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No Electrical Power On A Mk1


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#1 g650xtdm

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 08:37 pm

I went to take my bike out today.  I turned the key and the voltage meter came on (aftermarket).  I went to start it and everything died.  Everything. 

 

The battery is fine.  There is voltage going to the ignition switch and the switch seemed to test fine (continuity test).  The kill switch seemed ok as well. 

 

I'm assuming there is a relay somewhere that is the culprit, but I am stumped.  Does any have a Mk1 wiring diagram? 

 

One thing I did notice was the main fuse block had voltage at the main fuse when the key was off.  When the key is on, that voltage goes away.  The other circuits have no voltage with the key on or off. 

 

Thanks for any help you can provide.



#2 oldman

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 09:30 pm

Check battery terminals,earths also see if the bike turns over when rocked in gear.



#3 g650xtdm

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 11:14 pm

The cables appear to be tight.  I haven't removed the tank, but just lifted it enough to access the battery.  That was actually the first thing I checked.  I do get voltage at the plug for the ignition switch, so power is heading out of the battery.  The ground that I could see without taking off the tanks were all good too. 

 

Just to clarify, there is zero power to anything (no dash lights, no lighting).  I haven't rocked the motor, but I don't think it is a stuck starter as there would still be power to the lights.  Or were you suggesting something else?



#4 wicklamulla

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 07:16 am

flush oot the ignition switch with contact cleaner,  re-insert the key and wiggle it about and see if that helps.


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#5 dablik

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 09:02 am

Studley had a cable in the ignition switch work itself loose which he had to resolder, but i would be pulling all connections for a look see, if you have power it's got to be cable related i would think.

 

Edit... it may have actually been the bottom of the key switch contacts now i think on, worth a look at it as well.


Edited by dablik, 20 March 2019 - 09:04 am.

Bigred mk1 R1 Calipers- Braided lines- Givi wing rack-Crash bungs- Hi vis bullets-PR2's- and a hoot to ride.

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#6 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 10:10 am

Yeah, try wiggling the wiring that enters the ignition barrel, see if it fires up whilst doing so.


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#7 g650xtdm

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 11:32 am

I disconnected the plug that comes from the ignition switch.  Using a multimeter, I saw the continuity change between the wires from open to closed, so I think the switch is fine.  I will spray some contact cleaner down there to be sure, but I think the switch is good.



#8 MickC

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 12:51 pm

I had power to my MK1s ignition but when I tried to start everything  went out sometimes power came on to the instruments sometimes not but when I tried to start everything off again.With mine it was corroded (as in turned green) conections to the main fuse in the fuse box under the seat,got hold of another main loom with a fuse box attatched and all good but about 7 months ago had ignition but no turning over which as yet havent got further than taking tank and bodywork off when other things took over



#9 g650xtdm

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 10:29 pm

Thanks.  I have the tanked propped up, but am avoiding removing it since it is full.  But I guess I will just have to dig in.  I saw another post where there was an issue at the fuse box (maybe it was you in another thread?).  I jiggled the wires going into the fuse box and it didn't change much.  I guess I can start there before removing the tank. 

 

After the plug for the ignition, there is a blue wire with a green tracer that gets 12v once the ignition is switched.  It goes into the main loom after the plug.  I can't see where it exits the main loom, but that wire is my main suspect.  I will also keep searching for a wiring diagram.



#10 dablik

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 07:41 am

Any help

Attached File  moto_schem_Yamaha_TDM850_1991_1995_moto.GIF   278.92KB   1 downloads


Bigred mk1 R1 Calipers- Braided lines- Givi wing rack-Crash bungs- Hi vis bullets-PR2's- and a hoot to ride.

