Cold start on the 900
Started by
Minty Hippo
, Nov 07 2006 03:51 pm
31 replies to this topic
#21
dandywarhol
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- Location:Edinburgh, Scotland
- TDM model: 2003
#22
TDMalcolm
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Posted 22 November 2006 - 12:47 pm
QUOTE(Minty Hippo @ Tue 7th Nov 2006, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just in case anyone else has had the same trouble as me with the cold start seizing, here's some info for this time of year.
There's a spring loaded brass bar by the injectors. When the bike's cold the bar is fully to the right (i.e. in the cold start position). After the engine is started and the temperature begins to rise, a wax element inside the coldstart mechanism expands and gradually moves the brass bar across to the left. If you give it a push here (see RHS view) while the engine is running the revs should drop as it moves in. Its full movement when cold should be around 20mm.
The brass bar can seize in its mount, the effect being that starting from cold in the winter may be difficult. All you need to do is spray with WD40 or light oil after cleaning to keep it mobile. (Grease may be too heavy to allow it to operate freely?) If yours has seized (like mine was) spray the area with penetrating oil and push - or in my case give it a gentle tap from the left hand side (see LHS view) with a piece of wood propelled by a hammer. If its moving OK and the cold start still does not operate I have heard that the wax element can fail - but that's another story.
RHS view
LHS View
There's a spring loaded brass bar by the injectors. When the bike's cold the bar is fully to the right (i.e. in the cold start position). After the engine is started and the temperature begins to rise, a wax element inside the coldstart mechanism expands and gradually moves the brass bar across to the left. If you give it a push here (see RHS view) while the engine is running the revs should drop as it moves in. Its full movement when cold should be around 20mm.
The brass bar can seize in its mount, the effect being that starting from cold in the winter may be difficult. All you need to do is spray with WD40 or light oil after cleaning to keep it mobile. (Grease may be too heavy to allow it to operate freely?) If yours has seized (like mine was) spray the area with penetrating oil and push - or in my case give it a gentle tap from the left hand side (see LHS view) with a piece of wood propelled by a hammer. If its moving OK and the cold start still does not operate I have heard that the wax element can fail - but that's another story.
RHS view
LHS View
Nice one minty, I'll have to lubricate mine, then i'll do the bike!
TDMalcolm
#23
Pict
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Keep on keepin' on
- Location:North Herts., UK
- TDM model: 2006
Posted 22 November 2006 - 04:58 pm
QUOTE(dandywarhol @ Wed 22nd Nov 2006, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Had to admit it brought a smile to my dried up coupon
Aweel ma loon - better a coupon nor a bus pass, eh?
"It's a TDM, Jim, but not as we know it"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAHmEWim3to
Diamond black TDM 900A TRIKE, 2006 ABS model converted by Trike Design (Caerphilly, South Wales) prior to first registration in March 2007.
#24
Minty Hippo
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Posted 22 November 2006 - 10:11 pm
QUOTE(TDMalcolm @ Wed 22nd Nov 2006, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nice one minty, I'll have to lubricate mine, then i'll do the bike!
TDMalcolm
TDMalcolm
Do try to keep up Malcolm.
#25
TDMalcolm
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Posted 23 November 2006 - 01:56 pm
QUOTE(Minty Hippo @ Wed 22nd Nov 2006, 09:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do try to keep up Malcolm.
I do try minty ..honest
TDMalcolm
#26
TDMalcolm
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Posted 06 December 2006 - 09:45 pm
QUOTE(Minty Hippo @ Tue 7th Nov 2006, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just in case anyone else has had the same trouble as me with the cold start seizing, here's some info for this time of year.
There's a spring loaded brass bar by the injectors. When the bike's cold the bar is fully to the right (i.e. in the cold start position). After the engine is started and the temperature begins to rise, a wax element inside the coldstart mechanism expands and gradually moves the brass bar across to the left. If you give it a push here (see RHS view) while the engine is running the revs should drop as it moves in. Its full movement when cold should be around 20mm.
