17 replies to this topic

[doboy]

just seen on the news that most local councils are going to drop the speed limit to 20mph in towns and villages ...bloody hell ..there not content with dropping rural roads were they are no houses from 60mph to 50mph....its going to take us forever to get anywere soon in this country ...however the spokesman did say that the police "cannot" enforce this as the national speed limit still remains at 30mph ?...so it looks like they cannot legaly enforce this limit ....

[dablik]

Well on the very same subject, our local council sent out questionares to it's residents asking us all to vote on the acceptance of a 20 mph inclusion zone, and it's probably about 5 miles square !!!!! so i'll probably break the speed limit on me bycicle

However, contrary to your info doboy,, our questionare stated signage for 20mph would be put up (assume this makes it legal)....like we have a feckin choice,, i really begin to wonder if having a motorbike for leisure time (dont commute) is honestly worth the expense anymore !!!

Edited by dablik, 01 January 2013 - 11:24 am.

[Saga Lout]

The setting of speed limits has been totally hijacked by the anti motorised vehicle brigade, despite the fact that only 8% of all accidents, and 15% of all fatal ones, are directly attributed to excessive speed. The vast majority of accidents are caused by bad driving because of drink, drugs, use of mobile phones, etc. etc. But hey, those drivers are more difficult to catch and it's much more easy to flood the roads with speed camera vans, nicking peeps for doing 35 in a 30 limit and collect 60 quid for every poor sod who's unlucky to be caught. And still they will bang on about reducing accidents for years to come yet not do anything about the real causes because that means putting more funds into proper traffic police.

With regards riding a bike, I only really keep mine for touring in Europe as its certainly not much fun riding in the UK anymore and especially in the south east because all the roads are so bloody congested. In 2012 I rode 5100 miles and only about 1500 of those were in the UK .

[TKH]

Ours were just changed to 20, no warning. Some of the 20's I have to agree with - were kids play in the street, in front of schools but some others are plain stupid. Also, one of the roads I go to work on have always been national speed limit (60) and there isn't a bend on it that can't be taken at 60 even in a car. You guessed it they've knocked it down to 50. However, the tight narrow roads off it are 60. go figure.................... Makes you wonder if they company that makes the signs has it's hand up a few county decision makers backsides.

[Studley Ramrod]

The cycling brigade are also onboard.

The plan is to slow down all the b roads and then up the motorways to 80mph, then introduce tolls for motorways.

The motorways have now become so safe that the majority of fatal accidents now happen on a and b roads, so the obsession with reducing accidents is diverted accordingly.

[TDMick]

Councils will be given powers to 'enforce' the 20mph limit using average speed cameras at all entrances and exits to the selected local 20mph zones, then you'll get a penalty charge notice in the post.

It's all about the money

[TKH]

The cycling brigade are also onboard.

The motorways have now become so safe that the majority of fatal accidents now happen on a and b roads, so the obsession with reducing accidents is diverted accordingly.

What a bunch of muppets, changing the speed from 60 to 50 will never stop a drunken dickhead losing control and sticking his/her car in a hedge/tree/wall/other car at 70+mph - the type of accident that rarely takes place on a motorway.

Should be funny watching the pathetic efforts of councils trying to catch push bikes for going over 20mph. Looks like someone hasn't thought this out. Will push bikes thus have to have number plates? driving licenses? would points on your push bike license carry over to your car/bike license? At what age could they prosecute a push bike rider? If the speed limit applies to one vehicle but not another (ie motorised or non motorised) where does that put human rights and discrimination?

Would the average speed cameras catch you going towards them like the ones on motorways works or away as per gatso? If the former then bikes wouldn't be picked up or some way of picking up the rear would be needed.

And then, I blast down to my mates house doing 60, stop for a brew and blast back at 60 and won't exceed the average speed!

Me thinks it's time to sell the car, study and get a law degree, should make a fortune with all the loop-hole cases.

Edited by TKH, 01 January 2013 - 07:52 pm.

