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Another Loose Sprocket Nut

Started by ChrisG , Jun 10 2007 05:08 pm

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#41 m3psm

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 05:59 pm

Is this a regular problem? I'm about to get a new chain and sprocket for my Mk1.

I bought the TDM as a replacement for my ZZR1100 after the front sprocket came off at 120 doing untold damage and trying its best to spit me off. Don't ever need to experience that again unsure.gif

I pressume a new lock washer, locktight and correct torque setting will prevent any issues???
Ride it like you stole it!
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Riding since 1986. First bike - SS50, fastest bike - ZZR1100, best bike riden - Ducati 900SS, next must-have bike - Moto Guzzi 1100 Sport, next everyday bike - TDM900, worst bike - Kwak GT750, bike I put most mileage on - GSX55ES (100k+ couriering), scariest bike - '85 GSX1100 (shocking brakes), best all round bike - TDM850 (current bike), bike I'll never own - any custom, favourite bike - current TDM850 Mk1, favourite accessory - gaffa tape.

#42 Jez

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 08:57 pm

QUOTE(GuyGraham @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
2 MkII's and I've not had this problem


That's a relief banana.gif , I was starting to wonder if I should check mine.

QUOTE(m3psm @ Fri 15th Jun 2007, 06:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I bought the TDM as a replacement for my ZZR1100 after the front sprocket came off at 120


That's uncanny. I had the same happen on a ZX10. Got away with it though - it just spun on the shaft.
Red and black '96. Blue spot Thunderace calipers with braided two-line front hoses - 'kin brill. 17 incher out front. Renthal street/trail bars - vibe free. 1150GS brush guards. HIDs - niiiiice. Stebel Magnum - crikey. Nonfango hard luggage. Nexxus. SW-Motech center stand. Had a Powerbronze tall screen - too noisy - went back to standard.

Stealth Diamond Black 900 with lurvely black frame. GS brush guards. HotGrips on a relay - cos I keep forgetting. SW-Motech center stand and engine bars. LED rear light. Vario set to min. 17 incher. PR2s.

All now a fond (very fond) memory. Maybe again some day.

#43 TonyDevil

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 09:05 pm

QUOTE(m3psm @ Fri 15th Jun 2007, 06:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I pressume a new lock washer, locktight and correct torque setting will prevent any issues???

i believe so yes good.gif

"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips
current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, 2003 TDM900=commuter, 2005 TDM900=unmolested.  Gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125
If a strange looking truck driver honks at you & gives you the thumbs up, its could be me  :good:

#44 m3psm

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 09:07 pm

QUOTE(Toneski @ Fri 15th Jun 2007, 09:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i believe so yes good.gif

Cheers wink.gif
Ride it like you stole it!
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Riding since 1986. First bike - SS50, fastest bike - ZZR1100, best bike riden - Ducati 900SS, next must-have bike - Moto Guzzi 1100 Sport, next everyday bike - TDM900, worst bike - Kwak GT750, bike I put most mileage on - GSX55ES (100k+ couriering), scariest bike - '85 GSX1100 (shocking brakes), best all round bike - TDM850 (current bike), bike I'll never own - any custom, favourite bike - current TDM850 Mk1, favourite accessory - gaffa tape.

#45 ChrisG

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 09:10 pm

I suspect my problems stem from not having done the nut up tight enough when I replaced the sprocket some years back. General consesus seems to be to use a genuine Yamaha sprocket rather than an aftermarket.

1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now :(
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.

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#46 Guest_GuyGraham_*

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 09:14 pm

QUOTE(Toneski @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 09:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
the thread on my output shaft is already damaged from when the sprocket jumped the first time
when it came loose in Germany it didnt turn
it just pulled over the thread, even tho it was torqued correctly


Sounds to me as though it came loose from loss of clamping pressure (not the nut coming loose) and then damaged the thread which allowed the nut to 'jump' the thread

there's no way it jumped the thread whilst it was still tight.

So, loctite it onto the shaft with 638, which will prevent the rocking back and forth, will will prevent the loss of clamping pressure, which will prevent the nut jumping over threads and damaging them

I know its too late for you Toneski, but for others it is not


QUOTE(ChrisG @ Fri 15th Jun 2007, 09:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I suspect my problems stem from not having done the nut up tight enough when I replaced the sprocket some years back. General consesus seems to be to use a genuine Yamaha sprocket rather than an aftermarket.



Cheap sprockets with excess clearance between it and the splined shaft would accelerate the wear effect of the sprocket rocking back and forth

#47 m3psm

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 09:15 pm

For the price of a front sprocket I can stretch to a genuine one. On the kwack the problem was re-using the old lock washer. They tear on the old fold, then the torque settings and locktite alone can't hold it.
Ride it like you stole it!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Riding since 1986. First bike - SS50, fastest bike - ZZR1100, best bike riden - Ducati 900SS, next must-have bike - Moto Guzzi 1100 Sport, next everyday bike - TDM900, worst bike - Kwak GT750, bike I put most mileage on - GSX55ES (100k+ couriering), scariest bike - '85 GSX1100 (shocking brakes), best all round bike - TDM850 (current bike), bike I'll never own - any custom, favourite bike - current TDM850 Mk1, favourite accessory - gaffa tape.

