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Fork Oil Seal (mkI)


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#41 ROB1

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 09:55 pm

QUOTE(Stink-Foot @ Tue 20th Jun 2006, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Popping them out with air pressure crossed my mind too. I just thought I'd remove the dust seal and circlip and land a few wheelies really hard.. Could ruin the head bearings though.

Then again if the seal leaks enough for oil to pass through surely air would escape through the leak too? In my experience the seals stick pretty hard to their housing in the bottom fork leg and don't come out easily even when taking the forks apart.
I must admit I have no idea what that screw is there for. Could be a drain plug I guess. I recommend draining and flushing the forks properly anyway. There's no way all the crap would come out of hole that small. The forks are bitch to drain, once You're sure You've got all the oil out there's still a litre ready to spill out on Your shoes at the worst possible moment.

Let us know if You find an easier way to get them out. I know I often try to do things the easy and quick way and end up using much more time and effort than doing a thorough job the first time around laugh.gif .
Your Roadster looks wonderful. Isn't the BB engine pretty heavy for it though?

I've dreamed off building a retro rod in 50's style for years. Fitting a flat head in some late 20's coupe perhaps. Didn't they start making Ardun OHV heads again? Maybe one day if I win the lottery or pull a succesful bank job...
it is a drain screw.just use if changing oil.full strip is the best way tho.

#42 stevepsd

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 01:29 am

QUOTE(Stink-Foot @ Tue 20th Jun 2006, 08:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I must admit I have no idea what that screw is there for. Could be a drain plug I guess. I recommend draining and flushing the forks properly anyway. There's no way all the crap would come out of hole that small. The forks are bitch to drain, once You're sure You've got all the oil out there's still a litre ready to spill out on Your shoes at the worst possible moment.


That screw is indeed a simple drain plug.

I have tried on other bikes to 'blow' the seal out using 150+psi air into the drain hole (CB750F Super Sport) and all I succeded in doing was blowing oil out around the fork tube...the seal around the fork tube gives up way before the seal even starts to move out of the fork leg sad.gif

No easy way to do this, but to take them apart.

-steve

Edited by stevepsd, 21 June 2006 - 01:30 am.

'92 TDM850 Corbin Seat, Stainless Laser Pro-Stock Exhaust, K&N, Ceramic Coated downpipes, BMW F650
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#43 Tom S

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 10:49 am

QUOTE(Stink-Foot @ Tue 20th Jun 2006, 07:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know I often try to do things the easy and quick way and end up using much more time and effort than doing a thorough job the first time around laugh.gif .

I hear ya! Been there, done that many times. Sounds like we think alike. Between what you & Stevepsd are saying my idea ain't sounding to good. Plus the fact that my air compressor tank has a hole in it that is halfass plugged & I can only hold about 50 psi. right now. I have the seal soaking in some good penetrating oil. I will warm up the fork tube before trying to pull the seal too. It was recomended for another fork. I'll try the air just for kicks, but, don't sound good.
QUOTE(Stink-Foot @ Tue 20th Jun 2006, 07:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Your Roadster looks wonderful. Isn't the BB engine pretty heavy for it though?

Naa, car holds it up just fine. ; )
It is a heavy mill, but easier to make power with a big block. It sits well back, & I can't really prove it but I think the car has very close to a 50/50 weight distribution. Car weighed 2500 lbs when I shipped here in '76.
Sort of a rare engine these days. Has that optional rear wheel steering too. Just press down hard with the right foot. ; ) Was giving a guy a ride in it one time years ago. He ask if it had a problem with wheel spin. I said "No, how much do you want?"
Still ain't heard the end of that. HA!
QUOTE(Stink-Foot @ Tue 20th Jun 2006, 07:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've dreamed off building a retro rod in 50's style for years. Fitting a flat head in some late 20's coupe perhaps. Didn't they start making Ardun OHV heads again? Maybe one day if I win the lottery or pull a succesful bank job...

I think you are right about the heads. And the lottery & bank job. And that's just for the heads!
I have not looked for a long time, but you might do a net search for 'French Flatheads'. Very interesting. Not legal for Bonniville.
Here is one link. There are a bunch.
http://www.reds-head...m/html/ffh.html

You guys want pix when I get that forkin fork apart?


#44 Walt_M.

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 08:14 pm

Back in the 70s, when the fork seals started leaking, it was time to sell the bike! However, I did learn how to change them and it is pretty simple. Disassemble the fork, remove the dust seal and retaining ring. Then using a pry bar or a big screw driver (a tire iron works well too). Put the business end under the lip of the seal and a block of wood between the bar and the opposite side and start prying the seal out. Work your way around the seal and be patient and it will come out.

#45 dapleb

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 12:59 pm

Okey dokey.....forks are loosely assembled. Just need to do some torquing and remove old/install new now.