The brass bar can seize in its mount, the effect being that starting from cold in the winter may be difficult. All you need to do is spray with WD40 or light oil after cleaning to keep it mobile. (Grease may be too heavy to allow it to operate freely?) If yours has seized (like mine was) spray the area with penetrating oil and push - or in my case give it a gentle tap from the left hand side (see LHS view) with a piece of wood propelled by a hammer. If its moving OK and the cold start still does not operate I have heard that the wax element can fail - but that's another story.
RHS view
LHS View
There's a spring loaded brass bar by the injectors. When the bike's cold the bar is fully to the right (i.e. in the cold start position). After the engine is started and the temperature begins to rise, a wax element inside the coldstart mechanism expands and gradually moves the brass bar across to the left. If you give it a push here (see RHS view) while the engine is running the revs should drop as it moves in. Its full movement when cold should be around 20mm.
The brass bar can seize in its mount, the effect being that starting from cold in the winter may be difficult. All you need to do is spray with WD40 or light oil after cleaning to keep it mobile. (Grease may be too heavy to allow it to operate freely?) If yours has seized (like mine was) spray the area with penetrating oil and push - or in my case give it a gentle tap from the left hand side (see LHS view) with a piece of wood propelled by a hammer. If its moving OK and the cold start still does not operate I have heard that the wax element can fail - but that's another story.
RHS view
LHS View
HI Minty, remember i said i'll have to lub the brass bar on my 900...when i was causing problems on mine and the dealer who sorted the tps said i know whats goin on did that as well, he did mention that complete "modul" was nearly £900
...Hell!! glad it's in warrantee, TDMalcolm
#27
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Posted 16 March 2007 - 09:27 pm
Okay my problem is like this.
The steel rod slides in and out the full length of travel. The external slidey flat bar with the spring doesn't.
When I press from the LHS, both bars travel about 5mm ( to the right) and reach the full length of their travel. When I release the flat bar slides back on its own (taking the rod with it), but only about 5mm, then stops hard. (it feels like it should stop - its a nice positive, Ive- reached- as- far -as -I -should -go, type stop).
If i push it rightwards again and hold it, the rod can be pulled back considerably further - more like the 20mm Minty refers to.
Also sticking my fingers in the little space there (ooh aah misses) I can feel the bar's elongated slots - suggesting it should be travelling back a lot farther. So it sounds like somethings jamming it.
Before I go to all the fag of taking the tank off and airfilter etc. I just want to ask if there is a problem, ie am I understanding things correctly?
Could this just be a case of giving it a bang (or strong tap), from the LHS, to make the bar travel to the right?
Any other suggestions?
The steel rod slides in and out the full length of travel. The external slidey flat bar with the spring doesn't.
When I press from the LHS, both bars travel about 5mm ( to the right) and reach the full length of their travel. When I release the flat bar slides back on its own (taking the rod with it), but only about 5mm, then stops hard. (it feels like it should stop - its a nice positive, Ive- reached- as- far -as -I -should -go, type stop).
If i push it rightwards again and hold it, the rod can be pulled back considerably further - more like the 20mm Minty refers to.
Also sticking my fingers in the little space there (ooh aah misses) I can feel the bar's elongated slots - suggesting it should be travelling back a lot farther. So it sounds like somethings jamming it.
Before I go to all the fag of taking the tank off and airfilter etc. I just want to ask if there is a problem, ie am I understanding things correctly?
Could this just be a case of giving it a bang (or strong tap), from the LHS, to make the bar travel to the right?
Any other suggestions?
