82 replies to this topic

[Bjørge]

no I think the voltage dividers are inside the ecu, there is no way to bypass them.

Right, that's why some kinda switching would be necessary, a parallell coupling can't be used due to sensor input providing a voltage for sensing resistance would get interference from 2 parallell wired... switching sensor between ECUs, OTOH....

[fixitsan]

Right, that's why some kinda switching would be necessary, a parallell coupling can't be used due to sensor input providing a voltage for sensing resistance would get interference from 2 parallell wired... switching sensor between ECUs, OTOH....

 

Yes, true, but that means that one of the ECU's would have to be powered up but disconnected from the sensor inputs....this may be a problem and cause a fault condition (missing sensor or sensor input out of range)., a fault condition, which can only be reset by powering off the ECU. To be in the same state both ECU's need to be reading the same input levels at the same time, then it would be easy to switch the injector and ignition coils over between both systems...

 

The other way around - If either ECU is left completely disconnected and then switched over then there would be a delay as the 'new' ECU goes through it's boot sequence.

 

I'm not sure which sensors are the main problems, any resistive sensor would definitely need some buffering, temperature sensors, TPS too probably ?

[JBX]

Use ground switching so you may leave sensors connected to both ECUs, same for actuators.

It requires a big relay as an ECU needs to sink much bigger ground current than it needs to source +12V.

But then again switching can only be done with the bike stopped.

[Bjørge]

But then again switching can only be done with the bike stopped.

 

Inflight switching would be posch, but maybe not really necessary ?

[fixitsan]

 

Inflight switching would be posch, but maybe not really necessary ?

 

 

I think it is just easier to ask a question at Samios

[fixitsan]

 

 

Samios remapping looks interesting, but I'd like to know the exact change in fuel consumption and (mainly) engine wear.

 

 

I think like any other engine, wear is directly related to rider habits.

 

I have 98000 miles on my engine, it uses almost no oil and the gearbox is excellent. Wear could only be increased if I try to get more from the engine than it already gives in any gear, and if I use it to full advantage whenever it is possible to do so, I actually probably only used the increased performance 2-5 percent of the time, and even then I cannot say for sure that I exceeded the output of then engine in an unrestricted gear.

 

Coxylaad still has the ECU to play with and at the end of next month is going to use it on the track in his TRX900. Ian definitely noticed the improvement of smoother transitions on and off the throttle thanks to no fuel cutting and it allows you to balance the throttle when going through, and then leaving corners. You don't *have to* use the increased power to enjoy it

[fixitsan]

When i get the ECU back from Coxy's track testing I'll download the contents of the ECU memory. I was prudent enough to keep a copy of the original ECU contents before posting it to Samios, so if I run both files through a file comparison program I'll be able to see exactly what the differences are.

Edited by fixitsan, 03 July 2017 - 10:39 am.

[celticbiker]

Just had a look at Samios and they include a mod to give you a quick shifter on the Fazer, might give it go

[fixitsan]

Just had a look at Samios and they include a mod to give you a quick shifter on the Fazer, might give it go

looks likr they can do a lot for the Fazer

[tdmprofessor]

So... based on the experiences of fixitsan I also decided to flash my ECU at Samios. Have tested it now for a few weeks, and really happy with it. Much easier to pull a wheelie in first three gears  , and also on/off throttle response is much better now. (p.s. I kept original fuel tables because i already have a PC3 installed...)

[fixitsan]

So... based on the experiences of fixitsan I also decided to flash my ECU at Samios. Have tested it now for a few weeks, and really happy with it. Much easier to pull a wheelie in first three gears  , and also on/off throttle response is much better now. (p.s. I kept original fuel tables because i already have a PC3 installed...)

 

 

It is enjoyable

 

Mine is with Coxylad who I think still intends to race on a track with it in the next couple of weeks,. That should be interesting reading !

[dandywarhol]

Interesting thread!

 

I'd be interested to know how the consumption is affected by continiously fuelling on closed throttle (above 2k)

 

Re. the gearbox being given a harder time due to torque increase - just don't whack it in 1st - thats when max torque is in any 'box

[fixitsan]

Interesting thread!

 

I'd be interested to know how the consumption is affected by continiously fuelling on closed throttle (above 2k)

 

Re. the gearbox being given a harder time due to torque increase - just don't whack it in 1st - thats when max torque is in any 'box

 

 

It doesn't seem to be particularly worse Dandy, I mean, i don't spend much time on closed throttle anyway, and the amount of fuel delivered during that time is the same as when the bike is idling.

 

If you want to give it a try I'm going to be planning to get it from Coxylad after he has tried it on the track next week, so it will be back in West Lothian after that

Edited by fixitsan, 22 August 2017 - 01:09 pm.

