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Fairing Mount Repair Blocks, Anyone Interested ?


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#41 PeterM91

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 06:43 pm

 

 Are they ABS ? I've already tried an ABS pipe cement which didn't do very well. in saying that it was over a year old...maybe some new would work.

 

Epoxy and/or fibreglass resin should be up to the job too

FWIW

The fairing is really ABS. Except the top inner fairing of a TDM900, which is AES (whatever that may be).

In my experience ABS-welding gives you a very sturdy result. In addition for small parts, dissolved ABS in acetone can be used as glue.

I managed to repair a broken fairing of my sons diversion 600. Actually it would have been a lot easier to buy a used fairing, but it was a useful exercise ;)

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#42 fixitsan

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 07:07 pm

FWIW

The fairing is really ABS. Except the top inner fairing of a TDM900, which is AES (whatever that may be).

In my experience ABS-welding gives you a very sturdy result. In addition for small parts, dissolved ABS in acetone can be used as glue.

I managed to repair a broken fairing of my sons diversion 600. Actually it would have been a lot easier to buy a used fairing, but it was a useful exercise ;)

attachicon.gif P1010159a.jpgattachicon.gif P1010699a.jpgattachicon.gif P1010700a.jpg

 

 

 

 

That's really helpful...something else I'll have a go with.

 

Unfortunately the Yorkshire gene forbids me from buying a replacement....ho hum...but I wanted to get more involved with and learn more about  3D printing anyway and this has been ideal for that :)


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#43 PeterM91

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 10:18 pm

3D printing looks like a nice challenge :good:

Perhaps you could consider the use of ABS filament instead of PLA. Just for the bonding of the 3D prints on the fairing with ABS-acetone glue.

I've dissolved al few rods of ABS in a small amount of acetone, let it stay over night and the next day you have a more or less thick black glue.

That works like a charm.

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#44 fixitsan

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 08:26 am

3D printing looks like a nice challenge :good:

Perhaps you could consider the use of ABS filament instead of PLA. Just for the bonding of the 3D prints on the fairing with ABS-acetone glue.

I've dissolved al few rods of ABS in a small amount of acetone, let it stay over night and the next day you have a more or less thick black glue.

That works like a charm.

Headlight mounting point:
attachicon.gif P1010306a.JPG

 

 

I bought a small reel of ABS filament to try. I got terrible results which were due to the change in material properties. It means going through a whole setup procedure, playing with temperatures, print speed and feed rates.  Once I get the time I intended going back to get it working again.  Once I had a good setup going I stuck with it and fired ahead.

 

 

This is the downside of 3D printing (below)  the deformed prints, cancelled prints, model flaws and software malfunctions, as well as the usual print-modify-reprint iterative process.   The last half dozen prints worked perfectly each time, but the downside of these cheaper printers is the fact that so many of the adjustments have a major impact on print quality and integrity, that you need to expect to have problems which you fix with a lot of trial and error.

 

Of course, now everything is set up I can just switch on and print away, but even if i were to move the printer from one tabletop to another I expect there could be some changes requiring attention again.  Cost vs convenience.

 

 

[/url]Scraps by Chris Barron, on Flickr">http://45771232545_bb7194cb34_b.jpgScraps by Chris Barron, on Flickr


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#45 LewisBlackburn

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 11:17 am

This is a great application for 3D Printing

I got one last year and have just been messing around with bits so far. Luckily I don't have any cracked panels other than a small crack in the inner cockpit fairing, which is so small I think I'll just leave it alone. But its good to know this option is there. 

 

When i got the printer, I was put off using sketchup for models as I read they didn't export well to STL files, but yours seem great.

and that's bloody handy as I've been using sketchup for nearly 10 years and I'm pretty handy with it now. I don't think I could be arsed learning a new 3d modelling software now! 

 

 

Anyway, Top work !