I did think the damper bolt at end of stanchion would need something counterheld to be able to do it up, but both sides did up fine without a problem.

Only daft thing I did was to mix up the springs and end caps so previous LHS on RHS and vicky. I had installed one before noticing. rolleyes.gif

Here is the only special tool I used (but certainly not required): Attached File  foil_level.jpg   56.05KB   98 downloads This was the clever idea mentioned by some smart arse on forum II, but cannae remember who or I'd give ya the credit.

This made getting the level right a piece of pish, without the little more/little less fiasco.

Make sure end of tube is cut square. Measure up from da borrum (151mm as standard for mkI) and make a mark. I inserted through a paint can lid to hold it steady, remeasure to mek sure correct. Plop on top of fork tube. Pump until noubt else comes oot.....I checked after with ruler and torch method and it was spot on both sides. Very carroty.

Bought two litres of fork oil....but unlike the mkII, the mkI only needs one litre.

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#46 Tom S

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 03:24 pm

FORKIN FORKS!
More questions & more info on forkin.
Found some more very good info here, thanks to Steve G. Just some snips, so read all his post, & Stink Foot's too if you want to do your own forkin job. Steve has a 900, not 850, still--, good write!
http://www.carpe-tdm...6164

QUOTE(SteveGlover @ Fri 26th May 2006, 10:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
----"Haynes book of Lies", ie its not always correct.

Like the factory manual. I keep adding notes to it.
QUOTE
1. Slacken off the preload adjuster, ie fully out.

Factory manual says nothing about this. But I just did a Buell (WP) fork a few weeks ago (again!) & it's factory manual says the same thing.
This necessary on Mk1 '92 TDM 850? I'll do it anyway.
But Buell did not have a stuck/any lockout. Just click away. Soaking in penetrant along with seal. Still waiting for parts but want to be ready. Doubt they have ever been serviced. 39K miles.

I pulled the drain screw & pumped out some oil, nasty lookin oil too. Less than 1/2 liter. Stuck a blow gun in there and gave it a few blasts of weakly 50 psi air. As predicted, no go. Did not blast oil past the seal though, did hold some pressure. Not enough.

Heated up the upper end first too. Also heated up the lower to remove the lower allen bolt like Stinky-Scraping-Foot said. : )
(nice pic!)
Good, tight, but came out with no drama.
I hate Loctight. The Buell was a bitch with the 5mm or so allen. Buell must love that stuff.

So, I should also change the forkin oil in the other forker now. Somewhere I read in this book, 15 W. Type 01=15w in this book.
I think/pretty sure. Can't find it now.
Bad manual, Buell factory manual rocks! Best I have ever used for a car or bike.
I have read here that the 01=10 w. But some peeps like 15w, on different year bikes maybe.
So, 10w or 15w doods? What you say? Use the Yammie manual specs, or-? Bumpy roads here.
Just average riding, don't want to open a can of worms on oil or preferences or riding style.
Leaning towards 15. I think this bike needs some firming up. Seems to wallow thru the fast curves. Think it is rear shock. Set on hard. Last owner was a heavy dude. Fast rider too.
I know little about street suspension setup, (unless something is bad wrong) seldom push that hard on the pavement. Just an old dirt biker, I could do those easy enough.
Was good in the dirt, but always say that I never claimed to be a great street/road rider. Maybe too many times sliding down the pavement on those old 50's- 60's tyres. Did both street & dirt from '58 until '73-'74 just got back to street 10 years ago.
Still like to go fast. And stay upright.
QUOTE(Walt_M. @ Wed 21st Jun 2006, 11:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
------ I did learn how to change them -- using a pry bar or a big screw driver (a tire iron works well too). ---

Mmm- Walt, bud, thanks, but I don't think you read much of this thread. I did that too. I have changed lots of seals, not just bikes, like that. That ain't gonna work here. No offence. Been wrenchin on all kinds stuff for 48 years or so.
Tire iron?! Well, you should look down in there.

#47 Tom S

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 03:46 pm

QUOTE(dapleb @ Thu 22nd Jun 2006, 04:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
(151mm as standard for mkI)

Dap, just saw this as I posted. WTF?
Wait, never mind, sorry, I was thinking of the 395cc volume, not the mm distance measurement. I am whacked.
Was thinking you were somehow way off, but it's me.
But this manual says 165mm. BFD huh?
From what I have read here, guys do tune it with a little volume.
Just trying to keep passing the info.


#48 dapleb

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 04:13 pm

QUOTE(Tom S @ Thu 22nd Jun 2006, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But this manual says 165mm. BFD huh?
From what I have read here, guys do tune it with a little volume.
Just trying to keep passing the info.


Yeah tis big diff blink.gif Is that in the mkI Yam Workshop Manual?

