278 replies to this topic

[fixitsan]

I the sensor needs to be in the airbox.....so that as the temperature rises the amount of fuel can be reduced and vice versa.

By fitting the sensor outside you enrichen the mixture. Regardless of the temperature of the air whic the engine draws in the fuelling will not suit the air temp seen by the engine.

The best fix is to add a resistor, then the fuelling will rise and fall with air temp, but with the required offset needed to enrichen the mixture...... or the very best solution, feed colder air into the airbox

[JBX]

It is true that the air box above your engine takes over the engine heat and so the IAT sensor becomes very hot.

The thick plastic of the air box becomes very hot and so the IAT sensor.

When your engine is running  and you are standing still with the bike warm air comes in the air inlet,

but when you are driving it sucks the out side air in.

I will do some other tests for the colt air inlet.

I am going too try the inlet pipes from a Goldwing gl 1500 air box or something like it.

Greetings, Frits from Holland

 

That's why it is better to get on the bike and ride it !

At idle, when the "warm air" around the air-box intake is sucked by the engine, it is normally soon replaced by some "normal air"...

The engine is already sucking more than half a cubic meter of air per minute at idle, I don't think it has much time to get that hot.

[fixitsan]

My thoughts too JBX.... over 20 litres per second, that does a lot of cooling !

Edited by fixitsan, 25 May 2016 - 07:30 pm.

[frits44]

 

That's why it is better to get on the bike and ride it !

At idle, when the "warm air" around the air-box intake is sucked by the engine, it is normally soon replaced by some "normal air"...

The engine is already sucking more than half a cubic meter of air per minute at idle, I don't think it has much time to get that hot.

 JBX,

It was a test ride to see what it can do, I changed it now the IAT sensor is in the air inlet.

 

How do you start your engine in DIAG mode to check the D 05 ????

 

I try to do it but it will not start, in CO mode its starts.

 

Greetings, Frits

[frits44]

People I checked it 3 times, the IAT sensor becomes very hot.

 

Please check it yourself, again my engine does not start in DIAG mode to check while riding d 05.

 

Here is what it did today to solve things, I have a second IAT sensor now and put it in the inlet of my cover air box.

 

I also isolated my air box against the heat of the engine with another aluminum heat shield from a car.

 

And I can switch with the IAT sensor, one in the front of my bike and one in the cover air box now.

 

Here are the results,

 

Greetings, Frits from Holland.

 

http://s1175.photobu...hr848z.jpg.html

 

 

[fixitsan]

Frits, I just wanted you to understand what is happening, please see the graph below

 

Red line, standard bike....as the intake air temperature rises the ECU responds by using less fuel (correct behaviour, just as happens with carburetor, the ECU does the same)

 

Green line is your personal goal, a slight increase in fueling, but again reducing when the air temperature increases

 

Blue line - Where you are now, with a sensor reading the outside air and unable to change with airbox temperature. The problem is , as you can see, as the airbox gets hotter the fueling stay s very rich...potentially could it cause plug fouling ?

 

Brown line, the response you get by adding a small series resistor...... results in slightly more fuel, but a reduction in fueling as temperature increases. Although it is not a perfect solution (green line is ideal)  it is a much better fit than the blue line

 

[attachment=8098:IAT.JPG]

Edited by fixitsan, 25 May 2016 - 07:26 pm.

[JBX]

While I still think about it : there is no need to remove the whole AIS mechanism from the bike in case you don't want it working - I already said this mod was useless and a bad thing for air pollution but anyway it's up to you - you may do the same mod than the air-box flap actuator to disable it.

- remove the left fairing, get access to the main ECU connector, unplug it.

- unlock the pins then remove the Br/R wire, protect pin from chassis contact, replug main ECU connector.

Edited by JBX, 25 May 2016 - 08:04 pm.

[fixitsan]

While I still think about it : there is no need to remove the whole AIS mechanism from the bike in case you don't want it working - I already said this mod was useless and a bad thing for air pollution but anyway it's up to you - you may do the same mod than the air-box flap actuator to disable it.

- remove the left fairing, get access to the main ECU connector, unplug it.

