Screens

He-he-he... "death penalty"... eh... don't think so, but Ok...
"Speeds of 140 km/h"... well, I have seen it on the meter... have to admit that. Haven't been there with MRA Vario fitted, though. So how it felt behind the Vario, I can't tell.

Did this speed with MRA double bubble fitted and that screen didn't help much out of the wind, but it was bearable...

SECDEM seems to move away the wind better than MRA Vario and double bubble at speeds up to 130 at least... I sure can feel the wind against my shoulders, but I have no problems moving my arm from the handlebar, scratch myself in the back of my neck if I want to and move it back to the handlebar without any feeling that someone og something trying to rip the arm of my torso. If you know what I mean?

I feel safe and comfortable behind the SECDEM screen. The wind that hits my helmet is like a smooth stream of air and I can move my head from side to side without any unpleasant wind pressure.
I guess that's all I can say… This screen suits me just fine.
Noise was not an issue in my assessments of the screens I have. Why? Because I use EARfoon earplugs (made in The Netherlands BTW...).

Edited by AJ_Blizzard, 12 July 2007 - 09:24 pm.

sounds loike the Secdem is the winner

I know what you mean with the armrip feeling, but do you estimate the shoulder pressure bigger with your MRA vario or with the Secdem?

In this company film you can see in detail how they made your Earmo (earfoon) earplugs: http://www.earmo.com/bedrijfsfilm.php

On the bike I have used custom made earplugs, but generally they don't stay fit once I put my helmet on. Right now I use "one size fits a lot of folks" general earplugs from comfoor:

They damp sound better than the customized plugs I had first and stay in forever without discomfort. They also happen to fit the little speakers I have with the Neckmike I use to make phonecalls en listen to radio / MP3 via the GSM.

In the Fokker I use Elacin soft customized earplugs which I get for free from the boss. We tested different brands and these got out as best for us. Soon we'll be getting ANR headsets though, which is about time... The Elacin earplugs are amazingly good in the airplane, able to filter out just the noise we don't want without forcing me to turn up the intercom / radio volumes too much. On the bike I don't mind other noises being filtered out a bit more, but while flying it's different. I believe the customized plugs I got when I worked on the platform were Earmo as well, not sure. I tried using the Elacin plugs on the bike, but my ears are always pushed a bit backwards by my helmet, causing them to leak noise. So I'm sticking with the comfoor plugs on the bike. If I ever get customized plugs for the bike again, I will let the goo get hard with my helmet on I think...

Vincent, did you order your secdem already?

Yep, I did... At Fanbazar. The link you provided.
I have informed within the Netherlands and most stores hesitate a lot in doing business with the French. So that's why I ordered by credit-card at this webshop. (I can always request refunds from VISA)

Pressure, the pressure on the shoulders isn't a problem. It is the turbulance I want to get rid off (as much as possible)

Pilots, I love to fly! As well as with the simulator as for real

Sound, I use the comfoor custom made. Perfect fit. No worries after 4 hours of driving. Still good feedback of the surroundings and offcourse intercom/mp3/gsm/gps

Vincent

When I got my TDM850 it had some sort of cheapo flip top touring screen fitted which did cause a fair degree of head bufetting and noise, so I took it off and fitted a standard screen. This reduced the noise and buffeting but put a lot more wind pressure on the upper body. I then got an MRA touring screen which seemed to work well, ie: not much buffeting and better upper body protection. However it was still noisy, so I now wear earplugs, hence the previous flippant remarks.
Before the TDM I had a vfr 750 with double bubble screen. That was superb. There was no more discomfort at 120 mph than there was at 70. Really regretted getting rid of it, but I was getting too old, aching wrists and shoulder , eyesite and reactions not up to it either.
I recently rode my mates Suzuki SV650 with double bubble screen and then, immediately after, rode my TDM. The wind noise was noticeably much more on the TDM. So is a double bubble screen the answer?
Could helmet design have something to do with the noise/turbulence problem? Are they designed more for the sports riding position- head slightly down- rather than the more upright TDM one. I have a Roof Diversion helmet , which is supposed to be quiet, but is not on the TDM. I also have a BMW System 4 , which was very noisy on the vfr, but not that bad on the TDM. I suppose it's just mix and match and see what suits. By the way, does anyone know how to change the visor on a system 4?
John

Enjoyed the earfoon demo. They're expensive, I guess?

I use silicon "multi-mushroom" type plugs like your comfoor ones - mine are available from travel centres (e.g airport shops) and some supermarkets. They're probably not quite as good as yours, but adequate most of the time. I found the original stems about 2mm too long for helmet comfort.

I find the exact opposite! We have Nitro N500V helmets that are noisy when in a head down (relaxed and more comfortable) position and quieter when you lift up which I suppose is where your head would be if you were leaning forward on low bars and had to adjust eyesight line to look straight ahead. So I have the option of comfort and noise or quiet and aching neck. I have a standard MkII screen which I was considering cutting the top off as somebody mentioned on another thread to see if things improve.

With the right screen (albeit extra low or extra high, whatever works for you) and a proper helmet you shouldn't really need earplugs.
I bought a BMW System V helmet which is really quiet on both my TDM (low OE screen) and TDM (tiny fly-screen). A huge contrast with my (otherwise really good) Caberg Justissimo which I always used with earplugs.

I found earplugs really effective, it's just yet another annoying thing you need to do in the already long list of rituals involving bike gear, locks, strapping on luggage and other preparations before one is finally able to depart on a bike.

There's not a big differnce, but the wind pressure in general seems smoother against my shoulders with Secdem; less turbulence and buffeting... at least when I'm riding with no traffic in front of me. Riding behind cars will always produce a certain amount of turbulence, no matter which sceen you use, I suppose...

