Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Which Piston Ring Is Which ?


  • Please log in to reply
29 replies to this topic

#1 hammerman

hammerman

    Knight of Postsalot

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 705 posts
  • TDM model: 1992

Posted 21 March 2010 - 02:21 pm

Just opened a pack of new Yamaha piston rings, there are two rings the same size one is grey coloured marked with a large capital 'T' the other is grey with a silver rim marked with a small capital 'T'

Which is the top ring and which is the middle ring ?

The old ones that came out looked identical

Edited by hammerman, 21 March 2010 - 06:35 pm.


#2 Guest_celticbiker_*

Guest_celticbiker_*
  • Guests

Posted 21 March 2010 - 03:55 pm

This topic title is misleading you know! blush.gif

#3 hammerman

hammerman

    Knight of Postsalot

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 705 posts
  • TDM model: 1992

Posted 21 March 2010 - 06:37 pm

topic title changed for the benefit of those with a 'ring' fixation rotflmmfao.gif
QUOTE(celticbiker @ Sun 21st Mar 2010, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This topic title is misleading you know! blush.gif
and adding to the topic, it seems that in many bikes the top ring is a chrome one and the middle one a plain grey steel one. So I think the same should follow for a TDM ?

#4 Studley Ramrod

Studley Ramrod

    Monkey Boys Monkey

  • Root Admin(A)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,790 posts
  • Location:HELLO ! I'm in the Library...Notts
  • TDM model: 1993

Posted 21 March 2010 - 06:57 pm

I put the one with the big T at the top. I never noticed a smaller T on the other blink.gif

Mk2a 2000 in Silver. Top end Refurb @ 41100 miles, Scottoiler, Renthal Road High Bars, Up & Back Bar Risers, Bellypan, DL650 Handguards, Capt. Picard Bar Ends, House of Henty SS Wheel spacers, New Seat Cover Fitted. 58 MPG !!  Now owned by chrisbee !   Studley's mk2a Bloggerydoodaah !  Photos of my first MK1  Photos of my MK2a  TPLQHCSRSFC No. 1 Fan


#5 eerik

eerik

    sticking around

  • Member
  • 26 posts
  • Location:Estonia
  • TDM model: none yet

Posted 21 March 2010 - 07:12 pm

Yest T-means TOP
In first rinng is too market T letter near a gap if you look closely. But on first rind it not so important which is top or bottom side up
But on second ring this is realy important if you mount it wrongly your bike will burn oil
And ofcourse gap positions must be oposite

#6 Studley Ramrod

Studley Ramrod

    Monkey Boys Monkey

  • Root Admin(A)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,790 posts
  • Location:HELLO ! I'm in the Library...Notts
  • TDM model: 1993

Posted 21 March 2010 - 07:32 pm

Your right, I just checked the Haynes. Dunno how I missed reading that.

Are you sure about the oil though ? I wudda thought the lower 3 part 'oil control ring' wudda controlled the oil getting into the cylinder.

Mk2a 2000 in Silver. Top end Refurb @ 41100 miles, Scottoiler, Renthal Road High Bars, Up & Back Bar Risers, Bellypan, DL650 Handguards, Capt. Picard Bar Ends, House of Henty SS Wheel spacers, New Seat Cover Fitted. 58 MPG !!  Now owned by chrisbee !   Studley's mk2a Bloggerydoodaah !  Photos of my first MK1  Photos of my MK2a  TPLQHCSRSFC No. 1 Fan


#7 hammerman

hammerman

    Knight of Postsalot

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 705 posts
  • TDM model: 1992

Posted 22 March 2010 - 11:19 am

I called Yamaha this morning (01932 358000 if anyone needs it)

They took the bike frame number and the part code for the rings, went away for two hours then rang back.

The grey ring with the silver rim /lip is the top ring and the plain grey one is the middle ring. On both rings the letter 'T' should face upwards.

Edited by hammerman, 22 March 2010 - 04:35 pm.


#8 Studley Ramrod

Studley Ramrod

    Monkey Boys Monkey

  • Root Admin(A)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,790 posts
  • Location:HELLO ! I'm in the Library...Notts
  • TDM model: 1993

Posted 22 March 2010 - 12:23 pm


Looks like I've fook'd up blink.gif bugger !




Mk2a 2000 in Silver. Top end Refurb @ 41100 miles, Scottoiler, Renthal Road High Bars, Up & Back Bar Risers, Bellypan, DL650 Handguards, Capt. Picard Bar Ends, House of Henty SS Wheel spacers, New Seat Cover Fitted. 58 MPG !!  Now owned by chrisbee !   Studley's mk2a Bloggerydoodaah !  Photos of my first MK1  Photos of my MK2a  TPLQHCSRSFC No. 1 Fan


#9 hammerman

hammerman

    Knight of Postsalot

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 705 posts
  • TDM model: 1992

Posted 22 March 2010 - 12:42 pm

Sorry Studley,

They are the same size though, I guess the thing I would be worried about was whether or not you fitted both rings with the letter 'T' facing up.


