.
QUOTE(Oil patch @ Mon 1st Jun 2009, 02:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Azza, I have the same problem and, although the airbox mod has greatly improved low speed riding, when doing tight low speed turns you will need to have a lot of clutch control, and that means keeping revs at managable level, but easing clutch in and out. After doing the mod I found the take off from rest is good and the induction roar is f u n
all the best
oiley
all the best
oiley
Edited by AzzA, 01 June 2009 - 08:49 am.
#8
aussie9
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 02:44 pm
AzzA, don't race out and spend any money yet.
My 09 has running poorly since I un-crated it. The 2000-3400rpm area had snatchy throttle and other issues making it a real nag to use around town. Discovered on the weekend that the TPS ohms reading is well out of range. And yes , air box mod done.
Have ordered a new TPS under warranty and hopefully replaced next week.
In the mean time a little inside information has lead to a reasonable outcome giving me a lovely smooth torquey bike.
In diag mode the throttle opening readings were in range at 'closed' 16 and 'fully open' 98, allowable 15-17 and 96-100.
Adjusted the TPS to give full throttle reading of 100. I then adjusted the idle stop back to give a closed reading of 16.
On restarting it sounded much better than before, smooth.
First test ride revealed a totally different bike. Pulled from 2000 with no flat spots or surging and 3000 light throttle cruise around town was actually pleasant. Then a problem.
Pulled up at the lights and it died. I should not have adjusting the idle back. Reset the idle to 1200 and all is good.
Totally different bike. Still have a very minor problem at 2500 around town but hoping the new TPS will clear this up.
The new 'closed' throttle reading is 19, technically out of range but hey, it works great.
I have not adjust the CO settings. #1 is 14 and #2 is 16. (Many of you out there may see this as a problem in itself) I don't have a CO2 meter.
I will be discussing these issues with Yamaha Tech Services tomorrow and also will be talking with another private tuner who has actually figured the TDM out. The message passed to me today was 'it's adjustable on the dash'. Tomorrow I find out.
Will keep you posted.
My 09 has running poorly since I un-crated it. The 2000-3400rpm area had snatchy throttle and other issues making it a real nag to use around town. Discovered on the weekend that the TPS ohms reading is well out of range. And yes , air box mod done.
Have ordered a new TPS under warranty and hopefully replaced next week.
In the mean time a little inside information has lead to a reasonable outcome giving me a lovely smooth torquey bike.
In diag mode the throttle opening readings were in range at 'closed' 16 and 'fully open' 98, allowable 15-17 and 96-100.
Adjusted the TPS to give full throttle reading of 100. I then adjusted the idle stop back to give a closed reading of 16.
On restarting it sounded much better than before, smooth.
First test ride revealed a totally different bike. Pulled from 2000 with no flat spots or surging and 3000 light throttle cruise around town was actually pleasant. Then a problem.
Pulled up at the lights and it died. I should not have adjusting the idle back. Reset the idle to 1200 and all is good.
Totally different bike. Still have a very minor problem at 2500 around town but hoping the new TPS will clear this up.
The new 'closed' throttle reading is 19, technically out of range but hey, it works great.
I have not adjust the CO settings. #1 is 14 and #2 is 16. (Many of you out there may see this as a problem in itself) I don't have a CO2 meter.
I will be discussing these issues with Yamaha Tech Services tomorrow and also will be talking with another private tuner who has actually figured the TDM out. The message passed to me today was 'it's adjustable on the dash'. Tomorrow I find out.
Will keep you posted.
Ian
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#9
AzzA
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 02:53 pm
Strewth Aussie9,
I tried to order a tuner last night but, thankfully, the web page failed.
I eagerly await your update.... and will be checking my bike using the diag mode.
Much thanks,
AzzA
I tried to order a tuner last night but, thankfully, the web page failed.
I eagerly await your update.... and will be checking my bike using the diag mode.
Much thanks,
AzzA
#10
Buzzo
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 06:08 pm
G'day, I had a quick search and found a post from Guinness that will help you out with the setting of the CO. David Saxton originally posted it and help me out with my original 900. Unfortunately I ended up doing the airbox mod the night before going in for a Power commander and dyno. I could have sworn it ran better on the way there but don't know if it was the air box mod or the powecommander that sorted things out in the end. The one I have now hasn't bothered me with the snatching but I did the mod anyway.