#48 TonyDevil

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 10:17 pm

QUOTE(GuyGraham @ Fri 15th Jun 2007, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, loctite it onto the shaft with 638, which will Sounds to me as though it came loose from loss of clamping pressure (not the nut coming loose) and then damaged the thread which allowed the nut to 'jump' the thread

there's no way it jumped the thread whilst it was still tight.

sorry GG, buts thats exactly whats happened, its pulled over the thread, i can see that from the damage to the nut
trying to find where i put the damaged nut so i can post a pic
QUOTE(GuyGraham @ Fri 15th Jun 2007, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, loctite it onto the shaft with 638, which will prevent the rocking back and forth, will will prevent the loss of clamping pressure, which will prevent the nut jumping over threads and damaging them

I know its too late for you Toneski, but for others it is not
Cheap sprockets with excess clearance between it and the splined shaft would accelerate the wear effect of the sprocket rocking back and forth

there does seem to be less movement on the splines with genuine yammie sprocket

"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips
current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, 2003 TDM900=commuter, 2005 TDM900=unmolested.  Gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125
If a strange looking truck driver honks at you & gives you the thumbs up, its could be me  :good:

#49 ChrisG

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 07:15 am

QUOTE(Toneski @ Fri 15th Jun 2007, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
there does seem to be less movement on the splines with genuine yammie sprocket


There's gonna be feck all movement on mine by the time I've finished with that locktight.

Hope this sun holds out as I'm about to go and attack my nut with a dremmel unsure.gif

1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now :(
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.

post-1-1152402501.jpgpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif

#50 Pict

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 07:45 am

QUOTE(ChrisG @ Tue 12th Jun 2007, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Halfords only sell sockets up to 32mm

The bigger branches sell larger sizes, including tough ones at about £7-8 that fit a half-inch square ratchet or an impact driver - maybe another way to attack tight nuts?

Dinotrike.jpg "It's a TDM, Jim, but not as we know it"

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#51 ChrisG

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 09:48 am

Right, I've performed a bit of grevious dremmely harm to the front sprocket nut



Note the distinct lack of thread on the inside.

I've cleaned up the thread on the output shaft and now the new nut goes on smoothly, however...

Am I right in saying the curve back on the my sprocket indicates I should fit a new chain and sprockets?



I guess nowhere's likely to have a set in stock that I can collect so I think I'm gonna have to put it back together with the old sprocket and only locktight the nut so when I get the new sprocket I can still take the old one off, then locktight the hell out of the new one.
edit: Tried Bykebits, Infinity and Woking Yamaha, nothing in stock sad.gif

Recomendations for new chain? I'm thinking genuine Yam front sprocket, DID X ring and whatever Fowlers want to sell me for the rear.


edit: almost forgot, how tight should the fronty sprocket fit on the splines? Mine can rotate by a noticable amount, which could mean it allows it to slide around and wear.

Edited by ChrisG, 16 June 2007 - 10:31 am.

1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now :(
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.

post-1-1152402501.jpgpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif

#52 TonyDevil

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 10:37 am

QUOTE(ChrisG @ Sat 16th Jun 2007, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Note the distinct lack of thread on the inside.same as what happend to mine

I guess nowhere's likely to have a set in stock that I can collect so I think I'm gonna have to put it back together with the old sprocket and only locktight the nut so when I get the new sprocket I can still take the old one off, then locktight the hell out of the new one.
yes that needs replacing, i would wait for a genuine yam one, but if desperate try "Motorcycle Parts Centre in Reading 01189594341". they wont have a genuine yammie one in stock, but they will have an after market
Recomendations for new chain? I'm thinking genuine Yam front sprocket, DID X ring and whatever Fowlers want to sell me for the rear.thats what i went for
edit: almost forgot, how tight should the fronty sprocket fit on the splines? Mine can rotate by a noticable amount, which could mean it allows it to slide around and wear.dunno, assume not much at all


is it possible the splines can wear over time?

"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips
current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, 2003 TDM900=commuter, 2005 TDM900=unmolested.  Gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125
If a strange looking truck driver honks at you & gives you the thumbs up, its could be me  :good:

#53 jht

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 10:38 am

Output shaft replacement class anyone.......... blink.gif unsure.gif rolleyes.gif
Done: Homo sap navigation/ twisty thing on bars to make it go vroom/ grabby thing to make it stop (in front of twisty thing)/ 'leccy things front and rear to make it glow at night/ Sucky + drippy oiler thing to keep chains moist (!!) / Laser Pro Stock Race pipes / bleeding ear drums (see previous mod)
To do: Educate homo sap nav system to operate twisty + grabby things/ get ear plugs

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#54 ChrisG

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 10:43 am

I'm favouring the stick it back together now and order the correct bits from Fowlers approach. Just tried several places and nothing in stock so may as well take the time to get the right bits.

Ordinarily I'd leave it in peices in the garage for a week but I could do with using it for commuting for a couple of weeks to ckeep the mileage down on the cage.

