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#41 Robodene

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 08:46 pm

If I can lift the tank, you certainly can.... I even did the airbox mod.
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#42 fixitsan

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 05:02 pm

Fuel tank breather clogging would affect high speed running, wouldn't it? Thanks though!

 

 

Yes probably but the fuel pump will work extra hard at high revs and still be able to cope, at lower revs it would probably be fine too, but it made me think that perhaps the fuel pressure regulator could be leaking ? That would cause a  leaner than usual conditon across the rev range but it might not be very noticeable, although at idle when the micture is leaned out a bit anyway it might have more of an effect.

 

Something to try would be to adjust the CO settings via the dash, CO1 and CO2 are the idle/low speed mixture settings for respective cylinders, try adding 50 to each value (write the original values down first) and see how it runs then. If it makes no difference at all then fueling is probably working as it should.

 

JBX has covered the CO settings here -> https://www.tdm-yama...ex.php?page=MCO


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#43 Atesz792

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 10:53 am

UPDATE
Well guys, today appeared to be wrenching day.
Took fairing off, and replaced both HT leads.
In the meantime also did airbox mod #2 as per JBX.
Tested starting ability after every change I made.
Then onto some stationary testing (stationary because today is the coldest day in weeks aaaand it's raining).
Started up fine, left alone holds a steady idle. Actually had to re-adjust as it idled @1400 instead of the 1300 I set before.
Left it running for 15 minutes (remember last time I didn't wait enough, thought it was okay then learned while riding that it wasn't).
Did not stall at idle, then I tried holding a steady ~3000 RPM (where it usually stalls after a while), after a few seconds doing that the cooling fan came on, still did not stall.
After another couple seconds (the whole procedure with the revving took no more than half a minute I guess), I saw steam coming from around the coolant reservoir, and coolant flowing out of one of the overflow tubes under the bike!
Scared of it potentially being gas, turned the engine off in an instant, only then did I realize what it actually was.
So I got a couple questions again....
Is this normal for a TDM? If yes, what happens in traffic when weather's 20°C warmer? Did I damage anything? How do I check I still have enough coolant? Also radiator was warm to the touch within a minute of the engine running, should the thermostat allow that to happen?
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#44 Favs

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 11:14 am

UPDATE
Well guys, today appeared to be wrenching day.
Took fairing off, and replaced both HT leads.
In the meantime also did airbox mod #2 as per JBX.
Tested starting ability after every change I made.
Then onto some stationary testing (stationary because today is the coldest day in weeks aaaand it's raining).
Started up fine, left alone holds a steady idle. Actually had to re-adjust as it idled @1400 instead of the 1300 I set before.
Left it running for 15 minutes (remember last time I didn't wait enough, thought it was okay then learned while riding that it wasn't).
Did not stall at idle, then I tried holding a steady ~3000 RPM (where it usually stalls after a while), after a few seconds doing that the cooling fan came on, still did not stall.
After another couple seconds (the whole procedure with the revving took no more than half a minute I guess), I saw steam coming from around the coolant reservoir, and coolant flowing out of one of the overflow tubes under the bike!
Scared of it potentially being gas, turned the engine off in an instant, only then did I realize what it actually was.
So I got a couple questions again....
Is this normal for a TDM? If yes, what happens in traffic when weather's 20°C warmer? Did I damage anything? How do I check I still have enough coolant? Also radiator was warm to the touch within a minute of the engine running, should the thermostat allow that to happen?

Had the two small pipes off the radiator, those near the radiator filler, If you have, they are probably on the wrong radiator stubs. Fatter one on the bottom :good:


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#45 Atesz792

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 11:42 am

Had the two small pipes off the radiator, those near the radiator filler, If you have, they are probably on the wrong radiator stubs. Fatter one on the bottom :good:

No, but thanks for the suggestion, fatter one is on the bottom stub.
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#46 TDM4ever

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 12:47 pm

Is this normal for a TDM? If yes, what happens in traffic when weather's 20°C warmer? Did I damage anything? How do I check I still have enough coolant? Also radiator was warm to the touch within a minute of the engine running, should the thermostat allow that to happen?

 

No, not normal at all. I have been in traffic jams in 35°C idling for nearly 30 minutes, without any issues. The fan keeps the temperature below the red/danger area.



#47 Atesz792

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 01:02 pm

 
No, not normal at all. I have been in traffic jams in 35°C idling for nearly 30 minutes, without any issues. The fan keeps the temperature below the red/danger area.

What's interesting is that it never reached the red area. Meanwhile, I lifted the tank to add some distilled water. I know it's not the best but a coolant flush/change is due anyway, but troubleshooting comes first.
The cap of the coolant reservoir appears to have been removed by the pressure (or it wasn't installed correctly in the first place). Filled it then put the cap back on it, didn't require too much effort, I believe not much force is needed to remove it.
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#48 chrisr

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 01:16 pm

May not be relevant to what happened here but when you do renew the coolant there may be some loss from the overflow pipes until it finds its level, especially when you stop after a run. As long as the coolant is up to the cap in the radiator when cold then there’s nothing to worry about.

