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Tdm Vs Gs


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#21 Borderraider

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:47 pm

QUOTE(hammerman @ Tue 25th Oct 2011, 09:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a 1991 Mk1 TDM 850 and a 1997 BMW R1100GS (not covered in Touratech and Wunderlich parts I might add!). As others have said they are two different bikes. The TDM is great fun, faster than the BMW and has loads of grin factor, but it consumes oil at around 1ml per mile at motorway speeds (although oddly enough none at all round the country lanes) and can be light at the front end when it's loaded up. The BMW is easy to ride fully loaded (bikes weight is low down), is very comfortable, uses virtually no oil, has ABS, but isn't very exciting.

Both bikes have similar fuel consumption (around 50mpg), the BMW is very easier to work on, for example doing the valve clearances is a 15 minute job, as they are tappets and the cylinder heads are sticking out of the side of the bike. Both bikes vibrate a fair bit and the BMW fuel injection causes the bike to surge a little at round town speeds.

I haven't found getting technical information difficult on either bike, although the BMW forum certainly isn't as helpful and fun as Carpe.

So which is best?

Sunday afternoon blast or summer run into work - the TDM every time
Long trip with or without camping gear - the BMW (although I would do it on the TDM, but I'd worry about the oil level all the time)



We have a '99 R1100GS, interesting that I find it uncomfortable over long distance & 'busy' at motorway speeds yet love using it for sunday afternoon back lane scratching.


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#22 hammerman

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 11:09 pm

Don't get me wrong the TDM is comfortable over long distances, I just think the BMW handles it better and carries a full load with more ease. It might also be that I'm 5'7" tall so I don't get any wind blast on the BMW, but I do get a fair bit on the TDM ? I've not tried too much scratching on the BMW, I guess you can throw it around if you want to, but I still think the TDM is better at it.

Like I said two different bikes, and no doubt each a different ride for different people

#23 Whippet

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 10:29 am

Well I had a standard 1150GS and I did love to ride it. Love the GS's boxer engine and a darn sight easier to do a valve service on than my Mk1 TDM!

The engines will generally go forever and the shaft drive was great. However it was a cumbersome beast to manouver around (backing into garage etc.) and this was it's downside. I also found that the braking system when ridden through winter was prone to disc binding and had to be constantly cleaned, doused in brake cleaner and aired off to avoid it.

The build quality isn't what we are led to believe of BMW - fasteners salt over at the mere mention of winter and engine and bottom yoke paint is less solid than my childrens watercolours (due to BMW going all health and safety concious using water based paint from a certain point in time).

I once borrowed an R1150R (same engine - different chassis - more of a classic road bike) when mine was in for tyres and found it to have all the benefits of the GS along with carrying it's weight a lot lower - ok there's not quite as good a view over traffic. I honestly think that most GS riders would be better off on one of those 99% of the time, they just don't have the same kudos.

BMW luggage system is brilliant (standard black cases - can't comment on the touratech style ones). They lock on and off the bike and leave no obtrusive racks on view, just a very subtle rail.

1200 GS is quite different being less cumbersome and a lot freer revving, does feel more plasticky tho.

Loved the GS but they have their downsides and there is a big cost differential.


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#24 Borderraider

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 02:34 pm

QUOTE(Whippet @ Wed 26th Oct 2011, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I once borrowed an R1150R (same engine - different chassis - more of a classic road bike) when mine was in for tyres and found it to have all the benefits of the GS along with carrying it's weight a lot lower - ok there's not quite as good a view over traffic. I honestly think that most GS riders would be better off on one of those 99% of the time, they just don't have the same kudos.



I found the 17" front wheel boxers didn't handle as well as 19" wheeled GS, for a while I ran 17" wheels on one of my GSA's..horrible, particularly in the wet.

Had mostly BM's since '96 so know them pretty well,

R850R x 2
R1150R
R1100GS x 2
R1150GS x 3
R1150GSA x 2
R1200GS x 5
R1200GSA


GSA now for sale ....hopefully the TDM will be along shortly

Edited by Borderraider, 26 October 2011 - 02:35 pm.

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#25 HonaTDM

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 06:46 pm

QUOTE(Borderraider @ Tue 25th Oct 2011, 12:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anyone had both & can offer a true comparison?