QUOTE(jht @ Sat 16th Jun 2007, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Output shaft replacement class anyone.......... blink.gif unsure.gif rolleyes.gif


That's gonna need more than 3 packs of hobnobs, 2 packs of Jaffa cakes a pack of jammie dodgers, and pack of cookies! blink.gif

Edited by ChrisG, 16 June 2007 - 10:47 am.

1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now :(
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.

post-1-1152402501.jpgpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif

#55 TonyDevil

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 11:17 am

QUOTE(ChrisG @ Sat 16th Jun 2007, 11:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(jht @ Sat 16th Jun 2007, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Output shaft replacement class anyone.......... blink.gif unsure.gif rolleyes.gif

That's gonna need more than 3 packs of hobnobs, 2 packs of Jaffa cakes a pack of jammie dodgers, and pack of cookies! blink.gif

....and more than a day

but i'm game for a laugh good.gif

"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips
current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, 2003 TDM900=commuter, 2005 TDM900=unmolested.  Gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125
If a strange looking truck driver honks at you & gives you the thumbs up, its could be me  :good:

#56 ChrisG

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 11:47 am

Hmmm, Fowlers will only do genuine Yamaha parts, is the X-ring going to be noticable better than the genuine one?

Edited by ChrisG, 16 June 2007 - 11:48 am.

1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now :(
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.

post-1-1152402501.jpgpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif

#57 m3psm

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 11:54 am

I've never had or seen a spline wear when the sprocket was securely fixed in place. I think the wear is more likely because the sprocket was moving around on the shaft side to side after the nut came loose.

The teeth on the front sprocket are well worn. The rears hook over like that first with the chain being out of adjustment. This then stretches the chain more and then starts to hook the teeth on the front sprocket.

My rears have hooked and chain is stretching now so need to replace it fairly sharpish because it'll put more strain on the sprocket nut as the chain wont seat properly on the sprocket.

The easiest way to tell if you have hooked sprockets is to roll the bike backwards. If it's past it's best you'll hear a clicking noise where the chain is jumping into place.
Ride it like you stole it!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Riding since 1986. First bike - SS50, fastest bike - ZZR1100, best bike riden - Ducati 900SS, next must-have bike - Moto Guzzi 1100 Sport, next everyday bike - TDM900, worst bike - Kwak GT750, bike I put most mileage on - GSX55ES (100k+ couriering), scariest bike - '85 GSX1100 (shocking brakes), best all round bike - TDM850 (current bike), bike I'll never own - any custom, favourite bike - current TDM850 Mk1, favourite accessory - gaffa tape.

#58 ChrisG

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 12:44 pm

Yikes, genuine yam front sprocket is nearly £50 compared to less than a tenner for a pattern one, and it's going to take a week as Fowlers haven't got any in stock.

Oh well, it's on order and my x-ring chain and pattern rear sprocket are on thier way form M&P

1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now :(
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.

post-1-1152402501.jpgpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif

#59 Jez

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 03:46 pm

QUOTE(ChrisG @ Sat 16th Jun 2007, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Recomendations for new chain? I'm thinking genuine Yam front sprocket, DID X ring and whatever Fowlers want to sell me for the rear.


Last change I bought a super dooper DID X-ring kit from M&P - cost about £120. Has been on now for nearly 5k miles and adjusted just once at 1k miles. (BTW did I hear that DID do a chain that is guaranteed for 25k miles, or was I dreaming?)

I do beleive in investing in good chain and i have never bought genuine in my life.

As for the front sprocket I cannot comment as I have a mk2 but is it possible to pack out any gap behind the sprocket with extra locking washers or plain ones?
Red and black '96. Blue spot Thunderace calipers with braided two-line front hoses - 'kin brill. 17 incher out front. Renthal street/trail bars - vibe free. 1150GS brush guards. HIDs - niiiiice. Stebel Magnum - crikey. Nonfango hard luggage. Nexxus. SW-Motech center stand. Had a Powerbronze tall screen - too noisy - went back to standard.

Stealth Diamond Black 900 with lurvely black frame. GS brush guards. HotGrips on a relay - cos I keep forgetting. SW-Motech center stand and engine bars. LED rear light. Vario set to min. 17 incher. PR2s.

All now a fond (very fond) memory. Maybe again some day.

#60 ChrisG

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 05:37 pm

QUOTE(Jez @ Sat 16th Jun 2007, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As for the front sprocket I cannot comment as I have a mk2 but is it possible to pack out any gap behind the sprocket with extra locking washers or plain ones?


Not convinced about this sprocket thickness isue but going for a Yam one just in case. Sprocket sits on the splines and there's a section of shaft behind, so the shoulder it sits against is probably too small to have another washer on.



I had 2 washers between the sprocket and the nut though so that should have the same effect as a thicker sprocket.

I've put the old sprocket back on for the time being with a new nut and locktight on the nut only. Should have the new chain and sprockets by next weekend which should be less than 700 miles away, I'll then use the locktight on the sprocket as well and accept that I'll need a bearing puller to get it off again.

The old chain is a DID X-ring has been on for 25-30,000 miles (with a scott oiler)

1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now :(
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.

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