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Downshifting Issue In The Cold


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#21 Tor

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Posted 14 January 2022 - 01:02 pm

I would go round all the bolts in and around the gearchange mechanism including those under the front sprocket cover and loosen them. Then apply heavy oil to any bearings. Finally go round the bolts several times in sequence tightening bit by bit to the correct torques. Follow the shop manual for sequence if necessary.

While in there take a good look at the mechanism for wear or misalgnment.

That's a top tip. I'm going to book it in for timing chain and adjuster, fluids, tune-up/dyno etc. and while at it I could add that for not that much extra. 



#22 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 14 January 2022 - 05:19 pm

Might be worth adjusting the gear lever to tighten it up a tad.


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#23 Tor

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Posted 14 January 2022 - 10:23 pm

Got the quote today. Its a £ grand for
Valve check
Can chain replacement
Tensioner replacement
Oil, filter flush and change
Coolant ditto
Brake fluids ditto
Throttle body sync and Co tuning on a dyno
Parts excluding fluids supplied by me.
7.5 hours, Green fees and materials.
Im being told its good for here. If I can just stop shaking.

#24 curlylegend

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Posted 14 January 2022 - 11:20 pm

Got the quote today. Its a £ grand for
Valve check
Can chain replacement
Tensioner replacement
Oil, filter flush and change
Coolant ditto
Brake fluids ditto
Throttle body sync and Co tuning on a dyno
Parts excluding fluids supplied by me.
7.5 hours, Green fees and materials.
Im being told its good for here. If I can just stop shaking.

 

Wow !!



#25 dapleb

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 08:12 am

Also beware of the dealer "valve check" ....as this has most definitely involved 7seconds not 7.5hours for some.

The test goes like this. Start boike, rev boike, don't hear no rattle, stop boike.

Since you are also having the chain and tensioner done you are mayhaps less likely to encounter this labour saving process but it is probably still worth asking for evidence of valve check...and in your case mayhaps some form of gold leaf diamond encrusted certificate. (✷‿✷)
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#26 Favs

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 09:35 am

+photo / video


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#27 dablik

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 10:20 am

Jesus, i just could'nt/would'nt pay that, so around £200+ for cct and cam chain and £1000 on top, blimey Tor you seem capable enough to handle the work yourself matey, thas a lot of wonga..

 

Anyhow time restraints/work etc may not leave another option..


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#28 leehenty

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 12:47 pm

Its a pity he dont live over here in UK, we could help him out with a quick fettle and a shim job
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#29 fixitsan

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 08:58 pm

Got the quote today. Its a £ grand for
Valve check
Can chain replacement
Tensioner replacement
Oil, filter flush and change
Coolant ditto
Brake fluids ditto
Throttle body sync and Co tuning on a dyno
Parts excluding fluids supplied by me.
7.5 hours, Green fees and materials.
Im being told its good for here. If I can just stop shaking.

 

Ask them how much less it will be if they eliminate this curiosity..... "Co tuning on a dyno"

 

CO tuning affects only low load/small throttle opening situations and is unlikely to show any change on any dyno run. (IMHO)

 

It's done 34km miles so just run in so I would question cam chain replacement at that distance, hopefully someone else can confirm, but I'm basing that on changing several cam chains, my last 900 cam chain was at 100,000 miles, it had stretched due to wear but was perfectly serviceable, so again, I would question a cam chain replacement unless there is a technical reason to do it.

 

Likewise the tensioner, if there's no problem and it has the right type then fine, but if it's the wrong one then just a CCT change, not a cam chain too would suffice. (time wise a CCT can be very quick, a cam chain replacement is a lot more involved)

 

Valve clearance check worth doing,

 

New work list....

Tensioner

Valve check

Fluids and filters

*Add in - strip and grease rear shock linkage*


Edited by fixitsan, 15 January 2022 - 09:13 pm.

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#30 fixitsan

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 09:15 pm

Check and lubricate gear lever pivot

+1 , the shaft extends a long way through the case, a good catch point


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#31 Snowbird

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 11:46 pm

If the lever is returning back ok it's probably not the gearshaft fouled, nether the less it's an easy check.

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#32 wicklamulla

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Posted 16 January 2022 - 10:14 am

Got the quote today. Its a £ grand for
Valve check
Can chain replacement
Tensioner replacement
Oil, filter flush and change
Coolant ditto
Brake fluids ditto
Throttle body sync and Co tuning on a dyno
Parts excluding fluids supplied by me.
7.5 hours, Green fees and materials.
Im being told its good for here. If I can just stop shaking.

 

 

i'll be surprised if they can do it all in 1 day. I'd rather pay Lee or someone else on here to do it for me if i was struggling with 'the daunting task' as i'm a firm believer in taking my time doing technical stuff like that plus it's worth checking the cam cover and that steel coolant pipe and rubber O ring whilst in there as it's bound to leak once disturbed. 