I ran a GS1150 for 5 years and 56K miles before I got the TDM (3 years, 28K miles and counting) so feel able to comment.
The TDM is lighter, cheaper and uses less fuel.
GS1150 was (is?) IMHO the best bike ever made... but once things like the shaft starts to wear it's time to move on.
A GS will run rings round a TDM on a bumpy back-road... but they runs rings around anything in those circumstances.
The TDM is bloody good though and once was a bargain (but the current list price is taking the P a bit).
Both have that 'something' about them that instills faith and the urge to go places.
I couldn't bring myself to consider a GS12 cos a) everyone has one, and b) reliability is a little suspect (which is why there are loads for sale just as the warranty runs out).

One other thing they both take a lot of miles to fully bed in, that's why the first valve check on the TDM are 24K and the GS's continue to increase in oomph untill they reach about 20K.

Take yer pick...

#26 Borderraider

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 07:08 pm

QUOTE(HonaTDM @ Wed 26th Oct 2011, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The TDM is bloody good though and once was a bargain (but the current list price is taking the P a bit).


Mind made up, as soon as the GSA has gone I'll be getting a TDM.

Won't be buying new, 2 yr old low mileage seem good to me.


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#27 Glossausage

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:36 pm

QUOTE(Borderraider @ Tue 25th Oct 2011, 12:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anyone had both & can offer a true comparison?

Yes, I chopped in my 1200 GS for my TDM900 and not regretted it for a moment.
My previous R1150GS I had about 10 years ago would run it closer but I cant find anything to better the TDM for me
Things I prefer
Engine
price
comfort
price
Gearbox
price
looks
price
weight
price
fuel economy
price


#28 Geordie Guy

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 07:32 am

QUOTE(Borderraider @ Wed 26th Oct 2011, 08:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mind made up, as soon as the GSA has gone I'll be getting a TDM.

Won't be buying new, 2 yr old low mileage seem good to me.



Result yahoo.gif

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Up yours, good.gif
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#29 Whippet

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 08:07 am

QUOTE(Borderraider @ Wed 26th Oct 2011, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I found the 17" front wheel boxers didn't handle as well as 19" wheeled GS, for a while I ran 17" wheels on one of my GSA's..horrible, particularly in the wet.

Had mostly BM's since '96 so know them pretty well,

R850R x 2
R1150R
R1100GS x 2
R1150GS x 3
R1150GSA x 2
R1200GS x 5
R1200GSA
GSA now for sale ....hopefully the TDM will be along shortly


Never had an issue with the front wheels even on an 1100s that I owned or the works RT's, any vagueness I attributed to the telelever front end but I suppose different riding styles will bring out different characteristics. I doubt you'll be dissapointed with the TDM good.gif
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#30 Borderraider

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 07:58 pm

QUOTE(Geordie Guy @ Thu 27th Oct 2011, 08:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Result yahoo.gif

BM fookin W, RiDE magazine, Hien Gerkin, Charlie and Hughie, and GS supporters all over the WORLD !
Up yours, good.gif


Bring your TDM round, I'll get the old 1100GS out & we'll go for a run round the borders maybe stop for a brew at St.Marys??

I'll be sitting outside wearing Hein Gericke gear & reading Ride mag


Tea or coffee?

tongue.gif
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#31 sidestand

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 09:12 pm

rotflmmfao.gif rotflmmfao.gif rotflmmfao.gif

post-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gifpost-1-1152402501.jpgThe older I get, the better I was

96 MkII in yellow & silver with bluespots, braided lines, Remus 2 into 1, Hagon rear shock & fork springs, bashplate, heated grips,Motech pannier racks, Road Attacks, Jockoiler, Baglux tank cover & bag. Gone to a far better place - hasn't it Remo?
Another 96 Mk2 in yellow & silver - absolutely standard & pristine ( apart from a butchered rear mudguard - but I'm looking for a new one
'76 Suzuki GT500 Stroker in need of a rebuild
'80 Yamaha XT250 mudplugger
another '81 XT250
'91 BMW R80GS - this one really will do a RTW trip
'05 BMW K1200S - inline four with a shaft
'10 BMW R1200GSA Anniversary Edition
'02 Fazer 1000 - 4 carbs are better than 2 ! - water pump rebuilt by Mr Ramrod Engineering
'00 Triumph Adventurer - Cruiser with a difference - British & a triple
Gary's Bathtub - '99 BMW K1200RS in luvverly pillarbox red . Now been Waspycycled to Nuneaton
And the Latest Addition - a nice BMW G650 XCountry greenlaner - on long term loan to Boy Wonder

1996 Kawasaki KH125 Stroker

2000 TDM Mk2A - nicely Studleyfied - Modified by Masterbrewer, but we've fixed that now !

BMW K1300R

2004 TDM 900 in Silver/Blue - heated grips, MRA vary screen, Wilbers rear shock & engine bars to fit 

BMW S1000XR in white 


#32 robelst

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 09:17 pm

I have done around 5k on an R1100GS, and a few hundred on both the 1150GS and 1200GS. Oh and I did over 150k on an 1100RS, 1100RT and a number of 1150RT and 1200RT laugh.gif

I never quite got on with the 1100/1150GS, despite loving my old R80GS and R100GS Paris-Dakar, as well as highly appreciating the other 1100/1150/1200 boxers: The oil-cooled GS always felt awkward and unsettlingly balanced. The 1200GS is already a lot more "together", I still much prefer the road-going Beemers.

