Awesome work on that bracket btw.
Edited by dapleb, 30 December 2011 - 11:29 am.
quotastic
2 votes
Reviving A -99 Tdm 850
Started by
anda3243
, May 10 2011 10:28 pm
154 replies to this topic
#61
pilninggas
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Posted 30 December 2011 - 11:27 am
In terms of the bolt, in the pic i can see it is 8.8, i think standard yamaha engine/chassis bolts will be 12.9s (higher tensile/shear strength) and so that's what you should look to fit. The surface finish will almost certainly be better (so they are less likely to corrode), you local bolt factor will have 12.9 on the shelf [ideally socket/allen head]
Awesome work on that bracket btw.
Awesome work on that bracket btw.
#62
anda3243
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Posted 30 December 2011 - 12:07 pm
QUOTE(Margus @ Fri 30th Dec 2011, 09:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Great progress. Reminds me of my last winter project: Fiting a Yamaha SZR 660 engine on a Polaris Explorer 400 ATV, wich turned out extreamely well.
In reality this took much more time than appers in the repport. The left side bracket required some grinding to clear a bolt on the cylinder head. And the odd shape of the bracked is because of bad job on the template.
#63
anda3243
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Posted 30 December 2011 - 12:15 pm
QUOTE(pilninggas @ Fri 30th Dec 2011, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In terms of the bolt, in the pic i can see it is 8.8, i think standard yamaha engine/chassis bolts will be 12.9s (higher tensile/shear strength) and so that's what you should look to fit. The surface finish will almost certainly be better (so they are less likely to corrode), you local bolt factor will have 12.9 on the shelf [ideally socket/allen head]
Awesome work on that bracket btw.
Awesome work on that bracket btw.
I know 12,9 should be better, or atleast 10,9. But the 1,25 pitch is realy uncommon in sweden. I called 5 different bolt stores, but noone had the right one. The 6:th one had this 8,8 bolt.
It is easy to buy correct threading tools, and then make a bolt. But it will probably be weaker than the 8,8.
#64
anda3243
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Posted 30 December 2011 - 05:20 pm
The Oil Tank
The oil tank was one of the things that I thought will fit right away. But no, some of the hoses did not. The frame is a little different and there is no room for the hose from the oil tank to the place were oil filter is. And the oil filling hose from the 900 oil tank will not fit, it would need to be modified. Also I want to be able to check the oil level in the tank. The oil stick thats comes with the 900 tank will not be an option.
Could it be possible to use the oil tank from the 850 on the 900 engine. All hoses would fit right away. A closer inspection revealed that the bolt pattern is wery similar on both engines.
So, first take appart the 850 oil tank. After 50 000 km there is quite much dirt in the tank. I think it is a good idea to open and clean it sometimes.
Then take the bottom part of oil tank of the engine. One can see the gear shift drum and balander axel. The balancer weights pases the same place as lover end of the conection rods.
Removing the same cover from 900 engine. Looks similar.
Here the 900 engine with a new gasket for the 850 engine.
When comparing the covers one can see that the oil groove is curved on the 900 engine. Otherwise the covers are identical. The oil groove is probably for lubrication the outgoing shaft bearing, wich is located further out on the 6 speed 900 engine.
When fitting the bottom of 850's oil tank to the 900 engine the oil groove is sticking "out" from under the cover. See center of the image.
I was thinking that the best solution would have been to modify the cover by adding material to it (welding), and then evening it to get a good sealing surface. I think this would have been easier and more durable than using the 900 oil tank. But I did not have a aluminium welder, and didnt think that it would be so hard to fit the 900 oil tank.
The oil tank was one of the things that I thought will fit right away. But no, some of the hoses did not. The frame is a little different and there is no room for the hose from the oil tank to the place were oil filter is. And the oil filling hose from the 900 oil tank will not fit, it would need to be modified. Also I want to be able to check the oil level in the tank. The oil stick thats comes with the 900 tank will not be an option.
Could it be possible to use the oil tank from the 850 on the 900 engine. All hoses would fit right away. A closer inspection revealed that the bolt pattern is wery similar on both engines.
So, first take appart the 850 oil tank. After 50 000 km there is quite much dirt in the tank. I think it is a good idea to open and clean it sometimes.
Then take the bottom part of oil tank of the engine. One can see the gear shift drum and balander axel. The balancer weights pases the same place as lover end of the conection rods.
Removing the same cover from 900 engine. Looks similar.
Here the 900 engine with a new gasket for the 850 engine.