#46 fixitsan

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:31 pm

This is a great application for 3D Printing

I got one last year and have just been messing around with bits so far. Luckily I don't have any cracked panels other than a small crack in the inner cockpit fairing, which is so small I think I'll just leave it alone. But its good to know this option is there. 

 

When i got the printer, I was put off using sketchup for models as I read they didn't export well to STL files, but yours seem great.

and that's bloody handy as I've been using sketchup for nearly 10 years and I'm pretty handy with it now. I don't think I could be arsed learning a new 3d modelling software now! 

 

 

Anyway, Top work !

 

 

Thanks. Yes I have hit snags with Sketchup derived  STL files. It seems like you can sit down and design a complex model and it will export well, but when you begin editing a model, by adding cut lines, by reprofiling a surface, or by stretching a face  to make it larger, this newly edited file can become corrupt, causing a model print to stop half way through as if it had completed correctly. The  solution is to either find all of the original lines and surface which still exists within the model (in framework view) and delete them. or start building a newer version of the model. It helps to have an idea in mind before beginning

 

Some of the failed parts in the picture failed for that very reason. I didn't want to renew my Autodesk subscription for £'s for this little application so decided it was better to be cunning with Sketchup and work within it's limitations. I've had training with Autocaed and Autodesk inventor (Inventor is superb), and really found Sketchup quite limiting. Had I of never seen another more complex cad program I would probably find Sketchup easy and fun to use. Horses for courses.


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#47 LewisBlackburn

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:38 pm

 

 

Thanks. Yes I have hit snags with Sketchup derived  STL files. It seems like you can sit down and design a complex model and it will export well, but when you begin editing a model, by adding cut lines, by reprofiling a surface, or by stretching a face  to make it larger, this newly edited file can become corrupt, causing a model print to stop half way through as if it had completed correctly. The  solution is to either find all of the original lines and surface which still exists within the model (in framework view) and delete them. or start building a newer version of the model. It helps to have an idea in mind before beginning

 

Some of the failed parts in the picture failed for that very reason. I didn't want to renew my Autodesk subscription for £'s for this little application so decided it was better to be cunning with Sketchup and work within it's limitations. I've had training with Autocaed and Autodesk inventor (Inventor is superb), and really found Sketchup quite limiting. Had I of never seen another more complex cad program I would probably find Sketchup easy and fun to use. Horses for courses.

 

 

Ah, So, pretty much ok for flat surfaced boxes then, and potentially awkward for anything complex. Should be ok for basic stuff I need to do then. 

 

I've done a tiny bit of 2D stuff with older versions of autocad at home but that's all. It seems like lots of people who post models on thingiverse seem to build them in Blender. Again, no idea with that but looks like I might have to start with a few YouTube tutorials. 



#48 fixitsan

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 06:15 pm

 
 
Ah, So, pretty much ok for flat surfaced boxes then, and potentially awkward for anything complex. Should be ok for basic stuff I need to do then. 
 
I've done a tiny bit of 2D stuff with older versions of autocad at home but that's all. It seems like lots of people who post models on thingiverse seem to build them in Blender. Again, no idea with that but looks like I might have to start with a few YouTube tutorials. 



Cheers. I'll download it and have a play one dark winter night https://www.blender.org/

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#49 fixitsan

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:15 am

Blender looks a lot like Maya, especially good for 3D animations and CGI, which I think is going to have a steeper learning curve than a simpler CAD-only product

 

I just tried downloading FreeCAD (it's more like what I'm used to) , but the connection kept resetting, so for £2.99 on ebay I am getting a ready made FreeCad installation DVD.

 

 

 

 

Just for fun, if anyone is interested in the state of the art CGI software and what it can produce, try taking this test...are the images real or are the fake ? (scroll down to 'start' if it doesn't show on your screen)

https://area.autodesk.com/fakeorfoto/


Edited by fixitsan, 11 January 2019 - 09:20 am.

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#50 AzzA

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 11:42 am

G'day All,

There's several free CAD packages available that produce great SLI outputs.

