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Chain And Sprocket Advice


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#1 gozer

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 01:21 pm

I bought a tidy(ish) `95 Mk1 about 6 years ago but other than hearing it run did nothing more than push it into the corner of the garage and leave it there till now. I decided to check it over and have found an issue with the front sprocket.

It is a replacement JT one. When I took the covers off, the nut was sitting loose at the bottom and the locking washer has worn to a huge oval where it was spinning loose around the output shaft. 

The issue is the sprocket thickness exactly matches the depth of the splines so there is no way to locate the lock washer on there with it and the threads of the nut only just catch, and certainly not enough to to nail it up to 70 of Newtons finest monkeys! 

Has somebody tried to fit a Mk2 sprocket? It has a kind of protruding boss on either side of the splines and has 17 teeth, should it be 16?  There is only around 6mm of thread on the end of the output shaft but it doesn`t look damaged, is that correct?

The chain is very stiff from standing so I might as well change the lot. Could someone recommend a cost effective (cheap) replacement set that will fit properly?

 

TIA



#2 steve27bha

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 03:21 pm

Wemoto site (https://www.wemoto.c...maha/tdm_850/95) shows a flat sided sprocket, and lists a retaining kit (https://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/tdm_850/95/picture/front_sprocket_retaining_nut_kit_%28oem%29) that is cheaper than either of the two parts!

 

The retaining nut has a recess to go over the ends of the splines.


TDM900A 2008/09 in use, with     gallery_179098_391_770.jpg sml_gallery_179098_391_1145.jpg  gallery_179098_391_1206.jpg gallery_179098_391_253.jpg gallery_179098_391_82.jpg gallery_179098_391_725.gif gallery_179098_391_797.jpg gallery_179098_391_1396.jpg gallery_179098_391_501.jpg gallery_179098_391_316.jpg  gallery_179098_391_1768.jpg gallery_179098_391_106.jpggallery_179098_391_2170.jpg gallery_179098_391_1373.jpg

 

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#3 Sabresdad

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 03:46 pm

Go onto the JT Sprockets website has all the specs of individual sprockets and which ones are interchangeable

#4 dapleb

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 04:02 pm

Another output shaft destroyed by JT.

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#5 gozer

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 01:27 pm

Thanks guys. :good:

Another output shaft destroyed by JT.

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#6 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 08:10 pm

mk1 should be a 16 front 44 rear. Have you tried cleaning the threads of the output shaft, or have you lost half of them already ?

 

And yeah, follow Steve's comment about the direction of the nut recess.  I have seen them fitted the wrong way around.


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#7 Catteeclan

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Posted 04 October 2022 - 05:24 am

Wasn't there thicker nut available, I fitted one to a friends Mk1 some years ago, might help.

Can't remember what Yam it was for. 
 


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#8 dapleb

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Posted 04 October 2022 - 05:50 am

It's YZF/FZR nut catte. 90179-18667-00
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#9 Snowbird

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Posted 04 October 2022 - 06:50 am

The 600 gen 1 fazer had an issue with sprocket nuts coming off and there was indeed a thicker nut introduced as a fix, I seem to recall the engine was based on the yzf600 thundercat.

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#10 gozer

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Posted 04 October 2022 - 11:03 am

mk1 should be a 16 front 44 rear. Have you tried cleaning the threads of the output shaft, or have you lost half of them already ?

 

And yeah, follow Steve's comment about the direction of the nut recess.  I have seen them fitted the wrong way around.

The threads that are there are clean and look ok, there just doesn`t seem to be enough to me to nail the nut up, unless the thickness of the threads in the nut is the same width and sits exactly flush with it of course.

 

The direction of the nut is what prompted the Q about the sprocket to start with because of the protruding boss on the sprocket not allowing the nut to do more than just about catch and no space for the tab washer. I`ll also have a look into that thicker nut mentioned above.

 

Is the 16 / 44 gearing optimum for the mk1? or has anybody found a better combination for a balance  of  acceleration v economy?



#11 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 04 October 2022 - 11:49 am

The recess on the nut should be touching the washer, not the flat side of the nut.

 

If all the threads are there on the output shaft, and the shaft splines aren't damaged, you'll be good to go with a new sprocket, washer and chunky nut.  iirc the chunky nut isn't cheap from mr Yamaha.

 

I've tried other combos but always go back to 16/44  for me it's where the vibes are in relation to touring speed that I like to get right.  My hands are f**cked lol.


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#12 Catteeclan

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Posted 04 October 2022 - 12:31 pm

It's YZF/FZR nut catte. 90179-18667-00

:good:


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#13 steve27bha

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Posted 04 October 2022 - 09:10 pm

gozer,

 

You do not seem to have got the message that your sprocket is wrong. It should not have a boss around the centre. A flat sided one will reveal the thread and allow the washer and nut on.

 

Go buy the sprocket and kit I linked to and report back if it does not work. Someone with a manual for your 850 can advise the torque for the nut.

 

Check a parts fiche or shop manual diagram to confirm the arrangement of bits.


TDM900A 2008/09 in use, with     gallery_179098_391_770.jpg sml_gallery_179098_391_1145.jpg  gallery_179098_391_1206.jpg gallery_179098_391_253.jpg gallery_179098_391_82.jpg gallery_179098_391_725.gif gallery_179098_391_797.jpg gallery_179098_391_1396.jpg gallery_179098_391_501.jpg gallery_179098_391_316.jpg  gallery_179098_391_1768.jpg gallery_179098_391_106.jpggallery_179098_391_2170.jpg gallery_179098_391_1373.jpg

 

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#14 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 05 October 2022 - 10:18 am

gozer,

 

You do not seem to have got the message that your sprocket is wrong. It should not have a boss around the centre. A flat sided one will reveal the thread and allow the washer and nut on.