- unlock the pins then remove the Br/R wire, protect pin from chassis contact, replug main ECU connector.

 

You know I wondered, but with the it unplugged the solenoid seemed always open. (active low ), I may be wrong....

 

Also there is no increase in pollution. The grams of any pollutant produced in the combustion process is the same (on my bike, with no catalyst).  The AIS dilutes the pollutants before they leave the tailpipe....which makes it easy for the bike to pass pollution tests....but the combustion byproducts are produced in the same volume

Edited by fixitsan, 25 May 2016 - 08:09 pm.

[frits44]

While I still think about it : there is no need to remove the whole AIS mechanism from the bike in case you don't want it working - I already said this mod was useless and a bad thing for air pollution but anyway it's up to you - you may do the same mod than the air-box flap actuator to disable it.

- remove the left fairing, get access to the main ECU connector, unplug it.

- unlock the pins then remove the Br/R wire, protect pin from chassis contact, replug main ECU connector.

 JBX,

 

I know that but I do not want it on my bike it is useless, so therefor I took it of.

 

I respect everybody to do with his bike what he wants do do with it.

 

I can reverse everything except my mod on my exhaust.

 

And I am testing things how it works.

 

Thanks.

 

greetings, Frits from Holland

[frits44]

Frits, I just wanted you to understand what is happening, please see the graph below

 

Red line, standard bike....as the intake air temperature rises the ECU responds by using less fuel (correct behaviour, just as happens with carburetor, the ECU does the same)

 

Green line is your personal goal, a slight increase in fueling, but again reducing when the air temperature increases

 

Blue line - Where you are now, with a sensor reading the outside air and unable to change with airbox temperature. The problem is , as you can see, as the airbox gets hotter the fueling stay s very rich...potentially could it cause plug fouling ?

 

Brown line, the response you get by adding a small series resistor...... results in slightly more fuel, but a reduction in fueling as temperature increases. Although it is not a perfect solution (green line is ideal)  it is a much better fit than the blue line

 

IAT.JPG

 

Fixitsan,

 

I am now using the IAT sensor in the air inlet, so it can measure warm and colt air.

 

The warm air from the engine also comes in the air inlet of the air box.

 

I am testing things now.

 

But I am 100 % sure that the IAT sensor in stock place becomes very hot.

 

Please test it yourself and than you now what I mean.

 

I still do not now how to start my engine in DIAG mode, It starts only in CO mode.??????

 

Thanks for the help and info.

 

Greetings, Frits from Holland

[fixitsan]

I will check my sensor, when i get the time.

 

I tend not to run very slowly, on the open road there is a lot of cold Scottish air helping the situation

[JBX]

 

You know I wondered, but with the it unplugged the solenoid seemed always open. (active low ), I may be wrong....

 

Also there is no increase in pollution. The grams of any pollutant produced in the combustion process is the same (on my bike, with no catalyst).  The AIS dilutes the pollutants before they leave the tailpipe....which makes it easy for the bike to pass pollution tests....but the combustion byproducts are produced in the same volume

 

Removing the catalytic converter is bad.

It increases the overall pollution we have due to increasing road traffic, and on injected engines it gives a poor result on the global engine behavior - jerkiness and other bad mixture effects which requires increasing the CO level to be solved.

 

If there was not regulation about engine emissions we would leave an un-breathable world to our children.

It is already a mess, I think there is no reason to worsen it.

 

About the AIS : you're right it is open without ECU command and closed when activated by the ECU.

So to have if always closed, remove pin Br/R from the connector and wire it to the chassis.

Edited by JBX, 25 May 2016 - 09:46 pm.

[fixitsan]

 

Removing the catalytic converter is bad.

It increases the overall pollution we have due to increasing road traffic, and on injected engines it gives a poor result on the global engine behavior - jerkiness and other bad mixture effects which requires increasing the CO level to be solved.

 

If there was not regulation about engine emissions we would leave an un-breathable world to our children.

It is already a mess, I think there is no reason to worsen it.

 

About the AIS : you're right it is open without ECU command and closed when activated by the ECU.

So to have if always closed, remove pin Br/R from the connector and wire it to the chassis.

