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Starting Issues - Xt1200


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#1 dmmsta

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 06:44 am

So, over last weekend I moved  the bike as I was DIYing, but cleverly managed to leave the keys in & ignition on (~18hrs)

 

Battery was completely dead come Monday morning.  No prob's I'll leave the battery charging Monday and work from home.  Checked Monday evening and after a little effort she sprung into life.  Sorted thinks I.

 

Day off with more DIYing on Tuesday.

 

Up for work Wed, try to start - fail.  Turning over, but no life.  It seems similar to the when the CSM sticks on the TDM.  I wasn't sure on the age/quality of the battery (Motobatt brand???) so got a new Yuasa and left that charging.

 

Rinse & repeat (without the new battery purchase) on Thursday...starter turning over, but engine not firing up.

 

Now this morning, and exactly the same.

I can smell fuel on turnover so don't think it's a starving issue.  I've read a couple of comments about the S10 if its started for only a few seconds, it gets confussed and runs very rich, but apparently disconnect battery resets the brain.

 

 

Any other suggestions from the wise?
I havent checked coil packs or plugs yet - not enough time till the weekend - seriously hoping its not coil packs (£150 each)


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#2 cobi

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 10:44 am

Yuasa batteries have higher cold cranking amps than motobatt. So a change of battery may be enough. Possibly a plug change if necessary. I have heard that short running periods can give problems restarting.



#3 dmmsta

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 11:07 am

Yuasa batteries have higher cold cranking amps than motobatt. So a change of battery may be enough. Possibly a plug change if necessary. I have heard that short running periods can give problems restarting.

Battery is already change, but didn't help this morning.

Will see if I can get a set of plugs quickly.

Defo plugs out and check tomorrow...


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#4 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 01:26 pm

Do you have a diagnostic mode loike the 9'er has Ad ?  Might show up the fault.


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#5 TKH

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 01:59 pm

Could it have taken the coil(s) out having ignition on for so log?



#6 dmmsta

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 10:26 pm

Do you have a diagnostic mode loike the 9'er has Ad ?  Might show up the fault.

Not sure - didn't even think about that...off to read service manual...

Diag mode located...additional checks tomorrow along side the plugs - thanks for the reminder SR :)

 

Could it have taken the coil(s) out having ignition on for so log?

I really bloody hope not.

I'd turned bike off via the kill switch, so not sure what that acutally "kills".  One hopes that the coils arent as delicate...£600 to replace the four of them is not a place I want to be in.


Edited by dmmsta, 12 October 2018 - 10:36 pm.

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#7 Gdogg

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 11:33 am

Remember as a yoof doing my apprenticeship I was told not to leave the ignition switched on without the engine actually running for long as it can mess up the coils, but that was yonks ago and not sure if things have moved on to prevent the issue. 


Just remembered - one of the fabricators at work had a similar problem with his Triumph 1200 Explorer, disconnected the battery to do some work on the bike over winter and had a right game trying to get the thing to run again in the Spring, didn't need anything replacing if I remember correctly, ended up taking it to Lings in Watton to clear faults on the ECU.


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#8 dmmsta

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 02:32 pm

Stripped down to the plugs this morning.

Plugs weren't wet, a little sooty.  Cleaned up with "soft" wire brush.

Reassembled, and still no joy.

 

Although it is trying to start just can't quite catch.

 

If it were a TDM I'd be checking the CSM, and replacing and taping the HT leads, which worries me that it's coils...


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#9 dablik

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 03:46 pm

Have you checked for spark while the plugs were out !!


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#10 cobi

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 04:03 pm

Probably a silly question but is the fuel pump running?



#11 dmmsta

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 05:19 pm

Have you checked for spark while the plugs were out !!

I didn't - which having put it all back together I realise is a silly thing...

 

Probably a silly question but is the fuel pump running?

Yes - thats all good.


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#12 dablik

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 05:55 pm

If you have a spare test with that, you could put a screw in the HT lead as well, think it would be good to know.


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#13 Apache

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 06:17 pm

Coils "should" be ok dmmsta...modern electronics has that kind of thing covered.....harks back to the old days of ignition on and points closed would melt the coils..points open you get away with it.
If checking for a spark keep a ht cap and plug in place. Ignitor may inhibit a spark if it perceives a short circuit in the ht cable..hth.