I'd never heard of the Staintune unit before. It's got a good write up, but if I was going to spend the dollars I think I'd prefer to get it Dyno'd as well.
http://www.carpe-tdm...hl=co2 settings
Steve
I'd never heard of the Staintune unit before. It's got a good write up, but if I was going to spend the dollars I think I'd prefer to get it Dyno'd as well.
http://www.carpe-tdm...hl=co2 settings
Steve
#11
aussie9
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Posted 02 June 2009 - 10:05 am
Thanks for the links Steve. Have read those before but it was good timing to go through them again.
'Private tuning guy' out of office today unfortunately. So no updates yet.
'Private tuning guy' out of office today unfortunately. So no updates yet.
Ian
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#12
tedium
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Posted 03 June 2009 - 08:52 am
The snatchy throttle on my 9er is really winding me up as well. Wet greasy mini roundabouts are no fun when the power comes in unpredictably and with a bang......
I've done the airbox mod ages ago and it made no real difference. I've also fiddled with the CO settings and the problem is still there. I don't know if it is some sort of setting than can be altered or whether the actual injection system and/or ECU on the 900 is an old design and therefore can never be sorted out?
I recently had my bike which is standard but with Fuel cans (baffles in) dyno'd. It showed perfect fueling at full and 60% throttle throughout the rev range but the chart for small throttle openings was all over the place and the bike was/is running much leaner at these openings - presumably this is designed in to get through emissions regs.
The Staintune thingy seems to have worked but this is based on testimony from one owner - not the most solid basis on which to spend money. I know that a power commander could be set up to adjust the part throttle fueling but quite a few peeps seem to have problems with power commanders. I'm also not sure how much improvement it would make - from my point of view I don't want to improve the problem I want to sort it completely or my bikes going and I will get something else.
As a last thought----some time ago one of the UK bike mags ran a Fazer 1000 (early injected model)on long term test and they cursed the snatchy part throttle response which was so bad it ruined the bike....sound familiar? They eventually sorted the problem out with a plug in device called something like "Ivans fuel cut off eliminator". Anybody got any idea whether such a thing is available and/or would work on a TDM?
I've done the airbox mod ages ago and it made no real difference. I've also fiddled with the CO settings and the problem is still there. I don't know if it is some sort of setting than can be altered or whether the actual injection system and/or ECU on the 900 is an old design and therefore can never be sorted out?
I recently had my bike which is standard but with Fuel cans (baffles in) dyno'd. It showed perfect fueling at full and 60% throttle throughout the rev range but the chart for small throttle openings was all over the place and the bike was/is running much leaner at these openings - presumably this is designed in to get through emissions regs.
The Staintune thingy seems to have worked but this is based on testimony from one owner - not the most solid basis on which to spend money. I know that a power commander could be set up to adjust the part throttle fueling but quite a few peeps seem to have problems with power commanders. I'm also not sure how much improvement it would make - from my point of view I don't want to improve the problem I want to sort it completely or my bikes going and I will get something else.
As a last thought----some time ago one of the UK bike mags ran a Fazer 1000 (early injected model)on long term test and they cursed the snatchy part throttle response which was so bad it ruined the bike....sound familiar? They eventually sorted the problem out with a plug in device called something like "Ivans fuel cut off eliminator". Anybody got any idea whether such a thing is available and/or would work on a TDM?
#13
Stratman
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Posted 03 June 2009 - 09:17 am
My 2004 is a bit jerky too, 2nd gear fast corners are a pain sometimes as you really have to be careful - throttle doesn't come in and the fron t flops then all of a sudden.....
Pity, ruins the bike and if it was my only one I'd sell it just for that problem and get a Tiger or something.
Pity, ruins the bike and if it was my only one I'd sell it just for that problem and get a Tiger or something.
Two bikes, still only four cylinders!
#14
aussie9
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Posted 03 June 2009 - 11:24 am
Spoke to 'private tuning guy' today and his basic instruction was it's probably too rich. I was thinking too lean.. anyway.
My starting CO's #1, +14 & #2, +16. Before starting out for work today adjusted both to +20. Headed off and after warming up it felt worse. Stopped and set both down to +10. Now I was getting an improvement. The surging at 2500 barely noticeable. Lunch time set both to 0 and headed off again. So damn close, but just not quite, set both to -10. NO. Back to 0. Pretty happy in the 0 to +10 range just fine tuning now. It will pull cleanly from 1800 in the lower gears but was a bit reluctant from 2000 in top, but with gentle hand would move off without snatching and surging.
