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Burning Oil/piston Rings?


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#1 RobinHood

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 08:11 am

I am losing oil somehow. Nothing to be seen from the exhausts but I am getting a bit of a whiff sometimes. The level does keep dropping and my mpg is less than expected but not by much. I'm getting 49 avg down from 52.
I also hear a funny ticking sound from the engine thats not always audible, and starting has often taken two attempts.
A mate told me worn piston rings could be to blame.
Any advice on this and if anyone knows how expensive a job it is to get this checked out and/or rectified? Thanks in advance

#2 TDM4ever

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 08:13 am

How many miles has it done?



#3 RobinHood

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 08:33 am

Just under 47k

#4 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 09:42 am

Personally I would doubt it's the piston rings, but it is possible.  A cylinder compression test should tell you if the rings need replacing.  How much oil are you using ?


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#5 fixitsan

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 09:59 am

Have a look behind the front sprocket, the output shaft seals can fail. Wipe all the chain lube off that area, then go for a ride and inspect it again.


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#6 RobinHood

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 10:35 am

Thanks, i've never seen any puddles of oil form below the bike even after 2 or 3 days standing. I think I've topped it up about 400ml since its last change about 4k miles ago.

#7 fixitsan

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 10:44 am

Thanks, i've never seen any puddles of oil form below the bike even after 2 or 3 days standing. I think I've topped it up about 400ml since its last change about 4k miles ago.

 

That's not bad at all, in terms of consumption.

 

My mk2 leaked from the seal but only when the bike was running at speed, I was never sure if the oil pressure relief valve was sticking closed too long, but when the engine gets hot the oil can really thin out. Never had oil drops on the driveway under the bike but there was often signs that oil had flung out from behind the seal.

I replaced the seal and that improved, but overall the oil consumption didn't reduce by more than 10 or 20%

 

Behind the oil seal the oil is under a lot of pressure, unlike on some engines where the oil is it ambient pressure because it's just returning to the sump, with the TDM the back of the output shaft oil seal forms a cover the left side oil delivery gallery, so that's why there's a seal retaining plate  on the back of the tinplate cover in that area, to help keep the oil seal in place. Just after fitting a new seal I ran the engine up without the seal retainer in place and the seal just blew right off onto the floor !


Edited by fixitsan, 21 October 2017 - 10:46 am.

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#8 RobinHood

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 10:58 am

I'll try that fixitsan thanks, just waiting for this storm to stop. Poor bike is getting a salty spray right now. Will be renting a garage for the winter..poor gal

#9 RobinHood

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 11:04 am

Oh i figured that losing 10% of the oil in between changes was worrying. Am I being paranoid? Just didn't expect to need to that much. How about the ticking noise? Do you reckon i don't need to worry?

#10 dablik

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 11:26 am

Hm pretty unusual to burn oil on a 9r Robin, think it's worth your while to do as the lads suggest above, compression test and look at the output shaft seal, although that particular issue is normally reserved for the 8fiddly's bit of a mystery that.

 

As for the ticking from the engine, it could well be the cam chain on a rattle between teeth, search around the forum, very common, if you dont think it's that a better description of the noise may help the proper mech bods help you out... gotta say though most 9r's are bullet proof, mine certainly was, try not to worry about it to much i expect there is an explanation.


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#11 fixitsan

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 12:50 pm

Hm pretty unusual to burn oil on a 9r Robin, think it's worth your while to do as the lads suggest above, compression test and look at the output shaft seal, although that particular issue is normally reserved for the 8fiddly's bit of a mystery that..

 

 

I only just spotted it's a 900.

 

My 900 has almost 100,000 miles and does use a bit of oil, but then it does also run at high revs  <grin>


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#12 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 01:09 pm

100ml per 1000 miles isn't anything to worry about at all imho.


Mk2a 2000 in Silver. Top end Refurb @ 41100 miles, Scottoiler, Renthal Road High Bars, Up & Back Bar Risers, Bellypan, DL650 Handguards, Capt. Picard Bar Ends, House of Henty SS Wheel spacers, New Seat Cover Fitted. 58 MPG !!  Now owned by chrisbee !   Studley's mk2a Bloggerydoodaah !  Photos of my first MK1  Photos of my MK2a  TPLQHCSRSFC No. 1 Fan


#13 dablik

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 01:30 pm

 

 

I only just spotted it's a 900.

