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Starting Circuit Cut-Off Relay 3Vd

electrical relay problem

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#1 mh1848

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 06:43 pm

as it says i have been having trouble with the Starting circuit cut off relay - even bought a new one - however, as soon as i connected the new one up it started clicking rapidly - wiggle connector plug about and stops clicking - but no power to starter - put a used one back on and no clicking and power to starter - however, wiggle the plug about on that one as well and rapid clicking resumes and no power to starter,

 

now what i am wondering is:

1 - it is the connector plug into the relay - but no obvious sign or excessive wear or damage

 

2 - it is a wire running to one of the cut off switches (clutch, side-stand or neutral indicator) that is corroded, intermittent short or the like -

 

i do not want put all the stuff (tank, panels, etc. ) back on - till i get rid of excessive relay actuation -

 

 

i can check all the cut-off relays i have (4 of them - one new - two second had and the one that was on the bike when fuel tank started leaking and petrol melted the casing on the relay which started off this investigation)  according to Haynes - but given issues above i am erring on the wires being culprit

 

comments - suggestions welcome

 

 


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#2 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 09:52 am

Well, it's not the relay. :D  I'm no egg spurt on lectrics but it does sound like a dodgy connector/wire or possibly a bad earth somewhere.  Is the starter solenoid in good condition, I know these can corrode from the bottom and also the internals can rot so might be worth checking that out ?


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#3 Apache

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 06:14 pm

Rapid clicking as soon as you plug it in ? Plug it in followed by ignition on ? Or rapid clicking when you press starter switch ?

#4 MickC

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 08:51 am

My MK1 was sometimes not starting--no power--put new relay in --no effect-- turned out to be fuse box connection the main fuse jobby,as you wiggled the wire relay was clicking so I would say bad connection somewhere.

 

If I connected the battery to the small solenoid wire the solenoid clicked and it turned over but had no spark as the power was not going through the fuse box,dont know if that helps at all.



#5 mh1848

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:57 pm

relatively rapid clicking once ignition turned on - wiggle about with plug and wires clicking stops - with old relay can then get to run - with brand new relay if clicking stops then no power to starter.

 

i have already replaced the complete fuse-box - so do not think that is the culprit - plus relatively new solenoid - but i have occasionally come across wires with corrosion - so think i need to first check for continuity on all wires from relay to various safety switches and also to the solenoid - and also check all the switches are operating as they should

 

have done a lot of work on it in the past year and thought all gremlins were fixed - got to expect these foibles on bike that is now over 25 year old :huh:


TDM 1991 - two into one micron mated with a A16 Road and Race Supplies Stainless short can - Conti Road Attacks - Kagazume Wavy Rear Disc - Bagster tank cover - homemade sheepskin seat cover on top of custom seat cover - NonFango topbox on homemade mount - custom fusebox - very loud airhorn and cyclone alarm


#6 wicklamulla

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:15 pm

relatively rapid clicking once ignition turned on - wiggle about with plug and wires clicking stops - with old relay can then get to run - with brand new relay if clicking stops then no power to starter.

 

i have already replaced the complete fuse-box - so do not think that is the culprit - plus relatively new solenoid - but i have occasionally come across wires with corrosion - so think i need to first check for continuity on all wires from relay to various safety switches and also to the solenoid - and also check all the switches are operating as they should

 

have done a lot of work on it in the past year and thought all gremlins were fixed - got to expect these foibles on bike that is now over 25 year old :huh:

  wonder if the kill switch or ignition switch is part of the problem?


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#7 Apache

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:57 pm

You sound like you know what to check. Red/black 12v + via engine run switch. Sky blue negative via neutral switch. Blue/yellow negative via sidestand. Black/yellow negative via clutch but only when sidestand up. The relay can only chatter if there is power on the pull in winding. Chatter is usually a poor connection. You switch on ,the relay engages,the poor connection causes the power to collapse,the relay drops out,the circuit voltage rises, the relay engages and so on causing the chatter noise. I would suspect the kill switch or associated wiring. If the neutral light is on then the same cable provides a negative to the winding of the relay. If the neutral wiring failed sidestand up and clutch in would provide an alternative negative to the winding. So,if it still chatters with neutral engaged , stand up and clutch in check the red/black for a solid 12v+ . Don't use a meter ,a meter will register voltage regardless. Rig up a bulb holder with minimum 12v 10w bulb. Check for 12v+ using the battery negative as earth. If dead,the load of the bulb is causing the 12v kill switch circuit to collapse. Investigate that. If good ,check again this time using the relay earth inputs explained above. Hopefully makes sense. Too far away or I'd be willing to help out. Being an Autoelec every bike I've owned I strip and pack all connectors with Vaseline when I buy the bike,never had a problem. Touch wood.......

#8 mh1848

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:46 pm

Thanks for input Apache - as you say a case of tracing and checking

 

and good tip about bulb rather than meter - think i still have one in the toolkit used to use to see when points opened and shut (bulb may need changed though!!)


TDM 1991 - two into one micron mated with a A16 Road and Race Supplies Stainless short can - Conti Road Attacks - Kagazume Wavy Rear Disc - Bagster tank cover - homemade sheepskin seat cover on top of custom seat cover - NonFango topbox on homemade mount - custom fusebox - very loud airhorn and cyclone alarm


#9 mh1848

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:25 pm

update - checked as above and Black/yellow negative via clutch but only when sidestand up was the only i could not get the bulb to light - not had chance yet to check switch but that is next step


TDM 1991 - two into one micron mated with a A16 Road and Race Supplies Stainless short can - Conti Road Attacks - Kagazume Wavy Rear Disc - Bagster tank cover - homemade sheepskin seat cover on top of custom seat cover - NonFango topbox on homemade mount - custom fusebox - very loud airhorn and cyclone alarm


#10 mh1848

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 08:13 pm

Well after a lot of time spent tracing wires and checking continuity and power - with some help from Apache - i was ready to give up and fit an alternative relay - however before that i cut of the connector block into the relay and renewed all the micro spades and gave it a try = problem solved!!!

 

It looks like a fracture in one of the spade connectors in the block on one the wires - and looks like it was the red power feed

 

so all back together and get the MOT booked


TDM 1991 - two into one micron mated with a A16 Road and Race Supplies Stainless short can - Conti Road Attacks - Kagazume Wavy Rear Disc - Bagster tank cover - homemade sheepskin seat cover on top of custom seat cover - NonFango topbox on homemade mount - custom fusebox - very loud airhorn and cyclone alarm


#11 dapleb

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 08:44 pm

Well done mh!
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