258 replies to this topic

[alexk243]

Where would I find that?

[Rallyist]

Where would I find that?

 

Her u go https://www.electros...ing-diagram.pdf

[alexk243]

So ended up replaceing the stator and I am still getting 12.6 or less on idle and decreasing with time... What is the next thing I can look at?

 

Is there a way to test the AC output to see if the stator is working?

[fixitsan]

Yep, set the voltmeter to AC volts, measure any 2 of the three wires from the stator with the engine running.

 

Sounds very much like you have a regulator problem to me  (or a wiring short before the regulator)

Edited by fixitsan, 25 May 2016 - 10:02 pm.

[alexk243]

What should the AC be coming from the stator (white wire to white wire)?

 

Any way to test the regulator?

[fixitsan]

Just try it and see......at least 20V is probably good, you could probably see over 40Vac when revving over 3000rpm.

 

The test of the regulator is to see if the stator is producing a good output first - if the stator output is healthy and regulator output is low, then the regulator is dead.

 

The other way to test the regulator is to drive it with an AC input voltage, but most of us don't have a 3 phase AC generator at 20V.......so may as well use the stator output

 

I think it is possible to test with a DC input voltage, but never having done it I cannot recommend it

[Studley Ramrod]

So ended up replaceing the stator and I am still getting 12.6 or less on idle and decreasing with time... What is the next thing I can look at?

 

Is there a way to test the AC output to see if the stator is working?

 

Just wondering if you've got a bad earth or you're losing current through a dodgy solenoid or fuse connection.  Seem to remember having a similar problem I had where the leccy output was peaking at around 4000rpm and then getting lower over 4000rpm, turned out to be a corroded fusebox.

[alexk243]

Any easy way to check for bad grounds or bad solenoids/fuses? 

 

I just replaced the regulator also with no results... still running mid 12's V and not really going up or down. Dies at idle if I turn the headlights on...

 

 

Ill upload a video of tests I did.

[fixitsan]

Have you measured the stator AC volts ?

[fixitsan]

Have you measured the stator AC volts ?

Fuses are easy to check, set the meter to itz resistance range (Ohms) and measure across both contacts (fuse out of the bike) . Fuses are under the seat.

Its possible a bad stator or regulator previously blew a fuse

[fixitsan]

Try checking for a bad earth, as suggested already...

 

In the wiring diagram below, the stator is the 'alternator' over on the left side.....the regulator feeds the battery directly via the red output wire, no fuse.

 

The regulator MUST be earthed. If you have swapped it for an original type, check that all the mounting area,screws and wires are clean. The later regulator is shaped like a long matchbox, the original one is a bit like a square hockey puck.

 

[attachment=8188:WP_20160601_08_06_13_Pro.jpg]

 

 

Check the connector of the red wire at the battery end....if the stator connector was fried as per your previous messages, perhaps that one is too ?  Unplug the regulator and check that the red wire in the connector measures 12V (measure to bike frame or battery'-' )...if it measures 12V at the regulator end of the red wire then it is probably intact and in reasonable order.

 

 

It always helps to faultfind in one direction. I tend to start with current sources, so stator first, then wiring to regulator, then regulator, followed by the wiring out to the battery.

Edited by fixitsan, 01 June 2016 - 07:45 am.

[Studley Ramrod]

Any easy way to check for bad grounds or bad solenoids/fuses? 

 

I just replaced the regulator also with no results... still running mid 12's V and not really going up or down. Dies at idle if I turn the headlights on...

 

 

Ill upload a video of tests I did.

 

The Haynes manual shows how to check for current leakage and also how to test the various electrical components.  Check out the electrical section and also the fault finding equipment section starting on page REF 39.

[alexk243]

Fuses are all fine, checked that out already. I'll check AC voltage on stator, but I checked resistance on stator and compared to ground and it was fine.

In the rebuild I know I added some extra grounds to frame too

[fixitsan]

Your average multimeter struggles to measure very low resistances. so it is hard to say if 0.3 Ohms, is correct.....but there may be a correct resistance but that doesn't mean that the windings are not shorted together ....shorted windings would also probably measure 0.3 Ohms on a meter which isn't calibrated and sensitive enough.

 

Only a voltage check will confirm the stator condition, (unless you're able to pass a measured amount of current through it by  another method) ...when it runs it generates a voltage and that induces a current, that current could leak to the metal framework in the stator or to another winding.....a resistance measurement might show that stator is good, but the current is all leaking away.

 

If your multimeter is capable of measuring large inductances (coil windings, units of mH) then you could get a better idea of the health of the windings, but most people don't have such meters to hand so, as an alternative method,  you don't here about it very much.

[alexk243]

Well the stator is brand new so I would not expect the windings to be bad... I still want to do the AC check just to rule it out.

 

I sanded contacts from the regulator and there also appears to be a ground wire too. 

 

Ill head to the garage and do some more tests...

[alexk243]

Ran some more tests.

10v AC between all white wires at idle (at regulator)

12.5-13v idle at starter solenoid, 11ish v at red wire at regulator.

When off there seems to be a 1-2v difference between red wire at regulator and starter solenoid... May be on to something. Going to pull the gas tank and investigate further.

[fixitsan]

Ran some more tests.

10v AC between all white wires at idle (at regulator)

12.5-13v idle at starter solenoid, 11ish v at red wire at regulator.

When off there seems to be a 1-2v difference between red wire at regulator and starter solenoid... May be on to something. Going to pull the gas tank and investigate further.

 

 

You're getting somewhere...but, I'm concerned that the stator voltage is too low....if you unplug the stator from the regulator and measure it again (perfectly safe to do this) is it still only 10V ac ?

 

The red wire of the regulator connects directly to the battery/solenoid terminal....they should, in theory, be the same, unless there's a weak connection...

[alexk243]

Yeah, with my cheap volt meter it is 10v AC at idle, didn't try revving it since I had to hold the prongs, I don't see how it could be low, everything is new. 

 

I am going to pull the tank and check wiring to the battery.

 

If the battery is bad could this reproduce the symptoms I am seeing? or would the stator overpower a bad battery while running?

Also it is 10v AC at the three prong connection under the tank at idle also (checked there to make sure there was not a wiring issue between there and regulator).

[fixitsan]

Yeah, with my cheap volt meter it is 10v AC at idle, didn't try revving it since I had to hold the prongs, I don't see how it could be low, everything is new. 

 

I am going to pull the tank and check wiring to the battery.

 

If the battery is bad could this reproduce the symptoms I am seeing? or would the stator overpower a bad battery while running?

Also it is 10v AC at the three prong connection under the tank at idle also (checked there to make sure there was not a wiring issue between there and regulator).

 

 

You should see not much less than 20V at 1500rpm, certainly more than 15V,  so 10V at idle on the stator wires, unplugged from the regulator, says there's a wiring fault between the plug and the stator, or the stator has failed.

 

 

A bad battery normally wouldn't be an issue for any healthy charging system.

 

If you're sure you have measured the stator voltage correctly, with the plug from the stator not plugged into the regulator, work back from the plug to the stator itself......

Edited by fixitsan, 01 June 2016 - 06:22 pm.

[alexk243]

826ohms from battery cable to ground with battery removed.... Is that an issue?