Edited by AJ_Blizzard, 15 July 2007 - 12:35 pm.

What we really need is a small wind-tunnel where screen combinations could really be tested. More importantly helmets could be compared for how much wind noise they generate.
Ive got the knackered motor mower for power, all I need now is the 6 blade, 5 foot fan, a big garden shed, and some brave volunteers.

Earlier in this thread, I posted a msg about another design of MRA Double Bubble Screen, available in the UK at:

http://www.bikehps.c..._Yamaha_12.html

Ordered one last week, and fitted at the weekend. So far, absolutely chuffed to bits with it. Unusual design with a flattened top edge, and a steeper rake on the upper bubble - sort of 'wedge' on top of a 'bubble' (I know, I know, I'm opening myself up to all sorts of ridicule for that description, but I can't think of a better one!).

Screen seems to give much more protection that the OEM one, but without the turbulence associated with taller screens and (to a certain extent) the MRA Vario Screen. The way the 'wedge' seems to work is to throw the airflow more away to the sides, while the flatter top edge smooths the flow over shoulders/helmet.

Haven't tested much above 70mph yet (lack of time to get out to some decent roads), but seems great up to those speeds.

I'll probably put the Yamaha Touring Screen and MRA Vario up for sale soon if anybody interesed?!

Photos of the new screen for anyone interested.... (taken on my phone, apologies for cr@p resolution - but at least I didn't have to worry about the dirt showing up........ )










PS - Bloody Hell - Posted Piccies at first attempt. Whoohoo!!

Edited by whisty4760, 16 July 2007 - 07:44 pm.

Interesting, Whisty. Could you check the URL for the supplier though - appears to be a broken link.

Cheers Pict - page must have moved since my first post. Link Editted - TDM 900 is right at the bottom of the page.

This LINK should work. Look at the bottom off the page.

Thanks for repairs, L&W. Looks a nice screen - angular "wedge" even a bit KTM-trendy??

Been flying around dodging thunderstorms and stuff the last few days, time to do some relaxing stuff again liking typing replies .

Concerning earplugs, even with no screen (the most quiet solution) and a proper fitting, quality (quiet) helmet you STILL need earplugs to prevent permanent hearing damage. It might be (a lot) less noticeable, but the db's are still high enough to rock those tiny frequency-catching hairs back and forth quite a lot to make them brake off more and more (the tiny ones first I believe because they resonate to faster moving frequencies). Compare it to folding an aluminum or tin plate a couple of times until it brakes. Depending on how much you'll ride this will manifest itself at a later age by loosing frequency ranges, not being able to participate in a conversation while in a crowd anymore and eventually a constant ringing in your ears which will never go away. Wear those earplugs until helmet manufacturers finally come up with some integrated solution (thinking about those fighter / helicopter helmet solutions which have passive noise reduction built in because of the radio / intercom speakers).

Your head angle (in relation to the wind / horizon) doesn't really change on a sportier bike, yet your neck will have to be twisted more upwards to put that helmet in the same angle that you want / need to see the road. My neck and shoulders were tortured a bit more on my Sprint ST because of that, part of the reason to go back to "allroads" again. The Sprint screen (stock), like on the VFR, was also amazingly quiet. This was because it was very low. It was able to be lower because you compensate by that (on a VFR / Sprint) by leaning forward with your upper body. A lower screen, especially at a shallow angle, will always have less turbulence / noise than a taller one (except when you sit behind it).

I have a BMW system 4 helmet as well, but after using it for about 4 intensive years it was asking for replacement. I bought a Shoei Multitec flipup, which is a lot more quiet than the BMW helmet. Partly I guess because it fits like new (duh!) and because it has a slimmer profile and is closed around and below the ears much better (yet it has a lot of room besides the ears, so no pressure directly on them). The "whisper kit" probably helps a lot as well. The helmet includes the whisper kit, as well as a Pinlock visor (with the gel edge, unlike the Nolan ones) and an extra gradually tinted visor:









It has really good ventilation as well. So if it happens to fit your head properly, then I can really recommend this helmet. The lower rumbling sound I had with the BMW system 4 is gone now, left is standard wind blasting sound... just without the rumble (hope that is clear enough.... it's just noticeably more quiet and cooler).

Customized earplugs are very reasonably priced nowadays, you often find discounted offers at motorfairs. With a couple of brands you can also get them with built in speakers (for MP3 or GPS). I would recommend the soft versions and personally, depending on your ear shape, try to get the mold shape with the helmet on (or ears pressed a bit backwards in my case).

The Secdem screen is sounding more and more like a very interesting additional accessory for my 1.90 meters. Curious to hear Vincent's experience once he gets his (although he is taller).

Not the best weather to fly around europe!

Earplugs with built-in speakers... No way... You must have some feedback of traffic around you. And indeed: Be careful with your ear, you only have two...

The screen shoud arrive wednesday or thursday, so keep you posted. The new MRA mentioned here, is more for somewhat smaller persons I think.

Vincent

We have a company here in Oz that goes to all the big bike shows, world superbikes and motogp that does the earmold plugs. They can also make them with speakers in them.

http://www.earmold.com.au/

Edited by Sparra, 17 July 2007 - 11:08 pm.

Well, it certainly is more adventurous with this weather. Curious to hear your experience (and see the pics of course). Which MRA do you mean? The variotouring screen with the adjustable flip (which I have) is better I think if you are over 1.90m. If you are shorter the turbulent boundary layer will be too high and aimed at your helmet. The MRA double bubble seems higher and steeper than the secdem, so either good for veeeery short people or really tall folks, I think.

If you like we can meet up once, swap bikes and directly compare the Secdem with the MRA variotouring? I'm usually in the neighborhood of either Almere or Schiphol airport.