Quad 900 Silver Laser duo tech pipes-Scott oiler-Engine crash bars- Radiator mounted see me ring LED's-Datatool system 3 alarm -Centre stand- Extender fender-Renthal bars-Handle bar risers-Mirror extenders-BMW GS Handgaurds-Acumen uprated horn & Nautilus-Stainless steel Radiator guard-Givi wing rack-OEM screen-Yammy touring screen-MRA Vario-MRA Double bubble cut down for fast as fk riding-Tiger screen-Tank protector-Stomp grip panels-Optimate lead   Gone to Heaven  :sorry: 

 

1991 MK1 in need of some TLC watch this space   :) Sorted and on the Road Mick  :P  :P it's the bike that Jack built  ;) Gone to Heaven  :wub: 

 


#11 g650xtdm

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 07:53 am

That does help.  It doesn't seem to be exactly what I saw, but it helps a lot.  I can't really tell the colors in that diagram, but my theory is it will be the wire that goes from the ignition switch to the fuse block.  (I wasn't sure if it went through a relay first, but the diagram indicates it directly supplies the fuse block.)  I know my fuse block is getting no power when the ignition switch is on.  Assuming the switch is good from my continuity check, it seems the problem is somewhere in that wire that feeds the fuse block.  I will dig into it more today.

 

Thanks!



#12 fixitsan

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 08:32 am

It's not unusual to see wires failing inside the insulation, where they're crimped to the end terminal. the insulation can be in perfect condition but might be the only thing holding the spade (are whatever type)  terminal onto the wiring harness.  If the insulation clamp part of the terminal has been squeezed on very tightly then that pressure and slight fatigue, over many years,  can in turn work with vibration and corossion to break the copper conductors. 

 

Or you might find someone else's previous repair to the harness, that can be common on older bikes too, sometimes people solder spade terminals onto the wiring loom, which is a big no-no. (It's why NASA specify only crimped connectors on space bound vehicles and toys, never soldered terminals)


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#13 g650xtdm

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 04:33 pm

Slow going, but some progress. The problem appears to be a short after the ignition switch.  The diagram dablik supplied has been helpful, but it doesn't exactly portray what I am seeing.  Out of my ignition switch, I have three wires, not four.  (red/power, brown to the fuse box, and blue/red)  What I think is happening is that when the switch is ON, the short on the blue/red wire causes all the voltage to go there.  So no voltage travels down the brown wire back to the fuse box. 

 

If I remove the blue/red wire from the plug, the fuse box gets power.  So at least now I know a general idea where the fault is.  In looking at the diagram, I still don't see any obvious suspects.  I have replaced several of the bulbs with LEDs, but that doesn't seem like it would be the problem. 

 

I'm still baffled, but at least now I have a smaller area to be baffled about.



#14 g650xtdm

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 04:49 pm

It's my ignitor/CDI. 

 

Not cheap either.  Doh!



#15 dablik

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 06:39 pm

No not cheap, and you'll probably have to buy from Europe XTZ750 to 95 should pass or check at ignitech for new price.

 

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Bigred mk1 R1 Calipers- Braided lines- Givi wing rack-Crash bungs- Hi vis bullets-PR2's- and a hoot to ride.

Quad 900 Silver Laser duo tech pipes-Scott oiler-Engine crash bars- Radiator mounted see me ring LED's-Datatool system 3 alarm -Centre stand- Extender fender-Renthal bars-Handle bar risers-Mirror extenders-BMW GS Handgaurds-Acumen uprated horn & Nautilus-Stainless steel Radiator guard-Givi wing rack-OEM screen-Yammy touring screen-MRA Vario-MRA Double bubble cut down for fast as fk riding-Tiger screen-Tank protector-Stomp grip panels-Optimate lead   Gone to Heaven  :sorry: 

 

1991 MK1 in need of some TLC watch this space   :) Sorted and on the Road Mick  :P  :P it's the bike that Jack built  ;) Gone to Heaven  :wub: 

 


#16 g650xtdm

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 07:07 pm

Thanks for the links Dablik.  Ebay has a few used ones from about $70-300.  It seems some other Yamaha ignitors may work.  I saw a post on a MZ forum that listed two other units that work - although I assume they have some small differences in timing.