The TDM 900 is again a whole different beast altogether. The boxer is a lot "choppier" (some would say characterful - I would, for example) and pushes you forward from lower speeds like a big invisible hand. The TDM isn't actually too bad either at lower revs but gets more lively where the Beemer (esp the 1100/1150) starts to run out of breath: It's nearly scary how well the Tedium goes when you revving it well over 6000 rpm. It's such a pity the out-dated injection messes up to lower-midrange so much, the (in)famous airbox fix doesn't seem to fix that for everyone (it actually made things worse on my '08 model, so I reverted it back to standard). Sitting position and suspension makes the TDM unnecessarily unexciting, it's got the power and surprisingly modest weight to be a lot more fun than it is - just as much as a Beemer R of F series.

You can take a TDM off-road, but to about the same effect as doing so with a Suzuki SV-S, a Honda Hornet or a Vauxhall Astra. Don't get fooled by people who park a TDM in a field to take picture of it, of post videos taking it over a muddy road at 15 mph: It will never fly, and if you try, you will pay dearly for it.The GS, provided you get a proper training, like the fantastic BMW Enduro Park in Hechlingen or Wales, with its better weight distribution, more tractible low-down power delivery and rotating mass, longer suspension and more appropriate wheel-sizes is a much better bet. Nothing like a single-cylinder off-roader though, unless you are a Stephan Peterhansel.

Typical problem with boxers, again from a rather lenghty experience: leaky crankshaft oil-seal, oiling up the clutch. Cheap item but a lot of work to fix (wheel, drive and gearbox need to come off). Shaft drive is great but higher unsprung weight mean less sensitve suspension. The engines last long but both drive and gear-box are mechanically brittle, from private experience as well as professional and as bloodrunner volunteer. Needless to say that repairs on drive-train can be hugely expensive. For that reason, I would personnally never buy a used BMW boxer without warranty. Having said that, it seems that the more recent 1200 are finally living up to BMWs reliability record again: I hope the malaise with mechanical problems and poor build-quality that started with the then all-new R100RS in '93 isn't starting all over again with the all-new water-cooled engine planned for 2012/2013. rolleyes.gif
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#33 Borderraider

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 05:21 pm

Deposit taken on the GSA, this will arrive shortly


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2007 Kawasaki Versys 650 
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2013 Kawasaki Versys 650

#34 howie

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 03:10 pm

I know a bloke wiv a GS he's done at least 1000miles this year! yes one thousand! He took it out last friday an dropped it in a ford nr Kirby Stephen1 he couldn't pick it up an had to walk for help with a strained back a bad knee and a crushed hand! but it's ok cos a farmer on a quad dragged it out for him, thats the third time he's dropped it in two years, he could hire Ewan an Charleys back up team, any other good ideas !

#35 sidestand

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 05:23 pm

If he couldn't pick a GS up, he'd struggle with a TDM ........there's not too much difference in weight.

Fords can be tricky - I dropped my GSA in a ford & smashed me ankle up - still picked it up & rode it back to the village we were staying at - adrenalin works wonders !

It sounds like it's a bit too big for him but I can identify with that - & again, a TDM is a tall bike so it wouldn't neccessarily be much better for him - I've got the same trouble, but it's not going to beat me .......5000 on mine & it's not a year old yet ( in plaster 9 weeks, so that slowed me down a bit laugh.gif )

Got offroading sussed now anyway - ride a 250 - they're much easier to pick up.