[dandywarhol]

Thanks for the offer - appreciated but I don't have a 900 any more - your ECU is currently on my old bike! 

[fixitsan]

Thanks for the offer - appreciated but I don't have a 900 any more - your ECU is currently on my old bike! 

 

 

Ah, ! Fair enough !

[Coxylaad]

right! sorry for the late reply.

 

i had to delay my report as I there were a few variables that affected things. 

 

I ran the ecu on the tdm, and i found the biggest improvement was in the manners and drive-ability of the bike. there was a lack of vibrations, and the on off throttle transition is a great improvement. The bike did feel a little bit strong in the lower gears, but its wasnt a night and day change. Then again I wouldnt expect it to be. Why would a manufacturer cripple their bikes for no reason.

 

So with that the above in mind it definitely gets a thumbs up for the tdm on the road. Its a nice improvement over stock. 

 

next up was to try it on the track bike. 

 

I installed it and loaded a zero map onto the power commander so it wasnt affecting any of the results. 

We did 2 days at cadwell park last week, and true to UK trackday form we got 2 dry sessions in the morning then it pissed down for the remaining day and a half. 

 

I dont mind I like wet track days however, they level off the performance of the bikes, and half the guys booked on see the wet, pack up and go home so its nice and quiet haha

 

anyways it was more difficult to see any benefit of the ecu on the track as where it excels in gentle on off throttle smoothness, is somewhere where the bike doesnt really operate. there is an awful lot of maximum throttle pinned to the stop on a bike with 90bhp. 

 

Worse I actually thought it was down on power as I was struggling to pull past 7500rpm in 5th up park straight and i distinctly remember it pulling right through to 9000rpm on previous visits on the bike a few years back. 

 

Having done some investigation I dont think its the ecu to blame for this but water ingress causing the bike to run rough. The bike felt rough at 7500rpm and it definitely used to sing at that point, so I believe the HT leads were braking down. 

 

I took the bike for a test run last night and got up to 112mph on my test track, I didnt have time to try my stock setup as it was getting dark and I have no headlights, but it seemed to pull a little cleaner. backing up my wet ht lead theory. 

 

I will do another run at the weekend and see what the stock setup can manage. 

 

Much appreciate the loan of the ecu fixitsan, incredibly generous and trusting of you  . It was bubble wrapped to death, put in a jiffy bag and posted up to you yesterday. let me know when you receive it. 

 

so in summary, i think its a fantastic mod for the roads where most people will be using there tdm900's and well worth it if you want your bike to feel like a modern well mannered motorcycle. 

 

The jury is current out for the track, as full throttle is full throttle, and I think my bike had other issues clouding the test. 

 

For the track I think I am going to be building a race engine out of the tdm lump so I will probably go with a standalone custom mappable ecu like the ignijet. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Coxylaad, 06 September 2017 - 10:11 pm.

[Coxylaad]

just to add to this, for the road, when I get the funds I will definitely go for the remapped stock ecu. the benefits are certainly worth it. 

[fixitsan]

Good write up Ian. I got it back yesterday, fitted it and went for a run, the smoothness is back !

 

I think you're right about full throttle performance being about the same, because that's when the Yamaha stock ECU goes into open loop mode and pumps a safe but low ratio of fuel into the intakes, and the ignition advance is pinned at the safe maximum. The Samios remap has a tad more ignition advance at full throttle from what I've read but I doubt it's noticeable.

 

I was waiting to see if you found more power at the top with the Samios ECU and Power Commander (IE with more fuel) . I didn't expect there to be any because once you go past the maximum power FA ratio there is no more power no matter how much more fuel you add....but if you had of found some that could be useful info to give to Samios if a custom map were required by someone.

 

For track racing you're always going to be better off with a programmable ECU I reckon. I haven't downloaded the contents of the Samios ECU yet but I intend to do it and compare that with the files I downloaded from the ECU before it went for the remap. We should be able to see the differences, though they will only be sets of numbers in tables, it should be possible to infer something useful about the settings, which might be of use to someone else who wants to program their own unit..

 

Thanks for sharing your opinion, great photos there too !

Edited by fixitsan, 07 September 2017 - 08:18 am.

[fixitsan]

I think it's true that if the ECU can be read then it can be written to. I have my original ECU (2003 model, -02 suffix to the part number) and it cannot be read. I thought that later ECUs would not be readable but it seems i am wrong. Some ECUs from ABS bikes, with a part number beginning '2BO' can be read, and therefore it is possible that they can also be written to

 

The bottom line is to send a picture of your part number label from the ECU to Samios to find out. He has a printed book by Denso which covers every unit they have made and he will know the definitive answer.

[Coxylaad]

i have 2 to play with, I think the tdm one is one that cant be written to, but the one in my trx had an almost identical part number to your samios one.  I will just get that one done and fit the ignijet to the trx.