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#1 TKH

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Posted 20 November 2021 - 01:54 pm

I've just changed the chain and sprockets on my 9'er. I've fitted a DID chain,  AFAM rear sprocket and ognibene front sprocket with one less tooth.

 

That all went ok as far as I know but I get a whine, which increases with speed, that appears to come from the chain and sounds like the chain is too tight. I initially set the slack to 53mm but now have set it at 60mm.

 

Anyone any idea abut the whine?



#2 fixitsan

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Posted 20 November 2021 - 05:43 pm

Could it be one of the rear bearings, such as the sprocket carrier ?

Did you check them when you had the carrier off ?


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#3 dandywarhol

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Posted 20 November 2021 - 05:57 pm

Did the original front have the rubber noise damping cushions? 


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#4 wicklamulla

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Posted 22 November 2021 - 06:41 am

smaller front sprocket may accelerate wear on the nylon chain guides affixed to the forward section of the swingarm. Cud this also be the cause of the whine?


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#5 TKH

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Posted 22 November 2021 - 01:22 pm

Could it be one of the rear bearings, such as the sprocket carrier ?
Did you check them when you had the carrier off ?


No I didn't. Eveything was fine and "quiet" before I replaced the chain and sprockets so didn't think to check anything. I'll have a look, thanks.

Did the original front have the rubber noise damping cushions?


Yes and that's partly why I decided to replace with the ognibene with the cushions. Actually it was the original part. The bike's only done 33k.

smaller front sprocket may accelerate wear on the nylon chain guides affixed to the forward section of the swingarm. Cud this also be the cause of the whine?


I hadn't thought of that. Thanks I'll have a look.

#6 chrisr

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Posted 27 November 2021 - 08:35 pm

Did you sort it?

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#7 TKH

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Posted 19 December 2021 - 07:32 pm

To date, no. I bought a new normal size sprocket and fitted that, no change. I did find that the chain was tighter than when I had locked it all up so I tried removing everything and starting again, no change, so tomorrow (weather permitting) I plan to check out that my torque wrench is accurate enough and thus that my rear wheel nut is tight enough. The rear wheel nut is the only other thing I can think of. If it isn't that I've no idea. I will report back.



#8 steve27bha

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Posted 19 December 2021 - 11:26 pm

Wheels out of line and tyre rubbing somewhere?

Rear hugger in contact with the tyre?

Summat rubbing the rear disk, or misplaced pads?

 

I would take the rear wheel out, check all you can see, take chain off front sprocket and run in gear, carefully replace and set everything, run in gear dragging the back brake.

 

The only thing the above does not check is the output bearing behind the front sprocket - bad news if it's that. Been there, fixed that, on a Kawa Z400J.


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#9 TKH

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Posted 02 January 2022 - 04:49 pm

Thanks for the comments guys.

 

So, it is the chain tightening up. I've tried:

 

A different torque wrench in case mine was under tightening - no change

Taking the wheel off and re-installing and adjusting

Over slackening the chain

Removing wheel, disc caliper and giving everything a good clean in case the was any grease/dirt hampering things the re-assemble and adjust.

Talking to a couple of guys I know with bikes to see if anything came up on their forums.

 

All of the above have made no difference. The chain tightens up within 2-300 yards. I have no more ideas. Help!



#10 wicklamulla

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Posted 02 January 2022 - 08:55 pm

rear sprocket carrier bearing?


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#11 curlylegend

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Posted 02 January 2022 - 11:03 pm

Thanks for the comments guys.

 

So, it is the chain tightening up. I've tried:

 

A different torque wrench in case mine was under tightening - no change

Taking the wheel off and re-installing and adjusting

Over slackening the chain

Removing wheel, disc caliper and giving everything a good clean in case the was any grease/dirt hampering things the re-assemble and adjust.

Talking to a couple of guys I know with bikes to see if anything came up on their forums.

 

All of the above have made no difference. The chain tightens up within 2-300 yards. I have no more ideas. Help!

 

This seems to defy all logic !   Best of Luck finding out what it is.  Would it be possible to re-instate the old components ?



#12 steve27bha

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Posted 03 January 2022 - 12:29 am

After the chain has tightened up (presumably from a correct slack adjustment with the axle alignment bolts set correcty) is there a gap between the axle carrier blocks and the chain adjustment bolts?

If not the axle has not moved in the swingarm..

 

I'll repeat my earlier suggestion - the rear axle is out of alignment - or the adjustment bolts are not set in contact with the axle carrier blocks.

 

Here's a really left field suggestion - the chain and sprockets are of differrent width or pitch.


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#13 Snowbird

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Posted 03 January 2022 - 10:03 am

Spin it to check the sprockets are not concentric, they could just be made wrong.