And I've learned to respect other people's choice of bike as well - after all, we're all on two wheels - it's the fact that we ride a bike, not what we ride that really matters

post-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gifpost-1-1152402501.jpgThe older I get, the better I was

96 MkII in yellow & silver with bluespots, braided lines, Remus 2 into 1, Hagon rear shock & fork springs, bashplate, heated grips,Motech pannier racks, Road Attacks, Jockoiler, Baglux tank cover & bag. Gone to a far better place - hasn't it Remo?
Another 96 Mk2 in yellow & silver - absolutely standard & pristine ( apart from a butchered rear mudguard - but I'm looking for a new one
'76 Suzuki GT500 Stroker in need of a rebuild
'80 Yamaha XT250 mudplugger
another '81 XT250
'91 BMW R80GS - this one really will do a RTW trip
'05 BMW K1200S - inline four with a shaft
'10 BMW R1200GSA Anniversary Edition
'02 Fazer 1000 - 4 carbs are better than 2 ! - water pump rebuilt by Mr Ramrod Engineering
'00 Triumph Adventurer - Cruiser with a difference - British & a triple
Gary's Bathtub - '99 BMW K1200RS in luvverly pillarbox red . Now been Waspycycled to Nuneaton
And the Latest Addition - a nice BMW G650 XCountry greenlaner - on long term loan to Boy Wonder

1996 Kawasaki KH125 Stroker

2000 TDM Mk2A - nicely Studleyfied - Modified by Masterbrewer, but we've fixed that now !

BMW K1300R

2004 TDM 900 in Silver/Blue - heated grips, MRA vary screen, Wilbers rear shock & engine bars to fit 

BMW S1000XR in white 


#36 dapleb

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 05:34 pm

QUOTE(sidestand @ Mon 31st Oct 2011, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And I've learned to respect other people's choice of bike as well


Well said. smile.gif

And for picking them up, search for a vid on the wee 5foot noubt skinny lass who does bike picking up demo's. Its all in the technique.....having broken bits of bone and in a river would obviously make this more critical. smile.gif
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#37 Geordie Guy

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 01:57 pm

QUOTE(sidestand @ Mon 31st Oct 2011, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And I've learned to respect other people's choice of bike as well - after all, we're all on two wheels - it's the fact that we ride a bike, not what we ride that really matters


Totally agree good.gif

But you have got to admitt the GS is a pile of Sh!te !
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#38 Rallyist

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 02:45 pm

QUOTE(Geordie Guy @ Tue 1st Nov 2011, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Totally agree good.gif

But you have got to admitt the GS is a pile of Sh!te !



Yea and you need a ladder to get to the top. rotflmmfao.gif

For a challenging summer try the

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#39 sidestand

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 08:48 pm

QUOTE(Geordie Guy @ Tue 1st Nov 2011, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Totally agree good.gif

But you have got to admitt the GS is a pile of Sh!te !


'course they're shite Ivan, that's why

1. They sell more than any other adventure bike
2. They've been around for 31 years now & are still going strong
3. Every other bike manufacturer is busting a gut trying to copy them tongue.gif

post-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gifpost-1-1152402501.jpgThe older I get, the better I was

96 MkII in yellow & silver with bluespots, braided lines, Remus 2 into 1, Hagon rear shock & fork springs, bashplate, heated grips,Motech pannier racks, Road Attacks, Jockoiler, Baglux tank cover & bag. Gone to a far better place - hasn't it Remo?
Another 96 Mk2 in yellow & silver - absolutely standard & pristine ( apart from a butchered rear mudguard - but I'm looking for a new one
'76 Suzuki GT500 Stroker in need of a rebuild
'80 Yamaha XT250 mudplugger
another '81 XT250
'91 BMW R80GS - this one really will do a RTW trip
'05 BMW K1200S - inline four with a shaft
'10 BMW R1200GSA Anniversary Edition
'02 Fazer 1000 - 4 carbs are better than 2 ! - water pump rebuilt by Mr Ramrod Engineering
'00 Triumph Adventurer - Cruiser with a difference - British & a triple
Gary's Bathtub - '99 BMW K1200RS in luvverly pillarbox red . Now been Waspycycled to Nuneaton
And the Latest Addition - a nice BMW G650 XCountry greenlaner - on long term loan to Boy Wonder

1996 Kawasaki KH125 Stroker

2000 TDM Mk2A - nicely Studleyfied - Modified by Masterbrewer, but we've fixed that now !

BMW K1300R

2004 TDM 900 in Silver/Blue - heated grips, MRA vary screen, Wilbers rear shock & engine bars to fit 

BMW S1000XR in white 


#40 Geordie Guy

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 07:12 am

QUOTE(sidestand @ Tue 1st Nov 2011, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
'course they're shite Ivan, that's why

1. They sell more than any other adventure bike
2. They've been around for 31 years now & are still going strong
3. Every other bike manufacturer is busting a gut trying to copy them tongue.gif



You know that 94% of all statistics are made up ! good.gif
I'm a TDM SNOB !!!!     "Adventure before Dementia"  

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