#14 dmmsta

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 07:38 am

No leads on the XT.

Stick coils, so coil & plug cap integrated.

 

If weather holds out I'll check spark today, but it's not looking great.

May have to be another day off in the week.  Or bit the bullet and see if the mechanic can take it in early for the 24K and assist


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#15 Rewop

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 07:50 am

I've got an XT1200 and had a hard to start issue once. It's a well known problem for some pre 2014 bikes and seems to occur if you start the bike up then turn it off a few seconds later without leaving the bike enough time to warm through. As you said it seems to confuse the ecu. I got mine restarted by jump starting it from my Mondeo. It fired up reluctantly at first after a few stabs of the starter. Remember to hold the throttle wide open when you try to restart, this helps a lot apparently. Many people think the problem is caused by the oe battery being to weak, and report that switching to the more powerful Yuasa YT14S solves the problem. One other fix I've read about is to remove the main fuse try starting then put fuse back in and start with wide open throttle. I've not tried this one. Good luck with jump start - don't forget wide open throttle

#16 dmmsta

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 09:49 am

I've got an XT1200 and had a hard to start issue once. It's a well known problem for some pre 2014 bikes and seems to occur if you start the bike up then turn it off a few seconds later without leaving the bike enough time to warm through. As you said it seems to confuse the ecu. I got mine restarted by jump starting it from my Mondeo. It fired up reluctantly at first after a few stabs of the starter. Remember to hold the throttle wide open when you try to restart, this helps a lot apparently. Many people think the problem is caused by the oe battery being to weak, and report that switching to the more powerful Yuasa YT14S solves the problem. One other fix I've read about is to remove the main fuse try starting then put fuse back in and start with wide open throttle. I've not tried this one. Good luck with jump start - don't forget wide open throttle

Many thanks Rewop.

 

I'd read about the issue, but couldn't find a lot of info on the fix.

 

Out of interest - can you recommend a good XT forum...

 

I ended up with a YTZ12S battery, so will remember about the 14S next time round...


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#17 Rewop

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 11:34 am

Hi dmmsta, You've probably already found the largest and most useful XT1200 forum  - Yamahasupertenere.com

 

This is an American site and most of the contributors are from the US, but there is a world wide following and the site has info' on anything and everything about the XT1200.  There are pages and pages on the "hard start" issue, but if you can't find what you need post a question and you will get a very quick response from someone thats been there/done  that. - Of course it goes without saying (but I'm saying it) that the site doesn't measure up to anywhere near the high standards and easy going friendly nature of Carpe-TDM :lol:



#18 dmmsta

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 06:42 pm

I've got an XT1200 and had a hard to start issue once. It's a well known problem for some pre 2014 bikes and seems to occur if you start the bike up then turn it off a few seconds later without leaving the bike enough time to warm through. As you said it seems to confuse the ecu. I got mine restarted by jump starting it from my Mondeo. It fired up reluctantly at first after a few stabs of the starter. Remember to hold the throttle wide open when you try to restart, this helps a lot apparently. Many people think the problem is caused by the oe battery being to weak, and report that switching to the more powerful Yuasa YT14S solves the problem. One other fix I've read about is to remove the main fuse try starting then put fuse back in and start with wide open throttle. I've not tried this one. Good luck with jump start - don't forget wide open throttle

In between wet spells I got out to the bike eariler, and following you enlightened knowledge the XT is running again.

 

I did the main fuse method, as well as hooking it up to the Mrs C-Max, and it fired up fairly quickly.

 

Left it to run until the fan kicked in, and then turned it off.  Gave it a while to cool a little and then fired up again - unaided the 2nd time.

 

I'll have a look at the forum you mentioned, think I've had a nose around there already, but will give it a proper chance this time ;)


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#19 dapleb

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 06:49 pm

Well done dmmmmm. All those clever gizmos and it doesn't like you starting and stopping it in a certain way!! At least it's sorted.
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#20 dmmsta

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 07:07 pm

Well done dmmmmm. All those clever gizmos and it doesn't like you starting and stopping it in a certain way!! At least it's sorted.

I know right..."with great power comes great responsibility"

 

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