When comparing the covers one can see that the oil groove is curved on the 900 engine. Otherwise the covers are identical. The oil groove is probably for lubrication the outgoing shaft bearing, wich is located further out on the 6 speed 900 engine.
When fitting the bottom of 850's oil tank to the 900 engine the oil groove is sticking "out" from under the cover. See center of the image.
I was thinking that the best solution would have been to modify the cover by adding material to it (welding), and then evening it to get a good sealing surface. I think this would have been easier and more durable than using the 900 oil tank. But I did not have a aluminium welder, and didnt think that it would be so hard to fit the 900 oil tank.
#65
dapleb
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Posted 30 December 2011 - 05:48 pm
Ughh so close yet....alorra work again!
What about trying a different oil tank from say a mkI TDM?
What about trying a different oil tank from say a mkI TDM?
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
#66
anda3243
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really likes Carpe
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Posted 30 December 2011 - 06:07 pm
There is no oil pressure sensor, so I wanted to be able to check the oil level in the oil tank. I will not be able to use the oil fil tube from the 900 oil tank, my new engine bracket was in the way. So it will not be possible to check oil level with the 900 oil stick.I am thinking of runing a transparant hose from the bottom of oil tank to the top. One will se the oil level in the hose.
Chopping of the oil filling tube from the 900 oil tank.
Trying it out and then cutting away some more.
More like it
I am using the oil filler cap assy from the 850, but with new hoses. It took quite many tryes to get it right. I do not remember if this is the final design.
Welded in a connection for the oil level hose at the bottom of the oil tank. One of my ugliest welds, and reason to use the 850 oil tank. But after some salant it didnt leak. You can also se the oil level sensor. It will not be used.
Painting it, and securing the oil level sensor cables. Then cleaning the tank so no residues from grinding remains in the tank. It looks terrible, but no one will se it. :/
The hose from the oil tank to the oil filter did not fit, nor the one from 850 or the 900. The swingarm and other parts were in the way.After sarching I found this one at Biltema. People knowing of Biltema may be a bit sceptical, but it holds until now.The thicker part is another hose that sliped on. It is for not waring against the swingarm.
The new oil hose installed.
Under the engine
Behind the engine
The connection from oil pump to the oil tank fitted without modificationThe oil level hose. The T coupling will intersect the breather hose from engine to the top of oil tank.
Oil level hose installed. I can see the oil level on the hose. One can see that the idle adjuster will not fit for the oil tank. One more reason to use the 850 oil tank.
One more picture. The new engine brackat mounted.
Chopping of the oil filling tube from the 900 oil tank.
Trying it out and then cutting away some more.
More like it
I am using the oil filler cap assy from the 850, but with new hoses. It took quite many tryes to get it right. I do not remember if this is the final design.
Welded in a connection for the oil level hose at the bottom of the oil tank. One of my ugliest welds, and reason to use the 850 oil tank. But after some salant it didnt leak. You can also se the oil level sensor. It will not be used.
Painting it, and securing the oil level sensor cables. Then cleaning the tank so no residues from grinding remains in the tank. It looks terrible, but no one will se it. :/
The hose from the oil tank to the oil filter did not fit, nor the one from 850 or the 900. The swingarm and other parts were in the way.After sarching I found this one at Biltema. People knowing of Biltema may be a bit sceptical, but it holds until now.The thicker part is another hose that sliped on. It is for not waring against the swingarm.
The new oil hose installed.
Under the engine
Behind the engine
The connection from oil pump to the oil tank fitted without modificationThe oil level hose. The T coupling will intersect the breather hose from engine to the top of oil tank.
Oil level hose installed. I can see the oil level on the hose. One can see that the idle adjuster will not fit for the oil tank. One more reason to use the 850 oil tank.
One more picture. The new engine brackat mounted.
Edited by anda3243, 30 December 2011 - 06:10 pm.
#67
wicklamulla
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is it Jizzy Rascal time yet.....?
- Location:Parish of Cruwys (pronounced 'Cruise' just loike Tom) Morchard, Mid Devon.
- TDM model: 1999
Posted 30 December 2011 - 11:18 pm
well done so far, thats alot of hard work.
spyball alarm/immob, bluespot brake calipers and Stainless hoses, Fournales air adjustable shock with Remote Resevoir, forks raised 10mm thru yokes, racetech linear fork springs in 15 wt oil, Kappa wingrack/luggage, heated grips, Kedo handguards, dual heat controller to power heated jacket liner and or pants!!, Stebel 136DB horn, K&N air filter, colour matched Baglux tank cover (magnetic tank bag modified to fit cover), osram +50% headloight bulbs, headlight protector,"NitramSpecial" parking loight, tail light indicators all running on LED's & incorporate "Lite Buddies", MK7 Scottoiler fitted, taller screen, 2-2 stainless steel CCC's, Devil stainless down pipes. MKI Renntec engine crash bars & sump guard.
engine changed july 2007 on a dyno run it made 79.1BHP / Torque 59.9Had a brief flirtation with a 1999 MKIIa but it blew an exaust valve on the M5 so was sold on to be repaired.
