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#1 ChrisG

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 05:08 pm

Just checked my front sprocket nut, and it's loose, despite the folded but of the washer still being tight against it ranting.gif

Worse it'll the nut will turn but won't unscrew sad.gif

Guess I'm gonna have to cut it off (cut the last one off with a dremmel and a chisel), neaten up the thread, and hope it's not so badly damaged that a new one will hold. Anyone tried threadlock on them?
1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now :(
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.

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#2 TonyDevil

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 05:12 pm

QUOTE
chris,
its most likely popped over a couple of thread
chances are the thread on the nut is knackered, not the thread on the shaft
carrying 2 spares doesnt seem so silly now wink.gif

i've got some of permenent locktite for when you get the nut off

gimme a shout if you want some help

"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips

current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, TDM900=commuter, Z750 hardtail=project
gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125

If you don't like my answers you should cease asking stupid questions!

#3 ChrisG

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 05:44 pm

This is getting confusing, I seem to be having a conversation with 1 person across three threads on 2 forums blink.gif

Cheers for the offer, hopefully I'll be ok, I've had practice. When the original one died it was so loose you could spin it by hand, this one needs a spanner so hopefully isn't as bad. I had to wedge the original one in place with a screwdriver then cut through most of it with one of those little cutting disks on a dremmel, then chissel the thing off, but once I'd run that die up the thread the new nut seemed to hold ok.

Is yours currently held on with permenant loctite then?

I'm gonna need to nip in to Halfords as I seem to have cunningly not put my 3/8" to 1/2" adaptor with either my 3/8" drive torque wrench and socket set or the 1/2" drive socket that I need to do the job ranting.gif so I'll pick up some locktite at the same time. I'll give Bykebitz a bell in the morning and order a couple of nuts.

Edited by ChrisG, 10 June 2007 - 05:47 pm.

1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now :(
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.

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#4 TonyDevil

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 07:34 pm

rotflmmfao.gif jester2.gif blush.gif sorry for the confusion

yes to locktite, mine should be gettin welded this week
the locktite i have is the industrial stuff for 'permenant' use
i'll bring it with me on friday if thats any help
"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips

current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, TDM900=commuter, Z750 hardtail=project
gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125

If you don't like my answers you should cease asking stupid questions!

#5 jht

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 07:59 pm

thats a bugger!!

Don't bother with halfords

go to AHC on A30 in camberley for locktite (there is a branch in Farnham too I think http://www.ahc-camberley.co.uk/ )
be interested to see if they stock/ can get the nut, and what cost.
Done: Homo sap navigation/ twisty thing on bars to make it go vroom/ grabby thing to make it stop (in front of twisty thing)/ 'leccy things front and rear to make it glow at night/ Sucky + drippy oiler thing to keep chains moist (!!) / Laser Pro Stock Race pipes / bleeding ear drums (see previous mod)
To do: Educate homo sap nav system to operate twisty + grabby things/ get ear plugs

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#6 robelst

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 08:00 pm

Despite the impressive size of the nut it should "only" be torqued up to a rather modest 70 Nm. When I loosened the one my bike I almost had to extend the wrench to make it come off. blink.gif Given the average cave-man subtlety many dealer-mechanics work with I wouldn't be suprised if the cause is to be ound in that area. I used blue (non-permanent) Loctite when fitting it. The new sprocket I fitted was a JT one but seemed to fit very well on the shaft.
Nevertheless, after all these scary stories here I may have a look again before the chain needs replacing rolleyes.gif
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#7 TonyDevil

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 08:20 pm

i think the Yammie sprocket might be slightly thicker unsure.gif
which i had one of those micrometer thingys, i'd have been able to measure it rolleyes.gif
"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips

current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, TDM900=commuter, Z750 hardtail=project
gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125

If you don't like my answers you should cease asking stupid questions!

#8 ChrisG

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 05:49 am

QUOTE(Toneski @ Sun 10th Jun 2007, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
rotflmmfao.gif jester2.gif blush.gif sorry for the confusion

yes to locktite, mine should be gettin welded this week
the locktite i have is the industrial stuff for 'permenant' use
i'll bring it with me on friday if thats any help


Well to be fair I started it rolleyes.gif rotflmmfao.gif

If you don't mind be borrowing it for the weekend then yes please, although it's easy enough for me to pick some up as the rate you go thoguh sprocket nuts you're likely to want ti.