This is a race against time to get ready for the RTT next week, so I left the oil levels as standard, which is the same as last time and felt great for me. I may well try a diff level with the old forks once they are rebuilt (they have the drain holes so I can reduce oil level easily).

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Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.

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#49 Tom S

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 04:35 pm

QUOTE(dapleb @ Thu 22nd Jun 2006, 07:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is that in the mkI Yam Workshop Manual?

Yup. It is. Seen it posted here also.
QUOTE
This is a race against time to get ready for the RTT next week, so I left the oil levels as standard, which is the same as last time and felt great for me.

Right on.
Don't know what RTT is, but ---go for it.

#50 dapleb

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 05:04 pm

RTT: http://www.carpe-tdm...hp?showforum=13 .. you comin?
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"

If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117

Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.

Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.

#51 ROB1

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 07:26 pm

QUOTE(dapleb @ Thu 22nd Jun 2006, 07:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i suppose you already know this but the oil level is FAR more important than the volume.try to grt the measurement a accurate as poss.i did my mk2 850 but ended up reducing the oil level as the forks felt too stiff.

#52 dapleb

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 09:54 pm

QUOTE(ROB1 @ Thu 22nd Jun 2006, 08:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i suppose you already know this but the oil level is FAR more important than the volume.try to grt the measurement a accurate as poss.i did my mk2 850 but ended up reducing the oil level as the forks felt too stiff.



Yup, thats why I made the lille measuring doohickey. smile.gif

Forks now completed and fitted: Attached File  forks_newvsold.jpg   49.88KB   46 downloads

Its a shame the paint on my BRAND NEW discs from Stealth blistered and fell off as soon as I reached the torque spec for the disc holding bolts (20nM)! blink.gif Its too late to send the damn things back since they took 3 weeks to arrive....guess I just hope that their engineering is much much better than their painting! huh.gif Attached File  stealth_1.jpg   45.98KB   45 downloads EDIT: apparently I am getting a new set delivered when I return from travels as they painted straight on annodised centres by mistake.

Have just hand painted (what a mess) to try and stop corrosion until I get back and sort out the centres. Attached File  stealth_on.jpg   41.15KB   46 downloads



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If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117

Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.

Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.

#53 Stink-Foot

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 06:26 am

The manual tells You to slacken off the preload adjuster only to minimize the force the spring puts on the fork cap. Less change off damaging the threads. Preload is adjusted by the larger part with a hex head, the clicker screw adjusts rebound damping.

QUOTE
I hate Loctight. The Buell was a bitch with the 5mm or so allen. Buell must love that stuff.


Yeah that stuff can be a pain but I think they used it for a reason. Better put a little to the allen bolt at the bottom and to where the damper rod screws in to the fork cap when installing.

QUOTE
So, I should also change the forkin oil in the other forker now. Somewhere I read in this book, 15 W. Type 01=15w in this book.
I think/pretty sure. Can't find it now.
Bad manual, Buell factory manual rocks! Best I have ever used for a car or bike.
I have read here that the 01=10 w. But some peeps like 15w, on different year bikes maybe.
So, 10w or 15w doods? What you say? Use the Yammie manual specs, or-? Bumpy roads here.
Just average riding, don't want to open a can of worms on oil or preferences or riding style.
Leaning towards 15. I think this bike needs some firming up. Seems to wallow thru the fast curves. Think it is rear shock. Set on hard. Last owner was a heavy dude. Fast rider too.
I know little about street suspension setup, (unless something is bad wrong) seldom push that hard on the pavement. Just an old dirt biker, I could do those easy enough.
Was good in the dirt, but always say that I never claimed to be a great street/road rider. Maybe too many times sliding down the pavement on those old 50's- 60's tyres. Did both street & dirt from '58 until '73-'74 just got back to street 10 years ago.
Still like to go fast. And stay upright.


I found 15w caused way too much rebound damping, it gave me a really harsh ride when hitting potholes or such. Wallowing through fast curves does sound like You could use some more damping though. You said You think the forks have never been serviced before so You're riding on really old oils anyway? I've allways changed mine annually and it makes a huge difference every time. I would try 10W first and change to 15W later if I were You.. Then again I'm small 70kg boy..

It's sort of difficult to give any recommendations since suspension settings depend so much on personal preferences. The route of trial and error is the only way to get it like You want it I'm afraid.. But please do Yourself a favor and get an aftermarket rear shock. The original is rubbish anyway and mine was totally shot at 30 000 miles.

Dandy gave me a great tip about altering the oil levels. Lowering the level by 10mm made the front a lot more comfortable at low speeds / rough surface without effecting high speed performance. The oil levels are measured with the forks completely compressed and without the spring. Before measuring pump the forks and damper rod up and down until no more air comes out. It can take a while but You'll feel/hear when there's no more air. (You propably knew this anyway but it could be useful for someone else smile.gif )
Beat Your dick like it owes You money.

