282 replies to this topic

[dablik]

Blimey that's a cracking explanation innit, good find.....need to read a few times i think,  i'm not 100% sure it's getting to hot as normally dont touch the TCI under working conditions, i "think" it seemed to be hotter than it should, even so i'll take a look at the wiring schematic and see where the circuit leads me to.

 

I'll be wuppin the valve cover off tomorrow as well, wanna make sure all is good...

 

Edit, Hmm, assuming the TCI is actually getting hot and therefore suggests a possible voltage drop in the ground ( ie more resistance) circuit or a dodgy connection may explain erratic firing !

Edited by dablik, 26 May 2021 - 06:17 pm.

[Studley Ramrod]

Yeah, I've read some parts a few times and it's slowly sinking in.   Deffo some 'proper' testing methods in there worth looking at.  Good idea to check the valve timing, it's mechanical and so easy to eliminate if all is in order.

 

I'll check mine for 'heat' tomorrow and report back.

[dablik]

Righto nice one cheers...

[dablik]

I also came across this page from the XS650 Forum with easy to follow instructions and near the bottom they have listed an "active" pick up coil test with the use of a 12v LED light which should show the pulse signal when firing..

[Studley Ramrod]

[Studley Ramrod]

No heat at all on mine Dabs.  Ran it from cold for 4-5 mins and it stayed the same temp.

[dablik]

No heat at all on mine Dabs.  Ran it from cold for 4-5 mins and it stayed the same temp.

 

Okay thanks and good to know, summit going on with mine then on the safety switch circuit or lights/indicators, tested safety switches today and the sidestand switch is puckered, neutral switch also, till i realised was testing wrong side of the switch, much later, needs a redo, but that's all interconnected through the ground along with the TCI, maybe thas it !! 

 

Exhaust off including manifold hoping to get a look at me exhaust valves, what a waste of time that was, would need to move the wheel and forks to see, so back on.

 

Carbs off and replaced Inlet manifold stubs with spares plus spankin carb rubbers, cant see nowt wrong with the original though, radiator off and at the head, timing was off a tooth, exhaust side, strange i thought, checked valve clearances and found cylinder 1 all Inlet shims had opened by 2x.2 and 1x.3,  so now measuring .19-.22-.21 left to right, not significant but Inlets should tighten up BUT not been anywhere, so will assume measurements were a bit off initially as i was racing a thunderstorm.......however

 

Timing marks will NOT stay in place, CCT out 4 times and after rotating 360 x 4 the Exh cam had dropped a tooth down and Inlet 1 tooth up, off set the timing which i've done before and timing was set when the CCT engaged, spin the motor round x 4 and timing is out again, same every time, hmm very strange thinks i, this is not normal and i got to thinking have i a problem with the cams, swapped them out with my others along with the cam caps and 3 x exactly the same as above.

Plugs in-situ all the time.

 

So thas gotta be another record innit 

 

Not sure what's going on but i'm thinking maybe a boogered/bent valve but compression test okay across both cylinders     and do i have a mechanical and electrical problem !!!! or i'll have to remove the cam chain and measure maybe.. but at no time while i was rotating the engine did i see or hear the chain slip ?

 

See what the weather does in the morning and prolly have a last bash at setting the timing again, if i cant set it gonna have to think about pulling the head, if theirs a problem with the valve train it would explain the really crap running..

Edited by dablik, 27 May 2021 - 07:08 pm.

[Studley Ramrod]

 

Okay thanks and good to know, summit going on with mine then on the safety switch circuit or lights/indicators, tested safety switches today and the sidestand switch is puckered, neutral switch also, till i realised was testing wrong side of the switch, much later, needs a redo, but that's all interconnected through the ground along with the TCI, maybe thas it !! 

 

Exhaust off including manifold hoping to get a look at me exhaust valves, what a waste of time that was, would need to move the wheel and forks to see, so back on.

 

Carbs off and replaced Inlet manifold stubs with spares plus spankin carb rubbers, cant see nowt wrong with the original though, radiator off and at the head, timing was off a tooth, exhaust side, strange i thought, checked valve clearances and found cylinder 1 all Inlet shims had opened by 2x.2 and 1x.3,  so now measuring .19-.22-.21 left to right, not significant but Inlets should tighten up BUT not been anywhere, so will assume measurements were a bit off initially as i was racing a thunderstorm.......however

 

Timing marks will NOT stay in place, CCT out 4 times and after rotating 360 x 4 the Exh cam had dropped a tooth down and Inlet 1 tooth up, off set the timing which i've done before and timing was set when the CCT engaged, spin the motor round x 4 and timing is out again, same every time, hmm very strange thinks i, this is not normal and i got to thinking have i a problem with the cams, swapped them out with my others along with the cam caps and 3 x exactly the same as above.

Plugs in-situ all the time.

 

So thas gotta be another record innit 

 

Not sure what's going on but i'm thinking maybe a boogered/bent valve but compression test okay across both cylinders     and do i have a mechanical and electrical problem !!!! or i'll have to remove the cam chain and measure maybe.. but at no time while i was rotating the engine did i see or hear the chain slip ?