QUOTE(jht @ Sun 10th Jun 2007, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
thats a bugger!!

Don't bother with halfords

go to AHC on A30 in camberley for locktite (there is a branch in Farnham too I think http://www.ahc-camberley.co.uk/ )
be interested to see if they stock/ can get the nut, and what cost.


Only planning on Halfords for the 3/8" to 1/2" adaptor and possibly the locktite, as I pass on on my way home form work. I'll order the nut through Bykebitz and pick it up on Saturday. The nut's still on there so it's safe enough to ride up to yours on Friday, and then spend saturday working on the sprocket hopefully in time for a bike club meet on Sunday.
1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now :(
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.

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#9 Galilee

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 07:33 am

QUOTE(ChrisG @ Sun 10th Jun 2007, 06:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just checked my front sprocket nut, and it's loose, despite the folded but of the washer still being tight against it ranting.gif

Worse it'll the nut will turn but won't unscrew sad.gif

Guess I'm gonna have to cut it off (cut the last one off with a dremmel and a chisel), neaten up the thread, and hope it's not so badly damaged that a new one will hold. Anyone tried threadlock on them?


This forum seems full of loose nuts. rotflmmfao.gif
Most of them are probably unscrewed too. rotflmmfao.gif
Too Freud to rock'n'roll, too Jung to die.

#10 TonyDevil

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 10:46 am

QUOTE(ChrisG @ Mon 11th Jun 2007, 06:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well to be fair I started it rolleyes.gif rotflmmfao.gif

If you don't mind be borrowing it for the weekend then yes please, although it's easy enough for me to pick some up as the rate you go thoguh sprocket nuts you're likely to want ti.
Only planning on Halfords for the 3/8" to 1/2" adaptor and possibly the locktite, as I pass on on my way home form work. I'll order the nut through Bykebitz and pick it up on Saturday. The nut's still on there so it's safe enough to ride up to yours on Friday, and then spend saturday working on the sprocket hopefully in time for a bike club meet on Sunday.

no probs, me nut should be welded on by then good.gif
the locktite that halfords have is the cheap home use stuff, it wouldnt hold a fairing screw on dry.gif
i was using a cable tie to apply it to the output shaft and the cable tie is now rock solid, could use it in me local for a game of darts! blink.gif

QUOTE(Galilee @ Mon 11th Jun 2007, 08:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This forum seems full of loose nuts. rotflmmfao.gif
Most of them are probably unscrewed too. rotflmmfao.gif

rolleyes.gif true
"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips

current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, TDM900=commuter, Z750 hardtail=project
gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125

If you don't like my answers you should cease asking stupid questions!

#11 ChrisG

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 06:49 pm

QUOTE(Toneski @ Mon 11th Jun 2007, 11:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i was using a cable tie to apply it to the output shaft and the cable tie is now rock solid, could use it in me local for a game of darts! blink.gif


Sounds like you're gonna struggle to get it off to weld it rotflmmfao.gif
1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now :(
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.

post-1-1152402501.jpgeyesbloodshot.gifpost-1-1150550726.gifflame.gifpost-1-1150559830.gifautocom-logo-small.gif

#12 TonyDevil

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 08:33 pm

QUOTE(ChrisG @ Mon 11th Jun 2007, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sounds like you're gonna struggle to get it off to weld it rotflmmfao.gif

a couple of spot welds on the shaft/nut to add to the locktite
that bassad aint ever coming off
"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips

current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, TDM900=commuter, Z750 hardtail=project
gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125

If you don't like my answers you should cease asking stupid questions!

#13 Guest_GuyGraham_*

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 07:32 am

QUOTE(ChrisG @ Sun 10th Jun 2007, 05:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just checked my front sprocket nut, and it's loose, despite the folded but of the washer still being tight against it ranting.gif

Worse it'll the nut will turn but won't unscrew sad.gif

Guess I'm gonna have to cut it off (cut the last one off with a dremmel and a chisel), neaten up the thread, and hope it's not so badly damaged that a new one will hold. Anyone tried threadlock on them?