The final result should improve when the new TPS is fitted on Friday. I'll report back on this.
This evening put the mercury guage on and double checked the balance of the throttle bodies. Only the smallest of tweaks needed but no noticeable difference to running. Tomorrow morning another seat of the pants test ride through town on the way to work.
Hope this helps.
My starting CO's #1, +14 & #2, +16. Before starting out for work today adjusted both to +20. Headed off and after warming up it felt worse. Stopped and set both down to +10. Now I was getting an improvement. The surging at 2500 barely noticeable. Lunch time set both to 0 and headed off again. So damn close, but just not quite, set both to -10. NO. Back to 0. Pretty happy in the 0 to +10 range just fine tuning now. It will pull cleanly from 1800 in the lower gears but was a bit reluctant from 2000 in top, but with gentle hand would move off without snatching and surging.
The final result should improve when the new TPS is fitted on Friday. I'll report back on this.
This evening put the mercury guage on and double checked the balance of the throttle bodies. Only the smallest of tweaks needed but no noticeable difference to running. Tomorrow morning another seat of the pants test ride through town on the way to work.
Hope this helps.
Ian
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#15
muddy
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Posted 03 June 2009 - 11:36 am
QUOTE(tedium @ Wed 3rd Jun 2009, 09:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The snatchy throttle on my 9er is really winding me up as well. Wet greasy mini roundabouts are no fun when the power comes in unpredictably and with a bang......
I've done the airbox mod ages ago and it made no real difference. I've also fiddled with the CO settings and the problem is still there.
I've done the airbox mod ages ago and it made no real difference. I've also fiddled with the CO settings and the problem is still there.
This is my experience as well. There are now a few owners coming forward indicating that the airbox mod isn't a generic solution to the problem.
Blue 04 TDM,PR2 rear Roadsmart front, Yamaha topox, Givi E360 panniers, PL pannier holders, BMW handguards, Yamaha touring screen, Scottoiler, 12v ciggie socket, carbon core HT leads
Gorn 
#16
Nanook
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Posted 05 June 2009 - 07:52 am
Thanks for all the responses and info lads. I have printed off the forum pages on this topic and will be seeing my dealer in the very near future. If I don't get a resolution to this I will be binning the TDM and getting something that is not a pain in the arse to ride at low speeds. Watch this space!
Beware the whitevanman!
#17
muddy
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Posted 05 June 2009 - 01:58 pm
QUOTE(Nanook @ Fri 5th Jun 2009, 08:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for all the responses and info lads. I have printed off the forum pages on this topic and will be seeing my dealer in the very near future. If I don't get a resolution to this I will be binning the TDM and getting something that is not a pain in the arse to ride at low speeds. Watch this space!
I think if more punters had done what you're doing, Yamaha may have been forced to make EFI a priority to get right. It seem they've done nothing from year to year to rectify this fault, maybe because not enough people have caused a fuss.
Blue 04 TDM,PR2 rear Roadsmart front, Yamaha topox, Givi E360 panniers, PL pannier holders, BMW handguards, Yamaha touring screen, Scottoiler, 12v ciggie socket, carbon core HT leads
Gorn
#18
aussie9
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Posted 05 June 2009 - 02:43 pm
QUOTE(muddy @ Fri 5th Jun 2009, 11:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think if more punters had done what you're doing, Yamaha may have been forced to make EFI a priority to get right. It seem they've done nothing from year to year to rectify this fault, maybe because not enough people have caused a fuss.
I agree. It does make you wonder though. The TDM is hugely popular (northern hemisphere) yet it is continually produced with this fuel map issue. My 2005 FZ6s has been perfect from day 1 and requires no mods (re: tuning) to function in it's day to day use. Frustrating!
Ian
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#19
Toraneko
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Posted 29 June 2009 - 07:27 am
QUOTE(aussie9 @ Sat 6th Jun 2009, 12:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree. It does make you wonder though. The TDM is hugely popular (northern hemisphere) yet it is continually produced with this fuel map issue. My 2005 FZ6s has been perfect from day 1 and requires no mods (re: tuning) to function in it's day to day use. Frustrating!
Did the JBX airbox mod on mine soon as I got it home & it made the world of difference to mine.
I think some of your concerns are due to the fact TDM900 is a twin & fuel injected. My V-strom 650 felt snatchy too till I got used to it. I'd say the TDM900 is no worse than V-Strom once the airbox mod is done. When my brother first jumped on the V-Strom he got a real surprise after always riding carb' fed bikes in the past. 