I loike tay and hang sangwiches !
www.kenhogantreeservices.co.uk
http://s33.photobuck...77/wickla/?sc=6
http://reg.imageshack.us/v_images.php
#68
dablik
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Posted 31 December 2011 - 10:01 am
Crikey that is a lot of hard work and dedication,,, well done anda,, and bloody interesting as well
Bigred mk1 R1 Calipers- Braided lines- Givi wing rack-Crash bungs- Hi vis bullets-PR2's- and a hoot to ride.
Quad 900 Silver Laser duo tech pipes-Scott oiler-Engine crash bars- Radiator mounted see me ring LED's-Datatool system 3 alarm -Centre stand- Extender fender-Renthal bars-Handle bar risers-Mirror extenders-BMW GS Handgaurds-Acumen uprated horn & Nautilus-Stainless steel Radiator guard-Givi wing rack-OEM screen-Yammy touring screen-MRA Vario-MRA Double bubble cut down for fast as fk riding-Tiger screen-Tank protector-Stomp grip panels-Optimate lead Gone to Heaven 
1991 MK1 in need of some TLC watch this space Gone to Heaven 
Sorted and on the Road Mick 
it's the bike that Jack built 
#69
dandywarhol
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Posted 31 December 2011 - 11:50 am
Really nice work and a lot of ingenuity.
Just curious why you're doing all this when the alloy frame 900 frame is lighter and can be made to handle quite well....
Just curious why you're doing all this when the alloy frame 900 frame is lighter and can be made to handle quite well....
1967 Yamaha TD1C 250, 2014 Kawasaki W800, 2011 Aprilia Tuono 1000 V4, 2020 Yamaha XSR900
"At the cutting edge of technophobia" 
#70
dapleb
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Posted 31 December 2011 - 12:49 pm
Read post #16!
Sounds loike it evolved from a tinker to needing a tad more done. I woulda personally gone for the head and barrels as the bottom end of the 9'er is alorra XTZ750 parts and the only other major diffs are the grr.box and if the clunk don't bother you that ain't mush of a diff and the lack of decent paint. But given anda got hold of a complete enjun, can understand the desire to plonk the whole lot in....and tolerate the inferior finish on a few enjun covers...rather than on an entire boike.
Sounds loike it evolved from a tinker to needing a tad more done. I woulda personally gone for the head and barrels as the bottom end of the 9'er is alorra XTZ750 parts and the only other major diffs are the grr.box and if the clunk don't bother you that ain't mush of a diff and the lack of decent paint. But given anda got hold of a complete enjun, can understand the desire to plonk the whole lot in....and tolerate the inferior finish on a few enjun covers...rather than on an entire boike.
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
#71
wicklamulla
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is it Jizzy Rascal time yet.....?
- Location:Parish of Cruwys (pronounced 'Cruise' just loike Tom) Morchard, Mid Devon.
- TDM model: 1999
Posted 31 December 2011 - 05:40 pm
MKII has a roomier chassis compared to the MKI and 900, that allied to a 900 enjun would make a lovely touring boike. fook thas alotta work though !!!
spyball alarm/immob, bluespot brake calipers and Stainless hoses, Fournales air adjustable shock with Remote Resevoir, forks raised 10mm thru yokes, racetech linear fork springs in 15 wt oil, Kappa wingrack/luggage, heated grips, Kedo handguards, dual heat controller to power heated jacket liner and or pants!!, Stebel 136DB horn, K&N air filter, colour matched Baglux tank cover (magnetic tank bag modified to fit cover), osram +50% headloight bulbs, headlight protector,"NitramSpecial" parking loight, tail light indicators all running on LED's & incorporate "Lite Buddies", MK7 Scottoiler fitted, taller screen, 2-2 stainless steel CCC's, Devil stainless down pipes. MKI Renntec engine crash bars & sump guard.
engine changed july 2007 on a dyno run it made 79.1BHP / Torque 59.9Had a brief flirtation with a 1999 MKIIa but it blew an exaust valve on the M5 so was sold on to be repaired.