The chrome coating on the top ring apparently protects it from by products of the combustion process (presumably carbon ?)



#10 eerik

eerik

    sticking around

  • Member
  • 26 posts
  • Location:Estonia
  • TDM model: none yet

Posted 22 March 2010 - 01:15 pm

QUOTE(Studley Ramrod @ Sun 21st Mar 2010, 09:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Your right, I just checked the Haynes. Dunno how I missed reading that.

Are you sure about the oil though ? I wudda thought the lower 3 part 'oil control ring' wudda controlled the oil getting into the cylinder.


On second ring working area surface is with angle its have scraping effect, when piston moves down it scrapping remaining oil from wals to the oil rings. And then it moves up it will pass the oil trough ring.
Then you mount it upward it will scrap oilt to the combusion chamber.

And on pic rings mounted wrongly. First ring from Up must be a ring with crome surface, second ring is black/gray scrapper ring.

Edited by eerik, 22 March 2010 - 02:04 pm.


#11 Studley Ramrod

Studley Ramrod

    Monkey Boys Monkey

  • Root Admin(A)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,790 posts
  • Location:HELLO ! I'm in the Library...Notts
  • TDM model: 1993

Posted 22 March 2010 - 02:00 pm

sad.gif

Dear Mr Haynes...........how could you ? you evil sick man mad.gif

How can something so obviously important not even be mentioned ?

I'm not making excuses and I admit to reading the Haynes info in the wrong way, but even so, I doubt the mistake would have happened if I'd been informed of the differences between the 2 compression rings and the correct location for each. The Haynes portrays them as being identical.

Assumptive Studley Strikes Again !

Makes me wonder if other rebuilds have been done the same as mine, using the fookin' haynes.

Thanks for the honest info guys smile.gif

Mk2a 2000 in Silver. Top end Refurb @ 41100 miles, Scottoiler, Renthal Road High Bars, Up & Back Bar Risers, Bellypan, DL650 Handguards, Capt. Picard Bar Ends, House of Henty SS Wheel spacers, New Seat Cover Fitted. 58 MPG !!  Now owned by chrisbee !   Studley's mk2a Bloggerydoodaah !  Photos of my first MK1  Photos of my MK2a  TPLQHCSRSFC No. 1 Fan


#12 eerik

eerik

    sticking around

  • Member
  • 26 posts
  • Location:Estonia
  • TDM model: none yet

Posted 22 March 2010 - 02:19 pm

QUOTE(Studley Ramrod @ Mon 22nd Mar 2010, 04:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
sad.gif

Dear Mr Haynes...........how could you ? you evil sick man mad.gif

How can something so obviously important not even be mentioned ?

I'm not making excuses and I admit to reading the Haynes info in the wrong way, but even so, I doubt the mistake would have happened if I'd been informed of the differences between the 2 compression rings and the correct location for each. The Haynes portrays them as being identical.

Assumptive Studley Strikes Again !

Makes me wonder if other rebuilds have been done the same as mine, using the fookin' haynes.

Thanks for the honest info guys smile.gif


Exactly same thing is happened with my friend on his bike.
He assebled bike by manual but there is not mentioned which side up must be. First he thought that rings is must to break in, but after 5000km he still saw/smell oil smoke
He even took out a head and bring it to workshop , thought maybe some valve oil sealer is not in place.

I read a XTZ 750 manual and there is note, which ring first, second, and which side up.
I am recommend to read XTZ 750 manual too. Engines are allmost same.

Edited by eerik, 22 March 2010 - 02:20 pm.


#13 dapleb

dapleb

    Monkey Boy

  • Root Admin(A)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,145 posts
  • Location:The home of morris dancin
  • TDM model: 1990

Posted 22 March 2010 - 02:47 pm

The mkI Yamaha workshop manual also just says place the T at the top. No specification of upper/mid.

Luckily having zero memory and very little processing power I only put new things on as I tek the old uns arf so got them the right way round.
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"

If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117

Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.

Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.

#14 Studley Ramrod

Studley Ramrod

    Monkey Boys Monkey

  • Root Admin(A)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,790 posts
  • Location:HELLO ! I'm in the Library...Notts
  • TDM model: 1993

Posted 22 March 2010 - 03:59 pm

No prizes for guessing what my next 100 bike related purchase will be then........again !

If my rings have been fitted the correct way up, which I think they were, could I simply swap them about ? done 400 miles on 'em so far ? And the cylinders had just been honed. Worth a try ?

Looks like I picked a bad day to quit smoking tongue.gif

EDIT: Looks like I did it 'The Ring Way Round'

Edited by Studley Ramrod, 22 March 2010 - 04:10 pm.