But he adjusted pretty quickly. My observation is that a correctly tuned TDM should run quite smoothly, doubt there's much of an issue with overall fuel mapping. I think there are better things to spend your money on than a Power Commander or similar.
I reckon that's just another thing to go wrong & in the end only makes the bike shops that bit more flush with cash.
cheers, Shane from Tassie
Airbox Mod ( JBX ), Krauser K-wing mount & Top Box, TDM Shield a.k.a TigerScreen Mk 2, HyperPro progressive rate fork springs, BeoWulf - Warrior exhausts,
Stebel Compact Nautilus Air-Horn with Eastern Beaver relay kit, Eastern Beaver PC-8 switched fusebox, Powerlet BMW style power socket
plus controller & heated gloves for the missus. Oxford v7 Heated Grips, V-Strom 650 HandGuards, Fenda extenda.
Stebel Compact Nautilus Air-Horn with Eastern Beaver relay kit, Eastern Beaver PC-8 switched fusebox, Powerlet BMW style power socket
plus controller & heated gloves for the missus. Oxford v7 Heated Grips, V-Strom 650 HandGuards, Fenda extenda.
#20
aussie9
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Posted 02 July 2009 - 10:15 am
All my tuning issues have finally been resolved.
As reported earlier the TPS was replaced as it was giving unreliable readings. Everything was good for 10 days then even more problems arose.
Cold starts had one cylinder dropping out. Intermittently until it thoroughly warmed up, about 15 minutes. After 5 days of this bull***t behaviour it lost one cylinder totally. FARRRRROUT!!!!!
The weekend came around and the new cruise control had arrived too. OK, replace the spark plugs and fit the cruise. Should be easy.
Removed the side panels and started the bike.
BINGO!!!
No1 high tension lead was arching (10mm out from coil) to the frame causing the miss-fire. This is a bloody new bike!
Well this one will be replaced under warranty for sure. I removed the coil and wound ample quantities of electrical insulation around the offending lead and refitted. No more miss-fire and the bike sounded smoother than it had ever before. Hooray, the problem was finally solved. This faulty coil may have been the cause of the problems right from the start.
The fitting of the electronic cruise control went as planned. Sorry guys, no pics, the camera was being recharged. The whole system is plug and play. I was road testing 4 hours later and the bike is running beautifully and the cruise is fantastic. They may be pricey, but to me it's worth every penny.
The CO's are now set at 0 and +6. Everything now feels as it should. Easy starts, smooth and torquey from 1800rpm and first weekend out with the cruise control returned 23km/l traveling 2up, only using 100kmh though.
My loss of confidence has been restored and just in the nick of time. Mid July is 4500km in 5days to QLD's Sunshine coast and back.
I am really looking forward to this trip now!
As reported earlier the TPS was replaced as it was giving unreliable readings. Everything was good for 10 days then even more problems arose.
Cold starts had one cylinder dropping out. Intermittently until it thoroughly warmed up, about 15 minutes. After 5 days of this bull***t behaviour it lost one cylinder totally. FARRRRROUT!!!!!
The weekend came around and the new cruise control had arrived too. OK, replace the spark plugs and fit the cruise. Should be easy.
Removed the side panels and started the bike.
BINGO!!!
No1 high tension lead was arching (10mm out from coil) to the frame causing the miss-fire. This is a bloody new bike!
Well this one will be replaced under warranty for sure. I removed the coil and wound ample quantities of electrical insulation around the offending lead and refitted. No more miss-fire and the bike sounded smoother than it had ever before. Hooray, the problem was finally solved. This faulty coil may have been the cause of the problems right from the start.
The fitting of the electronic cruise control went as planned. Sorry guys, no pics, the camera was being recharged. The whole system is plug and play. I was road testing 4 hours later and the bike is running beautifully and the cruise is fantastic. They may be pricey, but to me it's worth every penny.
The CO's are now set at 0 and +6. Everything now feels as it should. Easy starts, smooth and torquey from 1800rpm and first weekend out with the cruise control returned 23km/l traveling 2up, only using 100kmh though.
My loss of confidence has been restored and just in the nick of time. Mid July is 4500km in 5days to QLD's Sunshine coast and back.
I am really looking forward to this trip now!
Ian
miles <===> smiles
miles <===> smiles
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