[slartybartfarst]

On one hand we generally have to take these changes and have little or no meaningful opportunity to object, the examples of successful protest to speed limit changes are few and far between. That said in the case of an urban 20 mph limit for most of us being able to exceed an average of 20mph would be seen as a result - isn't the average speed in central London less than 15mph? For most of us most of the time it won't make any difference and the chance of being done for speeding will be pretty limited.

However these changes, which seem to be aimed at looking like they're doing something, shouldn't be imposed when the evidence is so lacking. Even if a reduction were backed up by legislation that enforced a return to the original limit if it failed to show a result what would be the chances? They'd simply gerrymander the study to get the result they needed.

There are plenty of cases where the police at the very least said they couldn't see the point and were ignored. I objected to the proposed change of limit on the A515 from Buxton to Ashbourne. I should say if you don't know the road most of it is very rural, Roman in origin and that there have been no major changes or developments along it.

The legal framework for proposed changes is a farce. In the first place as I didn't live in Derbyshire I had to demonstrate why I should be allowed to object! The required publicity for the change amount to notices along the route - i.e. laminated A4 notices on the occasional lamppost or telegraph pole and notices buried in the local press. I never even got a reply to my objection and after the limit was introduced I got access to the council's consultation paper - in it the police made it clear they thought it un-necessary, likely to cause frustration (and thus a danger of increasing risk) and practically un-enforceable. If the council is willing to ignore their own professionals then we stand no chance.

Indeed the introduction of a 50mph limit across most of the Peak District has a very pernicious aspect to it in that the Road Safety Partnership spokesman, whilst not naming motorbikes made it clear that the reduction was aimed a small specific problem - a real case of sledge hammer to crack a nut.

Any one from my neck of the woods will remember the hoo haa over the installation and subsequent screw up with the average speed cameras on the Cat and Fiddle. Depending on who you listen to they've cost between £800,000 and £1.2 million.

I bring this up because I took a run over the Cat several weekends ago. I don't usually go near the place unless it's very early or not on a weekend. Sure enough I got overtaken by the usual bunch of follow my leader sportsbike riders. Thing is I was on one of the straighter bits climbing up to the pub and I had over 60mph on the clock. The first four bikes we're doing 20 or 30 faster but tail end charlie came passed like Guy Martin with a piece of raw ginger up his arse. Over the ton and then some. They were all pulled over at the pub as I tootled by - I guess to reduce their average speed - when the cameras were first switched on there was talk on the MCN website of doing just this. Once your beyond the pub heading towards Buxton busting the average speed is easy, I got stuck behind a 7.5 ton delivery van quite happily doing 55mph!

So any notion that this outrageous misuse of public money has stopped the problem is a joke - I've only found one Internet ref to someone being prosecuted and that was a car and possibly, given the info provided, caught by a mobile camera. And the cock-up when the cameras were installed seems not to have resulted in anyone being fired or shot etc etc - which would surely have happened in a private company.

Back in the summer I took a run over the Cat and there was marked police bike on patrol and everyone behaved. Given that the organisation that introduced the cameras made it clear that if 'this didn't work' the only other choice was 'banning bikes' we can guess the mindset of these people. When the 'problem' is clearly very specific to weekends in summer with good weather, that spend would have surely been more effectively used providing marked police patrols on days when it would likely be busy with bikes.

With all that said and the lack of evidence speed enforcement really works and given the stats that speed doesn't kill if you object Joe Public seems to just see you as a dangerous, irresponsible speed freak, no matter how measured and considered the argument. Not helped by the 'go to' organisation for a road safety quote - BRAKE.

Take a look at their website. Most of it seems common sense, wrapped in a desire that people should be safe - but dig a little deeper
http://www.brake.org...action/zero.htm
and it gets darn right Draconian. Sadly I also noticed their the 'facts' page is supported by Carol Nash!

Right, rant over and sorry for hijacking this topic!

Chris

[dapleb]

I took a run over the Cat

I did that too.....bloody thing decided that crouching was the best method of escaping Dangermouse....it was wrong. Poor cat.