Mk2a 2000 in Silver. Top end Refurb @ 41100 miles, Scottoiler, Renthal Road High Bars, Up & Back Bar Risers, Bellypan, DL650 Handguards, Capt. Picard Bar Ends, House of Henty SS Wheel spacers, New Seat Cover Fitted. 58 MPG !!  Now owned by chrisbee !   Studley's mk2a Bloggerydoodaah !  Photos of my first MK1  Photos of my MK2a  TPLQHCSRSFC No. 1 Fan


#15 dapleb

dapleb

    Monkey Boy

  • Root Admin(A)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,145 posts
  • Location:The home of morris dancin
  • TDM model: 1990

Posted 22 March 2010 - 04:50 pm

Have yo noticed any diffs SR? Increase in oil consumption? Smokey?
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"

If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117

Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.

Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.

#16 Studley Ramrod

Studley Ramrod

    Monkey Boys Monkey

  • Root Admin(A)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,790 posts
  • Location:HELLO ! I'm in the Library...Notts
  • TDM model: 1993

Posted 22 March 2010 - 05:42 pm

QUOTE(dapleb @ Mon 22nd Mar 2010, 04:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Have yo noticed any diffs SR? Increase in oil consumption? Smokey?


Haven't seen any smoke, I'll go an have a look in a bit, didn't notice any yesterday on me 300 miler. I'll check the oil level too.

Was ya thinking 'run it 'til the smoke starts then fix it' sorta thing ?

Mk2a 2000 in Silver. Top end Refurb @ 41100 miles, Scottoiler, Renthal Road High Bars, Up & Back Bar Risers, Bellypan, DL650 Handguards, Capt. Picard Bar Ends, House of Henty SS Wheel spacers, New Seat Cover Fitted. 58 MPG !!  Now owned by chrisbee !   Studley's mk2a Bloggerydoodaah !  Photos of my first MK1  Photos of my MK2a  TPLQHCSRSFC No. 1 Fan


#17 dapleb

dapleb

    Monkey Boy

  • Root Admin(A)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,145 posts
  • Location:The home of morris dancin
  • TDM model: 1990

Posted 22 March 2010 - 06:19 pm

I would certainly do some more investigation afore digging it all out again. If you have em the right way oop which you have??....T at the top and it don't use any oil then is there actually a problem? Maybe you lose the protection from explosion of the top ring. doubtfull.gif


"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"

If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117

Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.

Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.

#18 hammerman

hammerman

    Knight of Postsalot

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 705 posts
  • TDM model: 1992

Posted 22 March 2010 - 09:25 pm

I was thinking about this too Studley, realistically how long is it going to take for that top ring to get coked up? 20,000 maybe 30,000 miles ? If you use a fuel additive to prevent it coking up or if you are feeling brave pour some water down the carbs with the engine running. The coke may not be an issue anyway. (I'm still assuming the chrome coating is to prevent the coke sticking to it).

This seems to get mentioned fairly often

http://www.seafoamsa...-treatment.html

#19 Studley Ramrod

Studley Ramrod

    Monkey Boys Monkey

  • Root Admin(A)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,790 posts
  • Location:HELLO ! I'm in the Library...Notts
  • TDM model: 1993

Posted 22 March 2010 - 10:01 pm

Cheers peeps, I'll look into it and do a couple of checks. I was planning on removing the engine over summer for other reasons so I will probably leave it 'til then to renew the rings if they're showing signs of premature wear.

Mk2a 2000 in Silver. Top end Refurb @ 41100 miles, Scottoiler, Renthal Road High Bars, Up & Back Bar Risers, Bellypan, DL650 Handguards, Capt. Picard Bar Ends, House of Henty SS Wheel spacers, New Seat Cover Fitted. 58 MPG !!  Now owned by chrisbee !   Studley's mk2a Bloggerydoodaah !  Photos of my first MK1  Photos of my MK2a  TPLQHCSRSFC No. 1 Fan


#20 dablik

dablik

    Master Intermediate Fettlin' Award 2018

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,412 posts
  • Location:Bootleshire
  • TDM model: 1991

Posted 31 August 2019 - 03:56 pm

Reboot and update plus pics, might be helpful to somebody.

Attached File  20190831_105219.jpg   243.95KB   0 downloads

Attached File  20190831_105249.jpg   125.54KB   0 downloads


Bigred mk1 R1 Calipers- Braided lines- Givi wing rack-Crash bungs- Hi vis bullets-PR2's- and a hoot to ride.

Quad 900 Silver Laser duo tech pipes-Scott oiler-Engine crash bars- Radiator mounted see me ring LED's-Datatool system 3 alarm -Centre stand- Extender fender-Renthal bars-Handle bar risers-Mirror extenders-BMW GS Handgaurds-Acumen uprated horn & Nautilus-Stainless steel Radiator guard-Givi wing rack-OEM screen-Yammy touring screen-MRA Vario-MRA Double bubble cut down for fast as fk riding-Tiger screen-Tank protector-Stomp grip panels-Optimate lead

 

1991 MK1 in need of some TLC watch this space  :) Sorted and on the Road Mick :P :P it's the bike that Jack built ;)



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users