 

My 900 has almost 100,000 miles and does use a bit of oil, but then it does also run at high revs  <grin>

 

I think that engine's deserved an extra tipple by now ;)


Bigred mk1 R1 Calipers- Braided lines- Givi wing rack-Crash bungs- Hi vis bullets-PR2's- and a hoot to ride.

Quad 900 Silver Laser duo tech pipes-Scott oiler-Engine crash bars- Radiator mounted see me ring LED's-Datatool system 3 alarm -Centre stand- Extender fender-Renthal bars-Handle bar risers-Mirror extenders-BMW GS Handgaurds-Acumen uprated horn & Nautilus-Stainless steel Radiator guard-Givi wing rack-OEM screen-Yammy touring screen-MRA Vario-MRA Double bubble cut down for fast as fk riding-Tiger screen-Tank protector-Stomp grip panels-Optimate lead   Gone to Heaven  :sorry: 

 

1991 MK1 in need of some TLC watch this space   :) Sorted and on the Road Mick  :P  :P it's the bike that Jack built  ;) Gone to Heaven  :wub: 

 


#14 James

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 01:58 pm

... How about the ticking noise? Do you reckon i don't need to worry?


Camchain tensioner? Has the tensioner been changed for the upgraded one? see here... http://www.tdm-yamah...ex.php?page=ISS

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#15 fixitsan

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 03:17 pm

 

I think that engine's deserved an extra tipple by now ;)

 

 

For sure it has. Over winter it's also getting a new camchain and the valve clearances done.  Just because :wub: 


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#16 RobinHood

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 03:39 pm

I don't know if it has, perhaps mr henty or ramo would know , the bike is nb03 ghg 03 900 bought from ramo last year. I'll message them

#17 ramo

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 09:11 am

The new upgrade camchain tensioner fitted by saga lout and valve check done by Mr Henty at 26k, all was in order 



#18 dablik

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 10:47 am

I think i would be changing the oil and the filter then be very precise when you fill it up, check it periodically see if in fact it is a problem, follow CB's guide here, the pictures are gone but simple enough to follow. Have you twisted ya nuts tight Robin.

 

The mpg difference is minimal, your not going to maintain 52mpg constantly either, sounds fine to me though, that's 200 miles per tank, normal.

 

Just twigged it was Ramo's bike, a finer example did'nt exist, i know that bike very well as i chased it all over the north and, god was he anal about all his bikes, that was a well sorted 9r you ask me..

 

Woops....CB's guide


Edited by dablik, 22 October 2017 - 10:48 am.

Bigred mk1 R1 Calipers- Braided lines- Givi wing rack-Crash bungs- Hi vis bullets-PR2's- and a hoot to ride.

Quad 900 Silver Laser duo tech pipes-Scott oiler-Engine crash bars- Radiator mounted see me ring LED's-Datatool system 3 alarm -Centre stand- Extender fender-Renthal bars-Handle bar risers-Mirror extenders-BMW GS Handgaurds-Acumen uprated horn & Nautilus-Stainless steel Radiator guard-Givi wing rack-OEM screen-Yammy touring screen-MRA Vario-MRA Double bubble cut down for fast as fk riding-Tiger screen-Tank protector-Stomp grip panels-Optimate lead   Gone to Heaven  :sorry: 

 

1991 MK1 in need of some TLC watch this space   :) Sorted and on the Road Mick  :P  :P it's the bike that Jack built  ;) Gone to Heaven  :wub: 

 


#19 JBX

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 01:34 am

First check you have a genuine 900.

 

Many 850 owners hide their shame with a "900" sticker, with the strange belief it will change the bike : turn it from big whale to badass bike, attract top-models, improve top-speed, stop oil consumption, etc.

 

It just does not work !

 

In case this is a true 900, check oil leaks, there is a nasty one on the top-engine : the engine head cover breather when not correctly fitted may send some oil inside the air-filter box. The leak cannot be seen.

Check also the small screw also on the lhs top-engine, partly hidden by the frame. This screw is normally used after oil change to check oil is going to the top-engine. It should have a copper ring and be correctly tightened.

Then check the engine head cover gasket, may need a change after a valve clearance check.


top_640.png

 

 


#20 RobinHood

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 09:39 pm

Thanks for that, i got a strong whiff today of hot oil with still no visible leaks, I must check the top. I guess my next step is another oil change and monitoring. Yes dablik I believe i got very lucky buying a bike known well on this forum and with such great care in its life :-)


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