 

Go buy the sprocket and kit I linked to and report back if it does not work. Someone with a manual for your 850 can advise the torque for the nut.

 

Check a parts fiche or shop manual diagram to confirm the arrangement of bits.

OEM Mk1 F sprocket has a cush drive and no boss, I bought an Ognibene F sprocket for my mk1, good fit on the splines and the cush drive does make it all a tad quieter. :)

 

70Nm torque. :good:


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#15 gozer

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Posted 05 October 2022 - 12:26 pm

gozer,

 

You do not seem to have got the message that your sprocket is wrong. It should not have a boss around the centre. A flat sided one will reveal the thread and allow the washer and nut on.

 

Go buy the sprocket and kit I linked to and report back if it does not work. Someone with a manual for your 850 can advise the torque for the nut.

 

Check a parts fiche or shop manual diagram to confirm the arrangement of bits.

 

 

Message received loud and clear! If you read my opening Q, you`ll see that it was a bit rhetorical. I could see it was wrong as the sprocket width exactly matched the spline width, leaving no room for the locking washer or for the nut to engage properly with the thread on the end of the output shaft. The kit that you linked to has all the info I wanted except for the sprocket thickness, which is what I was asking about. I already knew that it should be torqued to 70 Nm, but with such a short amount of thread I was trying to find out if 6 - 7 mm of thread length is correct. I`d already looked on Fowlers, CMSNL et al but they don`t show the thickness.

 

OEM Mk1 F sprocket has a cush drive  and the cush drive does make it all a tad quieter. :)

 

 

This answers the next Q I was about to ask, I assume that `cush drive` refers to the ones with a rubber damper bonded to the sides, and does it give a noticeable reduction in noise?



#16 Catteeclan

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Posted 05 October 2022 - 04:08 pm

 

 

Message received loud and clear! If you read my opening Q, you`ll see that it was a bit rhetorical. I could see it was wrong as the sprocket width exactly matched the spline width, leaving no room for the locking washer or for the nut to engage properly with the thread on the end of the output shaft. The kit that you linked to has all the info I wanted except for the sprocket thickness, which is what I was asking about. I already knew that it should be torqued to 70 Nm, but with such a short amount of thread I was trying to find out if 6 - 7 mm of thread length is correct. I`d already looked on Fowlers, CMSNL et al but they don`t show the thickness.

 

 

This answers the next Q I was about to ask, I assume that `cush drive` refers to the ones with a rubber damper bonded to the sides, and does it give a noticeable reduction in noise?

Bit sharp is our studey :lol:


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#17 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 05 October 2022 - 04:13 pm

 

 

Message received loud and clear! If you read my opening Q, you`ll see that it was a bit rhetorical. I could see it was wrong as the sprocket width exactly matched the spline width, leaving no room for the locking washer or for the nut to engage properly with the thread on the end of the output shaft. The kit that you linked to has all the info I wanted except for the sprocket thickness, which is what I was asking about. I already knew that it should be torqued to 70 Nm, but with such a short amount of thread I was trying to find out if 6 - 7 mm of thread length is correct. I`d already looked on Fowlers, CMSNL et al but they don`t show the thickness.

 

 

This answers the next Q I was about to ask, I assume that `cush drive` refers to the ones with a rubber damper bonded to the sides, and does it give a noticeable reduction in noise?

I would say yes it does, makes it all run a tad smoother.  Ognibene also do a cushty rear sprocket but mine was ok so I didn't get wan.  Sorry can't help with the boss thickness. 


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#18 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 05 October 2022 - 07:01 pm

Some info here Gozer  http://www.carpe-tdm...843&hl=ognibene


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#19 steve27bha

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Posted 05 October 2022 - 09:42 pm

 

....The kit that you linked to has all the info I wanted except for the sprocket thickness, which is what I was asking about. I already knew that it should be torqued to 70 Nm, but with such a short amount of thread I was trying to find out if 6 - 7 mm of thread length is correct. I`d already looked on Fowlers, CMSNL et al but they don`t show the thickness....

 

The chain is a 525, so the nominal width between the plates is 2.5 x 1/8" = 7.94mm. So the sprocket has to be at most that thick.

There is a table on the Wemoto site with chain widths but they quote a slightly smaller dimension of 7.85mm while giving exact widths for the 520 & 530 sizes.

 

The JT catalogue gives the boss thickness of a Mk2 4TXL sprocket as 10.8mm. The other dimensions are the same as a Mk1.

 

JT also do cushioned sprockets. Go see http://www.jtsprocke...ue/model/s3043/


Edited by steve27bha, 05 October 2022 - 09:47 pm.

TDM900A 2008/09 in use, with     gallery_179098_391_770.jpg sml_gallery_179098_391_1145.jpg  gallery_179098_391_1206.jpg gallery_179098_391_253.jpg gallery_179098_391_82.jpg gallery_179098_391_725.gif gallery_179098_391_797.jpg gallery_179098_391_1396.jpg gallery_179098_391_501.jpg gallery_179098_391_316.jpg  gallery_179098_391_1768.jpg gallery_179098_391_106.jpggallery_179098_391_2170.jpg gallery_179098_391_1373.jpg

 

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#20 gozer

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Posted 10 October 2022 - 01:40 pm

.

 

 

 

 

 

The JT catalogue gives the boss thickness of a Mk2 4TXL sprocket as 10.8mm. .

 

 

 

That makes sense as I measured the spline depth at 11mm.

 

Thanks for all the pointers chaps. :good:




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