#54 Tom S

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 07:51 am

Damn, Mr Stinky-Scrapie-Foot! You give good info! I get it now. I thought that preload nut was a lock nut for the damping clicker screw.
I almost ask before. Duh--
Now after reading this & lookin a lot closer at the manual I can see what is up. The clicker screw is moving now too.
I think you & a some others here just saved me some headaches. I got more notes to pencil into the manual too. Every time I have to use it for something I end up adding notes.
I should be able to get it apart ok now. If my parts ever come in I should be in business.
I'll pay close attention to that oil. Good info.
Maybe some of this can end up in the suppository, er, I mean 'Depository'.
You da Man!

#55 Tom S

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 08:39 am

QUOTE(dapleb @ Thu 22nd Jun 2006, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Emm, no, man. I ain't even breathin hard---
Still not sure what the RTT is about, but It would be a long ride for me. Ain't seen no pix of large unruly biker crowds. Yet.
Hell, I didn't even go to this:
Dust To Dawson. About 500 miles from here.
http://www.advrider....ad.php?t=146051
I went one time. That was in 2000. Took the Buell. Counted only 13 bikes in Dawson then. This year, at least 50 peeps from here, and a bunch from Outside. Tourist season in full swing.

The big 'dirt bike'. Above the Top of the World Hwy. Yukon Territory, Canada.



On the dome above Dawson City. Looking North down the mighty Yukon River in the middle of the night.




Heading back. I am the old phart on the left.


Yup, another thrread hijack-- unsure.gif

Edited by Tom S, 23 June 2006 - 08:43 am.


#56 dapleb

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 09:05 am

QUOTE(Tom S @ Fri 23rd Jun 2006, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yup, another thrread hijack-- unsure.gif


Yeah please DONT stop hijacking my thread with great pics smile.gif
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"

If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117

Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.

Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.

#57 Guest_Emmett_*

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 06:55 pm

QUOTE(dapleb @ Fri 23rd Jun 2006, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah please DONT stop hijacking my thread with great pics smile.gif

That Buell is the coolest looking bike............apart from the airbox.

#58 Tom S

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Posted 24 June 2006 - 01:04 pm

Forking News Headlines & pix from the far West corpse tedium outpost:
New parts still not in!
Ya-Mama! not talking.
New discoveries in TDM forking![i]
Back off the 17mm preload nut & 24mm forking cap before removing fork. Or stick it back in again.
An eye witness claimed, "She was real tight, a bit of damage was done, but not that bad. It will be ok. I should have used a 15/16" deep socket instead of the seeming to large 24mm box end I tried at first. I kept whacking, whacking, hammering on it,--, I did not have a long enough 24mm socket to give her".
( Editor's note: 15/16=.9375"=23.8125mm.)

Expected resistance from lower regions not encountered!

An official spokesman said that there seemed to be no reason to apply special measures or tools at this time, or to separate the two factions. "There seem to be six ways around this, more ways than expected, and no other action will be taken at this time, pending further developments."


Seals & bushes beaten with minor resistance. Some damage as expected![i]
The eye witness, (now a suspect), said: " I only had to whack her 4-5 times before she come off. But, I had her good & lubed up for quite a while before then, & I could see it was working almost from the start. After I got her off, well, ah, I could see she looked pretty dirty down in there. No surprise I guess"



#59 Tom S

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Posted 24 June 2006 - 02:53 pm

QUOTE(dapleb @ Fri 23rd Jun 2006, 12:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah please DONT stop hijacking my thread with great pics smile.gif

Dap, glad you liked the pix. Check that ADV site?

QUOTE(Emmett @ Fri 23rd Jun 2006, 10:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That Buell is the coolest looking bike............apart from the airbox.


Thank doods. I'd like to respond but I am skeered that Guinnes gonna whack my little n00b pee-pee fer hijacks.
http://www.carpe-tdm...?showtopic=1029

Made me wonder if I the n00b instigated that by postin all those pix 'n crap. Naaa-
Take my chances I guess. Kind of an intro it is.
Some of you guys talk funny, and I like it. Hope to stay around a bit. The net is amazing. Look where we live.
Just passing the info as best I can.

Emmett, Thanks, I like it, & think looks cool too. I must be the last guy that has the stock airbox. Nobody likes it, changes it. I'll be different. Not seen an aftermarket I liked or can really help hp. $= ?! Huh? Just looks. Seen those Beemer heads? Whats's the diff?
Is a great protector when I knock it over at zero mph. Several times. Great place to set yer beer or tools when working on it too.
Alleged to be a great still air box too. ?

#60 Tom S

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Posted 24 June 2006 - 03:18 pm

More notes in the lame book. trying to stay on topic. Basic info passed.

Edited by Tom S, 24 June 2006 - 03:33 pm.



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