 

 The engine is not wasting energy pumping gasses through the exhaust restriction now. AIS air is not degrading the effect of exiting exhaust gas momentum, which aids with cylinder filling on the inlet overlap Efficiency is higher, less throttle is required to produce the same work.

 

I am only speaking about my experience, YMMV

 

If I believed the pollution was an issue I would sell the bike, leisure riding is uneccesary ...

Edited by fixitsan, 25 May 2016 - 10:01 pm.

[frits44]

Good morning people,

 

Question , HOW DO YOU START YOUR ENGINE IN THE DIAG MODE  AND GO TEST RIDE PLEASE ??????????

 

TOO test the IAT sensor while I am driving the bike too see the difference in celsius.

 

Has somebody an answer ???????

 

Greetings, Frits from Holland

[frits44]

 

Removing the catalytic converter is bad.

It increases the overall pollution we have due to increasing road traffic, and on injected engines it gives a poor result on the global engine behavior - jerkiness and other bad mixture effects which requires increasing the CO level to be solved.

 

If there was not regulation about engine emissions we would leave an un-breathable world to our children.

It is already a mess, I think there is no reason to worsen it.

 

About the AIS : you're right it is open without ECU command and closed when activated by the ECU.

So to have if always closed, remove pin Br/R from the connector and wire it to the chassis.

 

JBX respect for that oke,

 

But why does the law and the fabrics work together and still make motorcycles with more than 200 HP and more ???

 

We do not need them, top speed over 300 km is very useless and cost lives.

 

Most of the new bikes run very worse because of all the new restrictions by law euro norm 4 and 5

 

This is my last new bike after this I go back too a carb bike.

 

I am also concert about electric cars and motorcycles, what do you do with the broken batteries.

 

I wish you a nice day.

 

Greetings, Frits from Holland

[frits44]

I will check my sensor, when i get the time.

 

I tend not to run very slowly, on the open road there is a lot of cold Scottish air helping the situation

 

I did the test ride for about 100 km, after that I make the video with slow drive  1200 rpm in second gear.

 

So the engine was hot and also the air box.

 

I did not measure the temperature in my air box in slow drive it was after the long ride.

 

I hope you know what I mean.

 

Greetings, Frits from Holland

[fixitsan]

 

 

 

I am also concert about electric cars and motorcycles, what do you do with the broken batteries.

 

 

 

Frits you make me feel guilty

 

This is my electric bike - no low speed lunging, even from 0rpm !

 

 

 

 

I made the battery using old, 'brioken' laptop batteries. Lots of work but it was worth it. Here is the assmebly and testing

 

 

 

With electric vehicles, when their battery is considered to be 'dead' it still has usually 60-70% of it's original capacity, so one good use for them is as a storage sytem for renewable energy, for when the sun isn't shining or the wind isn't blowing...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9KVD9ZGdgo&spfreload=10

[adamg]

My understanding is that the air temperature sensor does not work correctly in its standard position in slow traffic - it does not read the temperature of the air in the airbox, but is instead heated by the engine underneath and therefore adjusts the fuel to air ratio inappropriately.  If it is to properly read the temperature of the incoming air, it makes sense to move it to Frits' location away from the engine heat.  Have I misunderstood?

[fixitsan]

One of the links which Frits provided ppointsthat out, for a different model, but that leads me to think about Frits reason to insulate the underside of the airbox. I dont think airbox heating is an issue, passive heating of the temp sensor might be, but Frits test methodology is unclear, hence why im asking specific questions

[adamg]

Yes, I see what you mean. I'm going to do 'all' the mods - 1. airbox opening, 2. move temp sensor away from engine heat and 3. advance ignition by 4-5 degrees.  The bike is booked in to have the PC3 set up on a dyno in mid-June for a custom fuelling map. Hopefully this should lead to the ultimate in slow speed traffic running (the unfortunate frequent reality of commuting into central London), at least for a bike with aftermarket Delkevic cans and a K&N air filter!

 

Strangely, my other 'bike' is a single cylinder 250cc scooter, which has impeccable low speed running (you'd think it was a 4-cylinder engine). It is low capacity compared to the TDM but puts it shame for smooth running under 20mph in any gear.