I loike tay and hang sangwiches !
www.kenhogantreeservices.co.uk
http://s33.photobuck...77/wickla/?sc=6
http://reg.imageshack.us/v_images.php
#72
dandywarhol
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Posted 02 January 2012 - 08:53 am
QUOTE(dapleb @ Sat 31st Dec 2011, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Read post #16!
Sounds loike it evolved from a tinker to needing a tad more done. I woulda personally gone for the head and barrels as the bottom end of the 9'er is alorra XTZ750 parts and the only other major diffs are the grr.box and if the clunk don't bother you that ain't mush of a diff and the lack of decent paint. But given anda got hold of a complete enjun, can understand the desire to plonk the whole lot in....and tolerate the inferior finish on a few enjun covers...rather than on an entire boike.
Sounds loike it evolved from a tinker to needing a tad more done. I woulda personally gone for the head and barrels as the bottom end of the 9'er is alorra XTZ750 parts and the only other major diffs are the grr.box and if the clunk don't bother you that ain't mush of a diff and the lack of decent paint. But given anda got hold of a complete enjun, can understand the desire to plonk the whole lot in....and tolerate the inferior finish on a few enjun covers...rather than on an entire boike.
Ah, memory not wot is used to be...................................... I'm not knocking the project, nice bit of work and I'm sure the roomier frame will accommodate a standard lamp/Ikea display cabinet and all sorts
1967 Yamaha TD1C 250, 2014 Kawasaki W800, 2011 Aprilia Tuono 1000 V4, 2020 Yamaha XSR900
"At the cutting edge of technophobia"
#73
wicklamulla
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- Supporting Member(thanks)
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is it Jizzy Rascal time yet.....?
- Location:Parish of Cruwys (pronounced 'Cruise' just loike Tom) Morchard, Mid Devon.
- TDM model: 1999
Posted 02 January 2012 - 03:02 pm
QUOTE(dandywarhol @ Mon 2nd Jan 2012, 08:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ah, memory not wot is used to be...................................... I'm not knocking the project, nice bit of work and I'm sure the roomier frame will accommodate a standard lamp/Ikea display cabinet and all sorts
well it would on your old MKII's that ya used to own but not on mine as i need and loike the extra 'leg room', whereas you dinnae need it pal
spyball alarm/immob, bluespot brake calipers and Stainless hoses, Fournales air adjustable shock with Remote Resevoir, forks raised 10mm thru yokes, racetech linear fork springs in 15 wt oil, Kappa wingrack/luggage, heated grips, Kedo handguards, dual heat controller to power heated jacket liner and or pants!!, Stebel 136DB horn, K&N air filter, colour matched Baglux tank cover (magnetic tank bag modified to fit cover), osram +50% headloight bulbs, headlight protector,"NitramSpecial" parking loight, tail light indicators all running on LED's & incorporate "Lite Buddies", MK7 Scottoiler fitted, taller screen, 2-2 stainless steel CCC's, Devil stainless down pipes. MKI Renntec engine crash bars & sump guard.
engine changed july 2007 on a dyno run it made 79.1BHP / Torque 59.9Had a brief flirtation with a 1999 MKIIa but it blew an exaust valve on the M5 so was sold on to be repaired.
I loike tay and hang sangwiches !
www.kenhogantreeservices.co.uk
http://s33.photobuck...77/wickla/?sc=6
http://reg.imageshack.us/v_images.php
#74
dandywarhol
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Posted 02 January 2012 - 04:16 pm
QUOTE(wicklamulla @ Mon 2nd Jan 2012, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
well it would on your old MKII's that ya used to own but not on mine as i need and loike the extra 'leg room', whereas you dinnae need it pal
Mwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwahhhhhhha
Happy NY Wickla.
1967 Yamaha TD1C 250, 2014 Kawasaki W800, 2011 Aprilia Tuono 1000 V4, 2020 Yamaha XSR900
"At the cutting edge of technophobia"
#75
anda3243
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- TDM model: 1999
Posted 03 January 2012 - 08:08 pm
Happy new year
It has some good qualities, but I have only a Honda cb900f from -81 to compare
A bigger As I will explain in comming posts, a bigger front sprocket is used. This gives a extreamly high 6:th gear, wich I like on straighter and faster roads. There is no real need to use the top gear in speeds under 90 km/h
wicklamulla and dandywarhol, I do not understand what you are talking about.
a new post comming soon
QUOTE(wicklamulla @ Sat 31st Dec 2011, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
MKII has a roomier chassis compared to the MKI and 900, that allied to a 900 enjun would make a lovely touring boike. fook thas alotta work though !!!
