18 replies to this topic

[NickIAM]

Attach Optimiser to Booster Battery Pack?

We are due to move soon, and our TDM and little scooter which are both currently in sheds with mains trickle chargers (optimisers if I remember rightly) will be in a garage in a block with no mains power...

I know there are solar powered trickle chargers available, but this might be tricky as the bikes will be in the garage. And also there could be other issues I understand...

I do however have a heavy duty battery booster for cars etc.

Could I attach both trickle chargers to the battery booster permanently? And simply take this into the flat every month or three to recharge that?

Would this work and be safe?

And if so, is there a best way to do so? I guess it is simply a matter of creating a means of connecting the chargers to the power pack...? So could this be done simply via taking the plugs off to expose the live and neutral wires, and clipping these on the charging leads?

Thanks guys

😊

Ps. I know some say there is no need to keep on a charger. But I have had issues before. And quite often with the scooter if left for a while.

[dapleb]

Sorry can't help with electrical dilemma but if they are out of use for long enough it is probably best to just take batteries off and put them somewhere more comfy for winter.

If you then feel the need to torture them with a minimate then that can be done where you already have power.

[ChrisG]

Does the garage have a window? You don't need a lot of charge so I doubt a solar panel would even need direct sunlight.  I don't use my car very much at the moment so have a small solar panel I put on the dash and plug in to the obd port which seems to keep it topped up ok

https://bars4cars.co...nel-obd-version

 

Your booster battery is basically a 12v battery optimised for high load rather than long duration, and it's the same voltage as your bike battery, so not particularly good as a charger

[Studley Ramrod]

I'd go with Dappers suggestion, esp. if you're not gonna be using the bikes over winter.  From memory the booster packs hold a lot of amps so not conducive to trickel charging.

[NickIAM]

Thanks guys

I do use the bikes over the winter. But there might be a few weeks between using one or other at times, or just a day or so. And I am just reassured if they are always kept topped up.

ChrisG, the garage doesn’t have a window. So I’d have to run a lead out and onto the roof or screwed to the side or back of the communal block, so not necessarily impossible but not ideal either.

- ‘Your booster battery is basically a 12v battery optimised for high load rather than long duration, and it's the same voltage as your bike battery, so not particularly good as a charger’

And

- ‘From memory the booster packs hold a lot of amps so not conducive to trickel charging.’


I was assuming the bikes’ batteries would be protected from any damage due to the charge going through the optimisers (so not connected direct)? And as solar trickle chargers are extremely low power, it wouldn’t take much to keep them topped up...

But if the issue is with the nature of the booster specifically, as opposed to an actual battery, would I be better off purchasing an actual car battery instead, and keeping that topped up occasionally via one of the trickle chargers at home? As we said, the bikes won’t need much power. It’s only to keep them topped up.

I just don’t want to worry about whether or not they might start when needed. And removing the batteries each time I go for a ride sounds like a real nightmare. Especially as I already have the optimisers.

[ChrisG]

Your trickle charger is presumably a mains one so you'd need a 240v invert too, something like this https://www.screwfix...ocket-12v/61728

 

If you buy a battery specifically for the job take a look at Leisure batteries rather than can batteries, they're intended to provide low current for a long time rather than high current for a short time like car battery.  I'd have though a car battery would be fine though, we used to run electric fence units off old car batteries with no problem.

Edited by ChrisG, 03 November 2020 - 07:27 pm.

[Studley Ramrod]

You might be right there Nick, I confess to knowing little on the workings of an optimate.  Would it be worth first trying it out on a battery you don't rely on ?

 

Just a thought. Would it be worth seeing what happens if you don't trickle charge the batteries ?  If you use them over winter you might find there's no need to keep them on battery chargers ?  I've had my mk1 with same battery for a good few years now and never needed a battery charger, despite it sometimes being stood up for a good 3-4 months.  That said, I'm aware that the 9'er might use more juice when stood.

[Catteeclan]

Having the batteries off the bikes will also give you a little extra security.

[dandywarhol]

I run a 80 watt solar panel on the roof of my lockup, feeding a 130A/H leisure battery (short circuit amperage of 2622Amps!) This feeds my LED strip lights, diesel heater and battery trickle. It sits at 13.6 volts. Bit of a heavy fecker at 43kg but does the jobs well. 

 

https://www.blueboxb...IyZj03_842h2GzQ

[NickIAM]

Thanks again guys...

Its occurred to me, from your replies, maybe I dont need to use the optimisers...?

But since I have the booster already,

And as the bikes already have the optimiser leads attached and accessible...

Perhaps I could simply get a male optimiser connector and connect to the booster...?

And just connect the booster occasionally to each bike/scooter if I think the bikes havent been used in a little while?

Does this sound reasonable?

Is there any harm in connecting the batteries direct to a booster without starting? Id like to think it would either boost the charge or at worst do absolutely nothing if the batteries are already fully charged.