Coming from SolidWorks I prefer the interface of RS's DesignSpark; it's quite basic yet is easy to use for that reason. It's available from the RS website for free, no registration required. Google "RS Components" for your national site.

Here's a link with a few more free, and some paid, options:
https://m.all3dp.com...e-cad-software/

If you're trying to print ABS with a Wanhao Di3 printer (or derivative), you'll be making work for yourself; they're not good at it.

Honestly, not many printers are good at ABS. Pure ABS is a great injection moulding plastic but for all the reasons it's good for that make it suck to print with.

All the first generation 3D printers worked with ABS, or tried to, only because ABS was the only filament available. ABS filament was on the market for plastic welding. Once 3D printers had enough market force, other filament types were introduced. Like nylon, ABS/PC, PLA, HIPS, and the list goes on.

You could probably print ABS/PC with a Di3, or any Prusa type printer, if you slowed it down and used a perf-board bed or something similar. Parts won't be a hard as PLA, or as strong, but they might be "glue compatible" to the ABS fairing.

BTW
If you've fitted a Z-brace to your Di3, you've probably fitted my design or one of the derivatives/mods.
If you haven't, I strongly suggest you do fit a Z brace; well worth the time and effort and is rewarded by better, faster prints.
https://www.thingive...om/thing:921948

Cheers,
AzzA

Edited by AzzA, 12 January 2019 - 12:03 pm.

gallery_10460_302_12664.png


#51 AzzA

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 12:01 pm

Once you've got a well setup printer, cable of really good prints with PLA and fitted with a hot-end capable of around 240C sustained temperatures, then PETG would be worth trying.

PETG is tough! Harder than ABS yet more flexible than PLA and prints with very good dimensional stability.

PETG would possibly make great motorcycle fittings, without stepping up to nylon/carbon-fibre printing (which is expensive and just a bit of a PITA to design and print with). PETG also comes in a variety of colours.

gallery_10460_302_12664.png


#52 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 03:20 pm

Might be more appropriate moving this topic to Hyde Park eh ?


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#53 fixitsan

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 03:53 pm

G'day All,

There's several free CAD packages available that produce great SLI outputs.

Coming from SolidWorks I prefer the interface of RS's DesignSpark; it's quite basic yet is easy to use for that reason. It's available from the RS website for free, no registration required. Google "RS Components" for your national site.

Here's a link with a few more free, and some paid, options:
https://m.all3dp.com...e-cad-software/

If you're trying to print ABS with a Wanhao Di3 printer (or derivative), you'll be making work for yourself; they're not good at it.

Honestly, not many printers are good at ABS. Pure ABS is a great injection moulding plastic but for all the reasons it's good for that make it suck to print with.

All the first generation 3D printers worked with ABS, or tried to, only because ABS was the only filament available. ABS filament was on the market for plastic welding. Once 3D printers had enough market force, other filament types were introduced. Like nylon, ABS/PC, PLA, HIPS, and the list goes on.

You could probably print ABS/PC with a Di3, or any Prusa type printer, if you slowed it down and used a perf-board bed or something similar. Parts won't be a hard as PLA, or as strong, but they might be "glue compatible" to the ABS fairing.

BTW
If you've fitted a Z-brace to your Di3, you've probably fitted my design or one of the derivatives/mods.
If you haven't, I strongly suggest you do fit a Z brace; well worth the time and effort and is rewarded by better, faster prints.
https://www.thingive...om/thing:921948

Cheers,
AzzA

Thanks for the tips

I've figured a lot out from experience, I'm a registered 3d Systems printer engineer , servicing and repairing their 2500 and 3500 resin dual component machines. Playing in a different price point here !

My secondhand i3 came with z- brace fitted.

When I'm laying out parts I'm taking print direction into consideration, to make parts stronger along loaded lengths

I've got it to a point where I get print without failure EA Ch time with PLA ABS isn't a priority for me but I might give PETG a go sometime

If could extrude my own filament from collected waste PET. I would be happy

Edited by fixitsan, 12 January 2019 - 04:01 pm.