 

See what the weather does in the morning and prolly have a last bash at setting the timing again, if i cant set it gonna have to think about pulling the head, if theirs a problem with the valve train it would explain the really crap running..

Shouldn't be any need to do that imho Dabs and might just be why you keep getting the timing out after winding the engine on 4 times. D,ya think it'd be worth trying to set it spot on before fitting the CCT.  I know it's a fiddly job without a spare set of hands, I've had timing slip on occasion too.  Could it be a sticky CCT ?

[dablik]

Ian i only off set the cams a tad after a couple of times of setting the timing bang on,  timing stayed put with the CCT in, only on turning engine over it's getting out of wack !! In fact it's quite easy setting it up correctly using 2 screw drivers through the camshaft holes, seemed to be a bit of tension on the chain even after removing the CCT, which i oiled up the 2nd time, forgot the 1st..

 

Cant believe i'm getting so inept at setting the timing, will have another go at it, it's killing me back and knees 

 

Bleedin moan about shoite weather and when it's nice i'm in a flippin sun trap 

 

Edit, not sure it's the CCT either, i give it a gentle nudge with a small screwy to the chain then once it's all fastened up can hear it click the last ml or so into place...

Edited by dablik, 27 May 2021 - 08:21 pm.

[Catteeclan]

I do lots of cam belts at work. Sometimes I'm fighting the cam pulleys but mostly it's the crank that moves when fitting the belt. I'll allow the crank to turn back a tooth knowing that when I pull up the tension it'll come back as the slack is taken up by the tensioner.
Once that tension's set turn over by hand and 99% of the time all's well.

 

I've also fitted a chain to a bike not noticing the chain wasn't engaged with the bottom sprocket. Bugga had jumped off to the side, set it twice before I found out.

Edited by Catteeclan, 28 May 2021 - 05:15 am.

[Studley Ramrod]

Yep. As Dave says, could be the crankshaft moving slightly at some point.  Another pair of hands would help there. 

 

Get yerself wanna them little wheeled seats Dabs.  Keep threatening to get one myself as my knees soon start throwing out the white flag these days.

[Dickiebig]

Two upturned plastic buckets, one inside the other, has saved my knees this year. Am I tight.....you bet!

[dablik]

I do lots of cam belts at work. Sometimes I'm fighting the cam pulleys but mostly it's the crank that moves when fitting the belt. I'll allow the crank to turn back a tooth knowing that when I pull up the tension it'll come back as the slack is taken up by the tensioner.
Once that tension's set turn over by hand and 99% of the time all's well.

 

I've also fitted a chain to a bike not noticing the chain wasn't engaged with the bottom sprocket. Bugga had jumped off to the side, set it twice before I found out.

 

This exactly, which works and have done it in the past a few times, hm maybe a look at the bottom sprocket, can i get away with just the left side oil pump out ! would actually make sense as i'm off a tooth after rotation... i'm prolly coming over as a right nob ed but i know the timing can be fiddly and i've done it enough times to know it aint right..

Yep. As Dave says, could be the crankshaft moving slightly at some point.  Another pair of hands would help there. 

 

Get yerself wanna them little wheeled seats Dabs.  Keep threatening to get one myself as my knees soon start throwing out the white flag these days.

 

Crankshaft moving a tad would certainly explain it.

Knees in absolute bulk, getting up is almost comical they lock up and then me back      no room for one of them wheeled chairs Studs, nice idea though..

Two upturned plastic buckets, one inside the other, has saved my knees this year. Am I tight.....you bet!

 

You tight sod  got a big thick foam silly cone type mat thing, thank god..

Edited by dablik, 28 May 2021 - 01:56 pm.

[Snowbird]

Smugity smugity smug smug.....

 20210108_162458.jpg   123.94KB   0 downloads

 

Now this could be me being stupid as I've not had the bottom of one of these apart (yet).

Is the crank sprocket integral to the crank or is there a keyway that could be dodgy and moving about?

[dablik]

No Keyway ya smug git    very nice Dave, truly jealous i am.

Edited by dablik, 28 May 2021 - 02:12 pm.

[dapleb]

I don't Gerrit dabbers. Lookin at right E n I?

Other than that oim stumped.

[dablik]

Yup sure am, i dont get it either, timing was set up bang on previously, checked yesterday and dropped a tooth, same each time i reset !!

 

Just have to go at it again wont I, iffin cant sort it will assume chain is stuffed or pull the oil pump and look at the bottom of chain on the sprock.. chain dont feel right though ??

[dablik]

Just back from re-reading me build thread, had exactly the same problems as now..

[Studley Ramrod]

Just read it mysel, seems you had the chain guard off and used a ruler to line it up last time.  Oh and a good wack of the CCT ?

[dablik]

Same this time, not the ruler as thermo hose to water pump in the way but that was more for the piccie, iffin i had thought on i should of measured the tensioner when i took it out to see how extended it is... gonna get Nadi to eyeball the timing mark when i set the cams up so i'll know if it's moving...