#28
Minty Hippo
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Posted 18 March 2007 - 09:36 pm
ET - is your cold start actually working? I mean does it start on fast idle and then drop off to normal revs after a while? The whole mechanism should move a lot more than 5mm. It should be all the way across to the right if the engine's cold... so if you press it from the right when its cold it will move 20mm and then the spring returns it when you let go. but if it isn't...working from the LHS, spray some plusgas or similar over the brass bits ...let it work in for a while...then give it a wee tap with a hammer using a bit of wood to avoid damaging anything. Mine came unstuck pretty readily.
#29
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Posted 19 March 2007 - 01:40 pm
sorted it now - the slider was absolutely fine, it was the brass rod to which it connects (where the brass flat bar screws on) was stiff (not seized)
All I've got to cope with now is a knackered battery (again - this one is under two years old and lives on the Optimate everytime I put the bike away)
All I've got to cope with now is a knackered battery (again - this one is under two years old and lives on the Optimate everytime I put the bike away)
#30
Hotvalve
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arrived on last train
- Location:Lancashire, UK
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Posted 24 April 2008 - 12:54 pm
Just wanted to say many thanks for this excellent tip. My trusty steed would not fast idle after its winter layoff (had to keep it going on the throttle for a few mins) and I feared having to do the proper strip down as posted elsewhere on this forum (another excellent post).
However after a gentle tap, as suggested by Minty, all is well, and the spanners can stay in their box. Lovely! A simple solution you might think, but it's knowing where to tap...
Thanks again, Minty. If we are ever in the same pub, the beers are on me.
Hotvalve.
However after a gentle tap, as suggested by Minty, all is well, and the spanners can stay in their box. Lovely! A simple solution you might think, but it's knowing where to tap...
Thanks again, Minty. If we are ever in the same pub, the beers are on me.
Hotvalve.
#31
srj999
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arrived on last train
- Location:St Leonards, East Sussex
- TDM model: 2007
Posted 24 April 2008 - 01:20 pm
Yesterday, I picked up a shiney new red TDM to replace my ailing '02 model. The years have not been kind to the old girl and the weather has removed most of the engine paint, added plenty of fur and rust spots to an already very tatty machine. However, the biggest issue I had was with rough running, which had gradually got worse. No end of visits to my local dealer provided any answers. On my last visit, the mechanic told me that the problem was with the cold start unit. I would have to replace the entire system and, at over £1000 fitted, it waas more than the bike was worth.
So it was that I went to my usual dealer in Faversham, took up the 0% finance that Yamaha ran this year and finally took the bike home last night.
When I collected the keys, I mentioned the lumpy engine issue to this shop and the mechanic said, "Oh, there's a dead easy fix for that." He then described exactly what Minty has shown.
I appear to have bought in haste. Then again; I am very pleased with the new machine, as is the other half (fortunately). Thanks for sharing anyway
So it was that I went to my usual dealer in Faversham, took up the 0% finance that Yamaha ran this year and finally took the bike home last night.
When I collected the keys, I mentioned the lumpy engine issue to this shop and the mechanic said, "Oh, there's a dead easy fix for that." He then described exactly what Minty has shown.
I appear to have bought in haste. Then again; I am very pleased with the new machine, as is the other half (fortunately). Thanks for sharing anyway
Will be ripping AutoCom unit, Scottoiler, tall screen, blue headlights, red LED lamp unit & centre stand from the old bike to go on to the new one. Soon. Probably. Will also be setting up the suspension again - must get away from the bouncy ride I have at present.
#32
dandywarhol
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Posted 24 April 2008 - 05:34 pm
Mine wouldn't go OFF fast idle - flat bar etc. ok but the silver steel rod in the module had seized to the alloy module body.
Removed the 2 crosshead screws, dismantled the module with the wax element, cleaned up the rod, lubed and refitted. About 30 mins total and saved me £900
Removed the 2 crosshead screws, dismantled the module with the wax element, cleaned up the rod, lubed and refitted. About 30 mins total and saved me £900
1967 Yamaha TD1C 250, 2014 Kawasaki W800, 2011 Aprilia Tuono 1000 V4, 2020 Yamaha XSR900
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