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#33 dandywarhol

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Posted 16 January 2022 - 11:49 am

Around £825 in reality after Richfecker Sunak gets his 20%  :pimp:


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#34 chrisr

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Posted 16 January 2022 - 12:16 pm

Many years ago I paid a main dealer to do the 24,000 mile valve check on my 2004 TDM along with a full service. They did the service but “forgot” the valve check. Took it back and they charged me (they said) as if they were doing it as part of the service. Cost me around £600+ all in. When I had the shims checked a few years later by Mr Henty he told me the engine had not been apart from new. They stole my money. Beware main dealers, mine has never been to one since.

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#35 Tor

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Posted 16 January 2022 - 12:33 pm

Thanks guys.

 

Anyhow time restraints/work etc may not leave another option..

That. Thanks for the vote of confidence  :)

 

Ask them how much less it will be if they eliminate this curiosity..... "Co tuning on a dyno"

CO tuning affects only low load/small throttle opening situations and is unlikely to show any change on any dyno run. (IMHO)

 

Likewise the tensioner, if there's no problem and it has the right type then fine, but if it's the wrong one then just a CCT change, not a cam chain too would suffice. (time wise a CCT can be very quick, a cam chain replacement is a lot more involved)

 

Valve clearance check worth doing,

 

New work list....

Tensioner

Valve check

Fluids and filters

*Add in - strip and grease rear shock linkage*

The tensioner is the old type so needs replacing. As far as the dyno, it’d be great to know if the CO adjustments are indeed as you say and don’t affect the full throttle and rpm range. He won’t be able to alter the mapping but should be able to use the dyno as a rolling road to take care of the slight hunting, popping and snatchiness I still have even with the air flap wire unplugged, new air filter and plugs fitted. I’m not really looking for a power gain.

 

it's worth checking the cam cover and that steel coolant pipe and rubber O ring whilst in there as it's bound to leak once disturbed. 

Noted! Thanks.

 

Hourly labour rates here are harsh by any standards. The garage is a general one, known and experienced by myself as a good one and I trust the chap who runs it. He’s a U.K. expat and worked on TDMs in the past. The cam chain I picked up at Megazip for silly money while ordering the tensioner, and replacing it is a preventative since we’re already changing the oil and having the cam cover etc. off. 



#36 fixitsan

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Posted 16 January 2022 - 05:06 pm

Thanks guys.

 

That. Thanks for the vote of confidence  :)

 

The tensioner is the old type so needs replacing. As far as the dyno, it’d be great to know if the CO adjustments are indeed as you say and don’t affect the full throttle and rpm range. He won’t be able to alter the mapping but should be able to use the dyno as a rolling road to take care of the slight hunting, popping and snatchiness I still have even with the air flap wire unplugged, new air filter and plugs fitted. I’m not really looking for a power gain.

 

 

The CO setting is type of fine tune of the throttle bodies, to account for very slight differences in manufacturing tolerances of the moving components and the injector nozzle diameter.A sort of 'trim' value in effect. You can adjust it yourself and change the settings very easily when you stop to review the effect of any change.

If you make a note of the starting values you can always return them back to that if you don't find better settings
 

General jerkiness comes with the bike, partly due to chain slack, but also it seems to have an aggressive fuel cut algorithm which comes into play when you decelerate. It tends to cut all fuel to the cylinders very readily which causes a strong braking effect, and it switches rapidly between cutting and fueling without much of an overlap.


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#37 Tor

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Posted 16 January 2022 - 06:33 pm

Thanks. The snatchy behaviour from the chain and when coming on the throttle after an overrun is acceptable but I get some hunting at steady, 30-40 mph speeds and light throttle. Im assuming a CO adjustment can help there. So Ill have a chat to Jimmy about what I am actually paying for with the dyno time.

Edited by Tor, 16 January 2022 - 06:34 pm.


#38 fixitsan

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Posted 16 January 2022 - 07:09 pm

Thanks. The snatchy behaviour from the chain and when coming on the throttle after an overrun is acceptable but I get some hunting at steady, 30-40 mph speeds and light throttle. Im assuming a CO adjustment can help there. So Ill have a chat to Jimmy about what I am actually paying for with the dyno time.

 

It depends which gear you're in too. Some owners reckon the bike will pull cleanly from 2500rpm and others say it chugs at that speed. It could mean there are some differences in the ECU programs over the range of years of the bike


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#39 Tor

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Posted 16 January 2022 - 07:17 pm

Personally, I’d say it chugs or vibes in high gears and/or uphills, not lower gears and flats or slight declines.



#40 TKH

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Posted 16 January 2022 - 10:08 pm

I find my 900 pretty poor  when it's cold, and shudders, spits, farts, etc until it's warm then it's as smooth as anything from 2500 revs except in 5th and 6th up a hill. 3000 revs and it's fine anywhere. I'm getting low down juddering/snatching again but I I've got a couple of jobs that need doing to mostly fix it, probably the cold stuff as well. 

 

If you have any self confidence in tackling mechanical jobs, have a go yourself. It'll probably take you 2/3 times as long but save you a grand or so.




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