[TinTin]

Example.
There is a stretch of country road approx 8 miles long I sometimes use between Bolton & Darwen which used to be 60mph. Perfectly safe at that speed.
About 5% of the population who we shall call dickheads drove at 80 plus and caused a lot of accidents. Some fatal.
The limit has been reduced to 50mph so 95% of the population now crawl along at 50.
The other 5% still do 80 plus. Where is the common sense these days.
Can we for once punish the ones who are causing the problems & leave everybody else alone.

[MarkyMark]

Lower the speed limit - to stop people ignoring speed limits....................................Cracking bit of logic.

[TDMick]

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[harvey krumpet]

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Hartside pass on a Sunday afternoon?

Your not alone genelmun. The same mentality exists down here in the Shaky Isles. Our gummint is following on the coat tails of the Aussies who are following on the UK coat tails so we now have average speed cameras, usually on high traffic, safe stretches of road, not accident hot spots and a draconian lowering of state highway speed limits to 80 or even 60 kmh at the merest hint of a curve.
What always cracks me up & something I take advantage of at every opportunity is the 100 kmh limit on tight, twisty and steep gravel roads which lace the whole country. I can turn off the main highway, limited to 80 kmh, onto a secondary gravel road & go banzai in 3 inches of pea gravel perfectly legally.
Over this holiday period & others through out the year the police enforce a blanket zero tolerance policy to anyone doing 4kmh over the posted limit. A couple of years ago when this started the police were cockahoop at a zero road toll over Easter holidays, they took all the credit with their "genius" policy. The fact that most of the country was getting hammered by a tropical storm & everyone stayed at home eluded them. The following year had the worst toll on record... Go figure.

[robelst]

It's all about the money

Your are probably right. According to NHS figures, it is estimated that there around 35,000 obesity-related deaths in England each year (in every 16 deaths), around 11,000 "preventable" deaths from alcohol abuse sand around 114,000 people die every year from smoking related diseases. Even when discounting the possible duplicates in these groups of lardy smoking alcoholics, you wonder why we bother at all with the handful of deaths in traffic. Still, it can be rather costly to breech speed-limits by a couple of miles, while it's totally free to stuff your face with the worst junk food & drinks, wake up in your own vomit from heavy drinking the night before (worryingly considered "cool" by many in this country) or smoking like a chimney. What's more, you get free support for doing all that, paid from the more than 110 billion NHS budget. A budget no doubt finananced by taxes raised from alcohol and tobacco - and speeding fines.

It's a privilege to live in a free country - still, sometimes it's hard to remember what freedom was all about again...?

[Rickystyx]

Being caught speeding or intoxicated on a push bike does count towards endorsements/points on your licence as you are in control of a vehicle (even though it is unmotorised), if you are caught speeding or riding in an dangerous manner you can be prosecuted and your license endorsed and you can be fined. The law relates to all road users no matter what sort of vehicle you are using and sadly default on a cycle has already precedence in our courts which has ended up with people having endorsements and points recorded sometimes even before they have a licence!

[Riggers]

Just been reading through these posts and thought I'd stick in my two pennyworth.

 

If your council proposes to reduce your area to 20mph and sends you a 'consultation' paper it's REALLY important that you fill the form in and express your view, and get like-minded people to do the same.  Here's why.....

 

Council sends out 100 forms (say). 90 households throw them away. 10 fill them in (mainly the 'pro' lobby 'cos they're the militant lot). 9 of the 10 want the 20 limit and 1 doesn't.

 

So in reality and on the above basis 91% of those consulted either don't want the limit or couldn't give a toss. Only 9% really want the 20 limit to happen.

 

 BUT the council will announce that 90% of the unspoiled, returned forms  are in favour of the 20mph limit and take it as the green light to go ahead.

 

Lies, damn lies and statistics!

 

Tony.

[ChrisG]

I'm with you on that. There was some mentione recently about our local council considering replacing a nearby zebra crossing with a traffic light controlled one (pellican?). The Mrs contact the council to ask about it, and more importantly how we register our opposition to it as I've never heard of an accident there (30mhp limit with at least 100 yards visability in both directions)and all it will do is slow up the road. Apparently someone locally has started a campaign to get it changed, so the council think this is what the people want, despite 99% of the locals being perfectly happy with the current setup.

[Readmarx]

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