What do we think?

Ps. Or are we in the same situation re the booster being too high amps, and therefore one of the leisure batteries would still be better? And I should either connect this to the trickle chargers OR direct to the batteries via the optimiser leads as above?

Edited by NickIAM, 04 November 2020 - 12:09 pm.

[MarshallStone]

I think this is a wise option

[Apache]

Pull the main fuse. They'll sit for months and still be good....hth

[dandywarhol]

No matter what A/h the leisure/booster battery is, the charger will only draw what it needs, so a high amp battery won't affect the charger

[fixitsan]

I've cracked the low power solar dilemna with a small panel, small charge controller and a small motorcycle battery running a security light (12v design)  at the bottom of the garden. I originally thought I would just attach a low power solar panel to the battery, but in full sun the voltage can creep too high and boil the electrolyte, hence the use of a solar controller.

 

I paid £24 for the panel and £3 for the controller (China direct)

 

For 4 months the security light has worked every night when the dogs walk down to that dark corner of the garden, and during the day, even if there was no full sun, the battery is fully recharged.

 

The use of the controller provides a layer of protection, because it disconnects the panel from the battery, if the voltage climbs too high.

 

I'm thinking of adding a charge socket to my bikes and plugging them all into the security light battery to keep all batteries floating together.

 

You don't need to keep a lead acid battery on float charge though. Under normal conditions a monthly topup of an hour or two at 14V has always  worked well for me. It all depends on the health of the battery ( in terms of point on the life cycle it's currently at) which can be easily be observed by measuring the voltage 24 hours after finishing a charge cycle, and then measuring again 1 month later (without being 'used'). This gives you a rough guide for how much that particular battery will self discharge over time (as they all do) and let you know how often you should top it up again.

 

This is the controller - £3 from China, £7.50 in the UK ! https://www.ebay.co....3EAAOSwahZazHUU

 

For the panel I found a supplier who was selling surplus stock of the very high quality panels fitted to roadside led signs. For their small size the output is one of the highest I've seen, and the specs on the label are, unlike others I've tried, as good as they say they are - https://www.ebay.co....872.m2749.l2649

 

 

I also have one of these controllers charging batteries in a workshop, bought because it has useful USB outputs too https://www.ebay.co....oIAAOSwyKhe9HgK

 

 

 

As a guide, the 20W system above is way overkill for keeping a bike battery topped up, but what it means for me is that even in winter, with days of very low light levels, the battery, which is used at night time, can be fully recharged in one day. I suppose for a basic system for a single motorbike (and no security lights) even a cheap 5W panel into the cheapest controller would keep a battery topped up if it isn't being depleted on a daily basis.

Edited by fixitsan, 06 November 2020 - 04:23 pm.

[NickIAM]

No matter what A/h the leisure/booster battery is, the charger will only draw what it needs, so a high amp battery won't affect the charger

That’s interesting...

So you think I could indeed attach both trickle chargers to the booster when not in use (and take it into the flat occasionally to top it up)?

[Pedro]

I use a 4w solar panel to top mine up when I know its not going to be used for a while but then in Spain sun light is not a problem. Have you thought about disconnecting the positive cable from the relay when not in use? You can use your powerpack if needed when you connect it back on. Not as good as removing the battery but hell of a lot easier.

[steve27bha]

...
So you think I could indeed attach both trickle chargers to the booster when not in use (and take it into the flat occasionally to top it up)?

 

No.

 

AFAIK, and unless you have stated otherwise, trickle chargers / Optimates use mains AC power and transform it to around 15V DC, with some form of voltage controller to suit the battery type and respond to the battery's state of charge.. Certainly my Optimate plugs into a 230V AC socket.

 

Again, AFAIK a booster unit is there to supplement a battery when that battery is low in power, not to charge it. The booster does not have a sufficiently high voltage to act as a charger, as said above, or the control to do it properly if it did. The standard battery will lose charge naturally as the electrons or whatever move around. Connecting another 12V battery will not stop or reverse that.

 

Maybe a pair of boosters connected in series to give 24 V and run thru' a controller like Fixitsan's would do the job. I'd try a photovoltaic panel lying on the roof, a discrete wire into the garage to a voltage controller and a connector to an Optimate pigtail on the bike, if I couldn't find a ready-made version to buy.

 

This Yuasa manual has all the info about batteries and their maintenance:- http://ktm950.info/l...a Batteries.pdf

Edited by steve27bha, 08 November 2020 - 10:42 pm.

[fixitsan]

 

 

This Yuasa manual has all the info about batteries and their maintenance:- http://ktm950.info/l...a Batteries.pdf

 

 

And here's an article about charging voltages for lead acid batteries, which includes temperature considerations to be mulled over https://www.powerstream.com/SLA.htm

[NickIAM]

Thanks again to all.

Understood.