31 replies to this topic

[JBX]

Electronic injection on bikes is not a thing of the 21st century.

The first one was on a French   125cc 2 strokes in the early 70', then a 350cc (Motobécane).

In 1980 the first real production bike with electronic injection, the Z1000.

 

Yeah, 5V on an injector, very funny ! Some people don't know how to spend their time...

Edited by JBX, 10 April 2018 - 05:53 pm.

[fixitsan]

 

Remember the Diag Mode #9 is not there just to give a nice display !

 

According to some web sites "09Battery voltage. Should display 12.0 min, activate the "Engine Stop" switch to check."

 

It is just a nice display isn't it ?

 

Anyhow, a bit more research and this 68HC916 based ECU from Denso is very similar to the unit in the GSXR and the Kawa ZX12 Ninja, among lots of bikes of the same era..... Same processors, almost identical mosfet drives for injectors etc etc

 

They use mostly a small buck convertor or a linear voltage regulator to produce their 5V rail, which implies a dropout of a minimum of 2V. In theory they *should* work still at 7V, but probably not reliably so until 7.5V. As for the injectors firing at that voltage and the coils producing a thick spark I'm not so sure about that.

 

Just for the sake of confirmation bias (I) I googled 'gsxr cold start problem' and 'ZX12R cold start problem' and that was interesting !

[fixitsan]

I just remembered, my battery is weak but is only a problem in the cold. A telltale is that when I crank it and it doesn't start straight away in the cold the dash clock resets the time to 12:00

[dapleb]

Any joy hector?

[dandywarhol]

A lot of car (auto) injectors work with a 5v feed and are opened by earthing through a mosfet in the ECU

[fixitsan]

A lot of car (auto) injectors work with a 5v feed and are opened by earthing through a mosfet in the ECU

 

Wow that is a new one on me...unless you mean that they operate at 5V on a bench with no fuel pressure behind them ?

 

The long game has always been to get car device system voltage up to 48V, to get better control on everything from injectors, to, allowing camless engines which use solenoids to actuate the engine valves. It also uses less copper in the wiring, because higher voltages allow lower currents and therefore thinner wire to be used.

 

The Bosch piezo injectors in my old Alfa wouldn't do much at 5V for sure.....it used to always amaze me that the fuel rail ran at over 1600 bar pressure sometimes (maximum 1600 bar !), needed to get the diesel to shift

[fixitsan]

Well I'm happy to admit if I'm wrong...

 

I've spent the evening tidying up the wiring under the front fairing, which I ended up removing to give me better access to install the DRL unit I've been working on. I spent a lot of time with the lights on but the engine not running and knowing the battery isn't great I found out the bike wouldn't start.

 

After attaching the battery charger and waiting a short while i tried to start it and, thanks to the dim light on the right side of the bike I could see some arcing between the ignition lead and the frame !  I taped her with self amalgamating and still she didn't start straight away, but after a few goes fired into life.

 

I'll add some ignition cable to my shopping list !

[dandywarhol]

Well I'm happy to admit if I'm wrong...

 

I've spent the evening tidying up the wiring under the front fairing, which I ended up removing to give me better access to install the DRL unit I've been working on. I spent a lot of time with the lights on but the engine not running and knowing the battery isn't great I found out the bike wouldn't start.

 

After attaching the battery charger and waiting a short while i tried to start it and, thanks to the dim light on the right side of the bike I could see some arcing between the ignition lead and the frame !  I taped her with self amalgamating and still she didn't start straight away, but after a few goes fired into life.

 

I'll add some ignition cable to my shopping list !

 

 

I got a length of 7mm copper core from Roy Cummings at James Allan MOT Centre in Montgomery St lane, off Leith Walk

[fixitsan]

 

 

I got a length of 7mm copper core from Roy Cummings at James Allan MOT Centre in Montgomery St lane, off Leith Walk

 

Oooh, any excuse to nip into Edinburgh on the bike

[Hector]

Thanks very much guys for all your expertise and knowledge on the subject. As yet I've not had time to try anything because of work and other commitments. I did however give the TDM a well-deserved wash today as it was filthy following our return to England and a wet ride from Portsmouth to Lancashire. After hosing down (under normal water pressure) I fired up the engine (first time) to help dry it off and the tick over was very erratic. Sometimes so slow it almost stalled, then revving to around 2,000 rpm, then slow, then fast and so on for about 5 minutes before it settled to normal tick over revs. It's never behaved in this way in the past so there's definitely something amiss. Thanks again for all your ideas and I'll let you know in due course how we get on.
Thanks very much guys for all your expertise and knowledge on the subject. As yet I've not had time to try anything because of work and other commitments. I did however give the TDM a well-deserved wash today as it was filthy following our return to England and a wet ride from Portsmouth to Lancashire. After hosing down (under normal water pressure) I fired up the engine (first time) to help dry it off and the tick over was very erratic. Sometimes so slow it almost stalled, then revving to around 2,000 rpm, then slow, then fast and so on for about 5 minutes before it settled to normal tick over revs. It's never behaved in this way in the past so there's definitely something amiss. Thanks again for all your ideas and I'll let you know in due course how we get on.

[dandywarhol]

Thanks very much guys for all your expertise and knowledge on the subject. As yet I've not had time to try anything because of work and other commitments. I did however give the TDM a well-deserved wash today as it was filthy following our return to England and a wet ride from Portsmouth to Lancashire. After hosing down (under normal water pressure) I fired up the engine (first time) to help dry it off and the tick over was very erratic. Sometimes so slow it almost stalled, then revving to around 2,000 rpm, then slow, then fast and so on for about 5 minutes before it settled to normal tick over revs. It's never behaved in this way in the past so there's definitely something amiss. Thanks again for all your ideas and I'll let you know in due course how we get on.
Thanks very much guys for all your expertise and knowledge on the subject. As yet I've not had time to try anything because of work and other commitments. I did however give the TDM a well-deserved wash today as it was filthy following our return to England and a wet ride from Portsmouth to Lancashire. After hosing down (under normal water pressure) I fired up the engine (first time) to help dry it off and the tick over was very erratic. Sometimes so slow it almost stalled, then revving to around 2,000 rpm, then slow, then fast and so on for about 5 minutes before it settled to normal tick over revs. It's never behaved in this way in the past so there's definitely something amiss. Thanks again for all your ideas and I'll let you know in due course how we get on.

 

You're very welcome

 

You're very welcome

[Pedro]

have you considered it being a fuel quality problem?   i'm a resident of "rural " spain and i have encountered occasional problems regarding fuel quality.  i dont fill up car or bike after heavy downfall or rain, not when station is being re-filled by a tanker and i only fill up in high sales volume stations so the fuel is always fresh. i noticed you said you stayed in a rural area which got me thinking. worth a check inside you tank for water (common problem in low use petrol stations here) or debris ( not common but has been known to happen usually rust flakes). i've got some friends from the uk coming over in two weeks for another visit and i'm always consious where we stop for fuel with their modern machinery.