I must say this is sounding more and more like the same problem on the DRZ400, which suffers from a loosening front sprocket nut.
What happens on the DRZ, isn't the nut coming loose, as the tab washer prevents it from coming undone, but the very slight rocking back and forth on the splined shaft due to accelration and decelration, causes wear on one of the internal clamping faces behind the sprocket (inside the gearbox), which means a loss off clamping pressure, when it wears, and hence a 'loose' nut.

The solution is loctite 638 on the splines on the shaft, then put the sprocket on, and torque to 70Nm. This stops the sprocket rocking back and forth and hences stops the wear.
I have experienced this first hand and the loctite is a solution to the problem.

If the nut has come loose on your TDM, but the tab washer is still bent over, then the nut hasn't actually rotated and loosened. The only other thing that would cause a 'loose' nut would be wear between the clamping faces of the sprocket , oil seal spacer, bearing etc and hence loss of clamping force, which would allow the nut to be loose.

As tonski says, the normal loctite from halfords (blue 'stud locker' or red 'stud & bearing') is not strong enough. You need to get '638' from an industrial distributor
You will need a 3 legged puller to get the sprocket off when its time to change it

Edited by GuyGraham, 01 July 2008 - 05:33 pm.


#14 Guest_blarsen_*

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 08:40 am

Thanks for the tip.

I've lost the front sprocket once and it caused no end of pain to both me and the bike. I'll go in hunt of 638 right away.

Edited by blarsen, 12 June 2007 - 08:41 am.


#15 TonyDevil

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 10:16 am

thanks GG, nice to hear of a solution that others have come up with
are you saying to locktite the sprocket as well as the nut?

638 is the stuff i'm using good.gif
"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips

current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, TDM900=commuter, Z750 hardtail=project
gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125

If you don't like my answers you should cease asking stupid questions!

#16 Guest_GuyGraham_*

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 11:39 am

QUOTE(Toneski @ Tue 12th Jun 2007, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
thanks GG, nice to hear of a solution that others have come up with
are you saying to locktite the sprocket as well as the nut?

638 is the stuff i'm using good.gif



Yeah, a drop of the locitite on each spline around the shaft, then some on the insertion side of the sprocket in the splines, then fit sprocket, then torque up nut. Wheter you apply any on the thread of the nut is up to you, but with the tab washer bent over the nut isn't going to cime undone any way, as has been demonstrated, loose nuts are held in place by the tab washer

Believe me, it will not move with Loctitie 638.

#17 wicklamulla

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 12:03 pm

can ya simply chip away the 638 when ya need to remove the worn out front sprocket ??

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#18 Guest_GuyGraham_*

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 12:13 pm

QUOTE(wicklamulla @ Tue 12th Jun 2007, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
can ya simply chip away the 638 when ya need to remove the worn out front sprocket ??



No because its in between the splines on the shaft and the sprocket. Its like gluing the sprocket on in simple terms.

A puller is needed to get it off

#19 wicklamulla

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 12:15 pm

QUOTE(GuyGraham @ Tue 12th Jun 2007, 12:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No because its in between the splines on the shaft and the sprocket. Its like gluing the sprocket on in simple terms.

A puller is needed to get it off


i know the feeling all too well.......

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#20 ChrisG

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 07:01 pm

If Tony or JHT are happy to lend me the 638 then I reckon that's the way to go, although I need to find myself a socket to fit my thread cutting die anyway (Halfords only sell up to 32mm) so might well nip in to AHC or somewhere similar for that, in which case I may as well get myself some 638 at the same time. I'll attack the splines with a toothbrush and some degreaser first though. Mate of mine's got a 3 legged bearing puller that should do the job to get it off again when I next need to.

Mate at work has just bought a dremmel he's happy to lend me so that should make cutting the old nut off a bit easier than the cheapie imitation onel I've got.

My main worry is torquing it up to 70NM, if the thread is already damaged there's presumably going to be a risk of it jumping a thread, will it still need to go that tight if I've got locktite everywhere? I've ordered 2 new nuts from Fowlers from just in case I do trash one by overtorquing it.

So emulsion tubes Friday, sprocket nut Saturday, and I bet it pisses down with rain on Sunday
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