It has some good qualities, but I have only a Honda cb900f from -81 to compare
A bigger As I will explain in comming posts, a bigger front sprocket is used. This gives a extreamly high 6:th gear, wich I like on straighter and faster roads. There is no real need to use the top gear in speeds under 90 km/h
wicklamulla and dandywarhol, I do not understand what you are talking about.
a new post comming soon
Edited by anda3243, 03 January 2012 - 08:13 pm.
#76
dapleb
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Monkey Boy
- Location:The home of morris dancin
- TDM model: 1990
Posted 03 January 2012 - 08:31 pm
QUOTE(anda3243 @ Tue 3rd Jan 2012, 08:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
wicklamulla and dandywarhol, I do not understand what you are talking about.
They is confuzzling for sure them two anda.
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117
Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.
Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.
#77
anda3243
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- Member
- 89 posts
really likes Carpe
- Location:Stockholm
- TDM model: 1999
Posted 03 January 2012 - 10:45 pm
More about the oil tank
There is a bolt sticking up from the engine cover on the 900 engine. I have no good pictures of it. Here is one of the cover removed, it is the bolt hole in the middle of the cover.
The scull of this bolt interfered with my beautifully welded connection. I was somehow able to make things fit anyway.
There is a bolt sticking up from the engine cover on the 900 engine. I have no good pictures of it. Here is one of the cover removed, it is the bolt hole in the middle of the cover.
The scull of this bolt interfered with my beautifully welded connection. I was somehow able to make things fit anyway.
#78
anda3243
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- Member
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really likes Carpe
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- TDM model: 1999
Posted 03 January 2012 - 11:12 pm
Checking the valve clearances while I have easy access. Keeping track of clearances with excell.
The bearing journals were ok, minimal with wear on all parts. Howto adjust valve clearance is explained in many other threads, so I will not.
Enjoy the colorful table cloth
Then there is this. Exhaust gas recycling? There were no such things on the 850, so I had nowhere to connect it. I decided to plug it.
First attempt with a plugged piece of hose did not work. It interferes with the fan. :/
It must be smaller. So I cut of the connection
Threaded the hole in the cover with M10 x 1,5 (regular metric 10 mm). And prepared a bolt with correct length and a exit for the thread under the skull.
Sealed it with heat resistant sealant and torqued down.
Then assemble the reed valves and such back into the valve cover. The head of the bolt is not interfering with the fan.
The bearing journals were ok, minimal with wear on all parts. Howto adjust valve clearance is explained in many other threads, so I will not.
Enjoy the colorful table cloth
Then there is this. Exhaust gas recycling? There were no such things on the 850, so I had nowhere to connect it. I decided to plug it.
First attempt with a plugged piece of hose did not work. It interferes with the fan. :/
It must be smaller. So I cut of the connection
Threaded the hole in the cover with M10 x 1,5 (regular metric 10 mm). And prepared a bolt with correct length and a exit for the thread under the skull.
Sealed it with heat resistant sealant and torqued down.
Then assemble the reed valves and such back into the valve cover. The head of the bolt is not interfering with the fan.
#79
AndyJohn
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- Member
- 5 posts
arrived on last train
- TDM model: 2004
Posted 04 January 2012 - 02:22 pm
QUOTE(anda3243 @ Sat 28th May 2011, 11:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for the tip. I will check the drain boltThe posting is a bit behind the actual work. The previous owner claimed the stem seals were bad, but it's not only the seals, the valve guides feels worn too.I will at least check the condition of the piston rings before I use them. Good tip there.Nice report threre. I saw that you were replacing the bearings for steering. On what milage did you do that?The posting is draging behind the actual work. My plan from the beginning vas to change the stem seals. Wich means removing the cylinder head, dissasembling it and putting everything together again. But it wasent that easy.And a question. Is the centrum-centrum distance on carbs on the 850 the same as the centrum-centrum distance of the intakes on the 900?
Hi, regarding cenre points on 850-900, where the gas goes in. Yes they are the same, but the mounting for the carbs is quite different from the injection system
#80
anda3243
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Posted 04 January 2012 - 07:21 pm
Thank you for the stars It keeps me going
Yes, the centre distances turned out to bee the same. The next post will be about inlet manifolds
It keeps me goingQUOTE(AndyJohn @ Wed 4th Jan 2012, 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi, regarding cenre points on 850-900, where the gas goes in. Yes they are the same, but the mounting for the carbs is quite different from the injection system
Yes, the centre distances turned out to bee the same. The next post will be about inlet manifolds
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