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#14 Catteeclan

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Posted 03 January 2022 - 10:38 am

This I going to be an interesting fix when found.
I'm guessing you've already checked, new chain for tight spots, sprocket carrier bearings and the spacer that can drop out that fits in-between the carrier and wheel bearings, engine mounting bolts tight and the final drive bearing.


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#15 TKH

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Posted 03 January 2022 - 05:14 pm

 

This seems to defy all logic !   Best of Luck finding out what it is.  Would it be possible to re-instate the old components ?

I can but they're a bit rusty! although it might be worth it to see if it is the new stuff.

Thanks


rear sprocket carrier bearing?

 I'll give that a go tomorrow, too dark now.

Thanks


Edited by TKH, 03 January 2022 - 05:21 pm.


#16 TKH

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Posted 03 January 2022 - 05:23 pm

After the chain has tightened up (presumably from a correct slack adjustment with the axle alignment bolts set correcty) is there a gap between the axle carrier blocks and the chain adjustment bolts?

If not the axle has not moved in the swingarm..

 

I'll repeat my earlier suggestion - the rear axle is out of alignment - or the adjustment bolts are not set in contact with the axle carrier blocks.

 

Here's a really left field suggestion - the chain and sprockets are of differrent width or pitch.

 

 

Yes chain correctly set. No gap, to be sure I purposely set it all up slack so that I had to pull the wheel back to tighten the chain.

Axle moving has been my thought but I don't know how. The nut is tightened to 154nm (just over what my manual says).

I backed everything off and re-aligned the axle using the markings on the swingarm.

I'll check chain and sprockets again tomorrow.

Thanks


This I going to be an interesting fix when found.
I'm guessing you've already checked, new chain for tight spots, sprocket carrier bearings and the spacer that can drop out that fits in-between the carrier and wheel bearings, engine mounting bolts tight and the final drive bearing.

I'll re-check for any tight spots, carrier bearings tomorrow. The spacer is in there. Mmm engine mounting bolts, they should be fine but I've not checked them. Will do tomorrow along with the bearings.

Thanks.



#17 Catteeclan

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Posted 04 January 2022 - 08:11 am

Just another thing, when tightening the axle bolt I always pull the chain to the swing arm to pull the axle against the adjuster bolts.


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#18 steve27bha

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Posted 04 January 2022 - 05:02 pm

TKH, two responses to your reply:

 

Yes chain correctly set. No gap, to be sure I purposely set it all up slack so that I had to pull the wheel back to tighten the chain.

 

That's not quite what I was asking. After the chain has tightened itself, is there a gap between the axle block and the adjuster bolt?

 

 

I backed everything off and re-aligned the axle using the markings on the swingarm.

 

The swingarm markings can be faulty and not equal. The usual recommendation is to use a direct method to check alignment, such as the "string method". I use a pair of long fluorescent tubes bungeed to the back wheel and resting on a slippery wooden edge at the front..

 

Here's another idea - is the front sprocket mounted the right way round? (but I'm not sure if there actually is a difference!)

Check the full drive train parts and bearings against a parts fiche / workshop manual.

Have you repeated the "adjust chain / ride bike / find chain is now tighter than set" routine? - without changing anything else and measuring in exactly the same way.


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#19 TKH

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Posted 04 January 2022 - 09:39 pm

 

This seems to defy all logic !   Best of Luck finding out what it is.  Would it be possible to re-instate the old components ?

 

I forgot, the chain was cut off with angle grinder so cant try that but will swap sprockets if I can't get anything else to work.



#20 TKH

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Posted 04 January 2022 - 10:14 pm

So, I've checked some of the things today:

 

1. Chain has no tight spots, checked every link to be sure.

2. The chain meshes well with the rear sprocket (yet to check the front sprocket)

3. Engine mounting bolts are nice and tight

4. Checking the two wheel bearings I finger checked for damage and then with the wheel on, side to side and up and down( if that makes sense). There was no movement with nut tightened.

5. The chain adjusters were against the alloy stops both before and after testing (i.e. when everything tightened up).

 

I'll have another look at the small sprocket tomorrow. I thought it was uniform on each side but will double check.

I've had the bike since almost new (couple thou miles) so bearings, seals, spacers are factory spec.

I have done the check/set/repeat but give I've done all the checking everyone has been so kind to provide I'll I'll have another look at the small sprocket tomorrow.

I thought it was uniform on each side but will check.

I'll see if I can find two long straight edges to check everything is in line.

 

If I've missed responding to anyone's input, sorry!

 

Steve - I guess you're and electrician by your response? My dad was one and that's the sort of thing he would have said.


Edited by TKH, 05 January 2022 - 12:47 pm.



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