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#54 AzzA

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 11:56 pm

I built a Filastuder kit for work, to feed a one meter cubed printer, but it's not up and running yet. Getting the Filastruder to the robust point takes some work.

PET & PETG might have some gluing issues. PET containers are great for mixing and bounding resins; they don't stick to it.

I've got a roll of PETG but have yet to unwrap it, for a disability aid project, and my searching has suggested I'd need a two component gap filling polyurethane (PUR) adhesive if sticking parts together. Mechanical fasteners seem the better choice. Those adhesives are expensive and not easy to get in Bumphuknowear. The other options contain dichloromethane, or other chlorinated hydrocarbons, which are banned in the EU and elsewhere... but freely available in the US where they apparently have a population problem... coz they're plenty nasty (the US gumbyment, and chlorinated hydrocarbons).

Have you thought about the printed repair part being a mould for pouring an ABS slurry into? (It does mean working with acetone though. ABS is toxic stuff to work with no matter how you approach it, heat or solvent.) The slurry could form the anchor or/and part of the repair.

I'm yet to find a PUR glue that also bonds well to ABS and other printable plastics. ABS isn't happy to become a composite (outside of the moulding process) without substantial risk.

gallery_10460_302_12664.png


#55 fixitsan

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 01:30 am

I had just read about gluing issues and PET just now,. I have access to so nasty but useful solvents, but I still think the one which will do best is the builders high grip stuff. And the rough texture of the printed parts. Will help it to grip. I'll have a go next week

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#56 ManonEdge

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 02:54 pm

If your looking for an adhesive to fix your parts try a plastex kit ( pics below).
I used it to repair loads of my broken & missing fairing bits when I got the bike.

The kit is featured on Calmbikers YouTube channel where he re furbs a TDM.

It will stick to the faring parts as you can see in my pics, not sure about the printed parts but I can get hold of a printed bit of mate & could try it.

The kits are available direct from the supplier, Ill find a link if anyone interested.

They are bloody great for these type of repairs. Not trying to pinch fixitsan thunder here & hope I dont offend, just offering up some info.

Youll see in my pics I rebuilt the very part under discussion here, just made a card mould from a business card, drill & tapped the hole for the bolt.
Also re cast the other missing bits as shown, little sanding & shaping & it worked a treat. When I 1st got the bike the previous owner had super glued all the panels together and I could remove them at all, had to very carefully separate them with a dremmel & cutting disc.

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#57 Muppdog

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 03:58 pm

+1 for Plastex.

#58 ManonEdge

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 04:53 pm

Link for plastex kit, various colours available, site does loads of other useful kit too.

The mould bar that comes with it does work quite well & can be reshaped, be sure to mask any area around your repair as the liquid (basically thin super glue) will seep around the mould.

http://www.repairing...lic-repair-kit/

It’s not cheap stuff but it’s bloody good.

Tip’s I found.
Fill the little bottle, it works better. I thought I’d try a tester and just use a little bit & it didn’t work well.
Same with the powder, fill the little cup, it makes better spheres & easier to pick them up.
Go into Mc’donalds for more supplies of the little cup things.
It bloody stinks, make sure your well ventilated

#59 fixitsan

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 09:11 pm

Plastex looks a good alternative to me.....a larger number of options is how we keep these older bikes going :)


I was curious about how strong a replacement could be printed, and for me it's worked well.


Another alternative is pure HDPE which is a common plastics, easily identifiable by it's recycling symbol... http://naturalsociet...ottles-meaning/ .

It is quite a pure thermoplastic -. It melts well in a domestic oven and can be shaped or moulded.
https://youtu.be/kUR6_bQLU-E

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#60 fixitsan

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 05:26 pm

I've pressed the button on a cheap plastic hot stapling kit today. I have some panels on the KTM, as well as the ones ont he TDM which will benefit from this type opf repair, so I'll let you knows how it goes when I get round to it

 


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