29 replies to this topic

[Nog]

at least not the version of Brexit the most extreme xenophobes want. 

 

Brexit isn't about xenophobia.

 

The far right have obviously jumped on it, but the majority of people voted for political independence and don't mind controlled immigration, in the same way countries like Australia control immigration but no-one screams xenophobia at them.

 

Anyway, as above, best to keep it light, you know what they say, politics and religion

[fixitsan]

 

Brexit isn't about xenophobia.

 

The far right have obviously jumped on it, but the majority of people voted for political independence and don't mind controlled immigration, in the same way countries like Australia control immigration but no-one screams xenophobia at them.

 

Anyway, as above, best to keep it light, you know what they say, politics and religion

 

 

You're dead right about what people voted for

 

One angle I've looked at is the total fertility rate, TFR figures. (keeping it light )

 

A TFR of 2.1 (number of children born to each woman)  is required for a population to sustain it's numbers

 

UK, at the turn of the century, when Blair was accused of 'letting in so many and we don't know how many', the TFR was 1.7. The UK TFR is now 1.9

Germany, just took in almost the most immigrants of any EU country. Germany's TFR is a dangerously low 1.5

Scotland's TFR is 1.47, and may be why Scotland "offers a safe haven and warm welcome to all displaced persons"

 

Australia's TFR only dropped to below 2 in the 1980's, previously it had been very high, and is one of the main reasons why they operated strict immigration controls (from a historical standpoint). They did not have the scope to cater for immigrants

 

In the UK we have come from another direction that of having a lower than needed TFR and require immigration , if the population is to be sustained.

 

Low TFR rates go hand in hand with levels of development usually. The more advanced a country becomes the fewer births. people enjoy their leisure time, and because child mortality rates are usually reduced too then people see no rush to have lots of kids

 

The main underlying problem here, as most of us have read by now, is that the population is 'getting older'. The older people need looked after and for that there is the need for more younger people working in order to pay the taxes required to care for the older generation (the ones the government didn't take savings from anyway.....)

 

The fertility rate of the whole world has just dropped below 2.5 (and continues to fall)

 

What we lack in the UK are skilled jobs, a productive manufacturing sector, and sometimes a youth who are willing to 'go in at the bottom'

Edited by fixitsan, 28 March 2018 - 08:16 am.

[Nog]

What we lack in the UK are ........ and sometimes a youth who are willing to 'go in at the bottom'

 

With you on that.  It's a big problem with the 'millennials' as they have grown up in a society that has somewhat pandered to them and allowed them to have what they want when they want it.  This doesn't translate well into adulthood when the reality is the world doesn't work like that.  As such they think they can walk into a high paid job instantly and think it's someone else's fault if they wont give them the job.

 

I actually think it's a shame the EU hasn't allowed member states to be more flexible on things like that, as I doubt this issue would have come up otherwise.  More and more restrictions push people into a mindset where they push back, and Brexit was the result.

[fixitsan]

 

With you on that.  It's a big problem with the 'millennials' as they have grown up in a society that has somewhat pandered to them and allowed them to have what they want when they want it. 

 

 

Very true. I can't say what caused it, but I would like to lay some blame at the feet of the marketing and advertising experts who sell to them. The millenials have been exposed to some of the most toxic and persuasive advertising ever invented, it is not wonder they have an unrealistic or distorted idea of our world. !

 

 

This whole documentary is pretty interesting, but this  bit stood out for me, having a millenial 22yr old......

 

[Bjørge]

What we lack in the UK are skilled jobs, a productive manufacturing sector, and sometimes a youth who are willing to 'go in at the bottom'

 

I think this is just a reflection of parent's wiew on things: Dress nicely, learn a few buzzwords and show the right attitude and you're doing waaay better than any craftsman or its like....

Edited by Bjørge, 28 March 2018 - 10:19 am.

[Nog]

Interesting video.

 

I think another issue is affluence.  When I was a kid my parents simply didn't have the money to get the things I wanted, so no matter how much I may have asked, I soon learnt you don't just get something because you ask or kick off about it.

 

Usually I had to work for something e.g. do some chores for pocket money etc, so you start to value the things you buy as you've had to put effort into getting it.

 

These days people have a lot more disposable cash, and so it's much easier for parents to give in to their kids demands for a 'quiet life' or because they feel little Johnny shouldn't be the odd one out at school.  The kids then also have a massive disposable attitude and want the next smart phone for example when there's absolutely nothing wrong with the one they have and they don't care if they break it because they haven't had to work for it, so it has no real emotional value to them.

Edited by Nog, 28 March 2018 - 12:38 pm.

[Swarf]

Interesting video.
 
I think another issue is affluence.  When I was a kid my parents simply didn't have the money to get the things I wanted, so no matter how much I may have asked, I soon learnt you don't just get something because you ask or kick off about it.
 
Usually I had to work for something e.g. do some chores for pocket money etc, so you start to value the things you buy as you've had to put effort into getting it.
 
These days people have a lot more disposable cash, and so it's much easier for parents to give in to their kids demands for a 'quite life' or because they feel little Johnny should be the odd one out at school.  The kids then also have a massive disposable attitude and want the next smart phone for example when there's absolutely nothing wrong with the one they have and they don't care if they break it because they haven't had to work for it, so it has no real emotional value to them.

I think this is a massive part of the problem. When I was starting out I had kids pretty early, and ended up working two jobs to make ends meet. Then along came tax credits and it all got abused from there, now the majority seem to believe someone else will always sort them out.....

[fixitsan]

Interesting video.

 

I think another issue is affluence.  When I was a kid my parents simply didn't have the money to get the things I wanted, so no matter how much I may have asked, I soon learnt you don't just get something because you ask or kick off about it.

 

Usually I had to work for something e.g. do some chores for pocket money etc, so you start to value the things you buy as you've had to put effort into getting it.

 

These days people have a lot more disposable cash, and so it's much easier for parents to give in to their kids demands for a 'quite life' or because they feel little Johnny should be the odd one out at school.  The kids then also have a massive disposable attitude and want the next smart phone for example when there's absolutely nothing wrong with the one they have and they don't care if they break it because they haven't had to work for it, so it has no real emotional value to them.

 

 

Amen to all of that

[fixitsan]

 

I think this is just a reflection of parent's wiew on things: Dress nicely, learn a few buzzwords and show the right attitude and you're doing waaay better than any craftsman or its like....

 

Very true. A recent survey I heard about showed that if you're tall, good looking and charming you are much more likely to come out from an interview successfully than if you have fewer of those attributes. In some cases they reviewed the person who got the job had very baseline skills compared to some who didn't get the job.  It was assumed that on the job training would be good enough to bring the new recruit up to speed, because the job wasn't a particularly taxing one requiring them to really think for themselves.  What could be worse for a boss than a member of staff who can think for themselves and make good decisions in the absence of their manager

[Nog]

 

A recent survey I heard about showed that if you're tall, good looking and charming you are much more likely to come out from an interview successfully

 

Well I'm none of those things so explains a lot