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#49 TKH

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 02:46 pm

Never had this problem on my 9'er. I take it you don't mean the cap on the main radiator. Mine usually has to be standing a bit or in very slow traffic a while in this kind of temp before the fan kicks in. And then it's close to the red line. There is one issue, two small pipes on the right hand side (sitting on the bike) can be installed the wrong way round and that causes problems. I'll see if I can dig out a piccie

 

 

They both fit but the wider outside diameter goes at the bottom. This is what I think Favs was mentioning.

 

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Edited by TKH, 12 April 2019 - 03:11 pm.


#50 JMC

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 03:34 pm

UPDATE
After another couple seconds (the whole procedure with the revving took no more than half a minute I guess), I saw steam coming from around the coolant reservoir, and coolant flowing out of one of the overflow tubes under the bike!
 

 

Replace the radiator cap with a known working one and see if it still happens, I've an old off road bike in the shed with the same symptoms and that was the problem, or maybe the head gasket is on the way out  :huh:



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#51 Atesz792

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 06:47 pm

Thanks for the suggestions.
To answer some of the questions, radiator cap was not involved, coolant reservoir under tank was steaming, and nearly empty after lunch (cooling off). That is what I filled with distilled water later as level was under the LOW mark.
The 2 small pipes mentioned are installed as seen in pic.
Rad cap replacement sounds rational, but is it needed given that cap was not the one involved?
Also, could coolant being REALLY old cause this? I've been postponing service since buying, first because I wanted to enjoy it for a bit, then the troubleshooting... also now's the time of year when you leave the bike in the shop and they don't even touch it for like 2 weeks, everyone takes in theirs now... (as to why I don't do it myself, valves are due and I know I'm not doing that).

Edited by Atesz792, 12 April 2019 - 08:10 pm.

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#52 chrisr

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 08:48 pm

The reservoir may be under the low mark when the bike is hot but will fill up as it cools, thats why its a reservoir......if you filled it before it was cool that may explain why it came out of the overflow later? I would make sure the radiator and reservoir were topped up when cool,run it until hot then leave it to cool and see where the levels are then.

Edited by chrisr, 12 April 2019 - 08:53 pm.

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#53 Atesz792

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 06:24 am

I never touched the reservoir until after it lost some coolant as described. Waited about 2 hours to allow it to cool. Have not started the bike since topping off coolant.
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#54 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 08:55 am

I always check coolant level at the radiator and top it up there first. Then you can be sure there aren't any airlocks in the system.  If you had got an airlock where the thermostat was then it could have overheated.  I top up, run engine for a few seconds then leave to settle for a few mins then check level at radiator again.


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#55 Atesz792

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 09:03 am

Thanks, will do! Should I fill the rad all the way to the top?
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#56 dablik

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 09:10 am

Yes then run on side stand a little while.


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#57 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 09:11 am

Yes. :)  I fill mine whilst the bike is on the sidestand.  I also give the old hose a squeeze to make sure it's full of fluid. Fnarfnar !


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#58 TKH

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 01:00 pm

If someone has mentioned it, sorry. Is the problem down to the thermostat? Reading what was going on seemed to hint to there maybe a blockage - stat not opening, airlock, blocked waterway, etc.



#59 fixitsan

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 01:52 pm

If someone has mentioned it, sorry. Is the problem down to the thermostat? Reading what was going on seemed to hint to there maybe a blockage - stat not opening, airlock, blocked waterway, etc.

 

 

It could be. There is a small hole in the thermostat plate which allows a certain amount of bypass flow and gasses to escape, so that the pump can put hot liquid in contact with waxstat element of the thermostat,. It shouldn't be possible for an airlock to remain there fore very long because of that bypass hole.

 

Testing the thermostat is just a case of dropping it into a pan of simmering water and seeing if  it opens. In an emergency it is ok to run without a thermostat (Stranded in a remote location and need to get home, for example), because it allows full coolant flow, however the warmup time is much longer usually.


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#60 Atesz792

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 06:52 pm

Today I filled the radiator (took quite a bit) then went for a spin.
Everything went well for about 10 kilometres, then the usual bogging down started. Didn't stall with clutch pulled in for another 10 k or so. But then it started doing that, too, and after that moment every time I pulled the clutch lever for more than a second, it stalled.
So it looks like it really is getting worse with the engine getting nice&hot. Couldn't reproduce this problem earlier on the side stand (not even when it overheated). Needs a good bit of real riding to present itself.
Thing I learned today is the TPS is still the original!
Could it possibly cause my problem? I know I will have to get it replaced, but will doing so help me with my woes? What's strange for me is the need for prolonged riding. Wouldn't a faulty TPS act up instantly?
Also the problem was/is getting worse rapidly, when I bought the bike ~1k miles ago it rarely annoyed me, then one day it started stalling, too. Later only started after a full day of riding (quite hard sometimes) and didn't really go away ever since.
My mech is thinking spark plugs/coils.
Strange...
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