 

The Ignitech site looks interesting although a bit hard to navigate.  I'm guessing I would need the "sparker TCI".  Do you have any firsthand experience with them?  The prices don't seem too bad. 

 

(I should also note, I am assuming it is a bad ignitor since everything is fine when it is unplugged.  But I need to make sure there isn't a short somewhere after the ignitor.)


Edited by g650xtdm, 23 March 2019 - 07:08 pm.


#17 g650xtdm

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 08:19 pm

Arrrrgh!  Now I can't duplicate what I was seeing when I unplugged the ignitor.  Seems like it might be an issue inside the harness.  Need to step away from it for awhile. 



#18 dablik

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 09:24 pm

not personally had experience from ignitech, think mh1848 bought one though ?

 

It could be the start/stop relay which is problematic, dont know why it's refered to as a " fuel pump" relay on a bike with a mechanical pump though, Haynes may have a test for it most likely, worth testing ,check number on yours before any purchase. It sits along side the flasher relay under the tank.

 

Edit... that relay was a source of start problems for me until replaced.


Edited by dablik, 23 March 2019 - 09:26 pm.

Bigred mk1 R1 Calipers- Braided lines- Givi wing rack-Crash bungs- Hi vis bullets-PR2's- and a hoot to ride.

Quad 900 Silver Laser duo tech pipes-Scott oiler-Engine crash bars- Radiator mounted see me ring LED's-Datatool system 3 alarm -Centre stand- Extender fender-Renthal bars-Handle bar risers-Mirror extenders-BMW GS Handgaurds-Acumen uprated horn & Nautilus-Stainless steel Radiator guard-Givi wing rack-OEM screen-Yammy touring screen-MRA Vario-MRA Double bubble cut down for fast as fk riding-Tiger screen-Tank protector-Stomp grip panels-Optimate lead   Gone to Heaven  :sorry: 

 

1991 MK1 in need of some TLC watch this space   :) Sorted and on the Road Mick  :P  :P it's the bike that Jack built  ;) Gone to Heaven  :wub: 

 


#19 g650xtdm

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 11:52 pm

I totally forgot I had a Haynes manual, lol.  Complete with the diagram you provided! 

 

I appreciate the tip.  I checked out the relay and it tested good.  I guess I will comb through the electrical section of the Haynes manual because staring at the bike isn't doing me any good.  I should have paid more attention once I got power, but I was sure it was the ignitor since everything powered up once I disconnected it. 

 

I'm still confidant there is a short somewhere.  I guess I can conclude the short is upstream of the ignitor and start/stop relay as unplugging them didn't change anything. 



#20 dablik

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 09:37 am

Well it sounds like your heading towards finding the problem at least, electrics are not my forte and i was quite frustrated with my mk1, perserverance paid off though.

 

If you need more info re the ignitech stuff i'm sure mh1848 wont mind you sending a pm, he was quite helpful to me :good:


Bigred mk1 R1 Calipers- Braided lines- Givi wing rack-Crash bungs- Hi vis bullets-PR2's- and a hoot to ride.

Quad 900 Silver Laser duo tech pipes-Scott oiler-Engine crash bars- Radiator mounted see me ring LED's-Datatool system 3 alarm -Centre stand- Extender fender-Renthal bars-Handle bar risers-Mirror extenders-BMW GS Handgaurds-Acumen uprated horn & Nautilus-Stainless steel Radiator guard-Givi wing rack-OEM screen-Yammy touring screen-MRA Vario-MRA Double bubble cut down for fast as fk riding-Tiger screen-Tank protector-Stomp grip panels-Optimate lead   Gone to Heaven  :sorry: 

 

1991 MK1 in need of some TLC watch this space   :) Sorted and on the Road Mick  :P  :P it's the bike that Jack built  ;) Gone to Heaven  :wub: 

 



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