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Samios Ecu Re-Flash

ECU re-flash modded ECU

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#1 howardsmed

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 10:45 am

Has anyone had experience with Samios racing ECU re-flash ?

 

the spec for the re-flash is good, they have a lot of experience with TDM, they have turbo-ed many and got 115hp rear wheel.

 

They remove the O2 sensor( Lambda sensor) and run the engine in open loop configuration, the narrow band sensor is a major cause of the low rpm surging, common to almost all fuel injected Yamaha models

 

I want to get the fuelling dead right, not for power really just for absolutely perfect throttle response.

 

I look forward to hearing if anyone has had any experience with them

 

 

Howard


Edited by howardsmed, 28 September 2019 - 10:47 am.


#2 dablik

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 01:27 pm

Yes Howard, Fixitsan has the very same and prolly talks your language to boot :)  All double dutch to me.


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#3 fixitsan

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 05:58 pm

Has anyone had experience with Samios racing ECU re-flash ?

 

the spec for the re-flash is good, they have a lot of experience with TDM, they have turbo-ed many and got 115hp rear wheel.

 

They remove the O2 sensor( Lambda sensor) and run the engine in open loop configuration, the narrow band sensor is a major cause of the low rpm surging, common to almost all fuel injected Yamaha models

 

I want to get the fuelling dead right, not for power really just for absolutely perfect throttle response.

 

I look forward to hearing if anyone has had any experience with them

 

 

Howard

 

Yes I bought a spare ECU and sent it off for a flash with Samios.

 

I would say that their claims stand up to the feel of the tuned bike. There is little noticeable top end power increase, but the bike is smoothed out quite considerably and it's very possible to balance the throttle in corners and going around roundabouts. There is no dropping out by closing the throttle slightly which you get when fuel cutoff is invoked, the map never drops the fueling to zero.

 

I had to hunt for an ECU with an '-01' suffix (the first version) because mine, with an -02 suffix could not be preprogrammed. I;ve since tried another standard ECU which I think has an -04 suffix (I could double check) and that runs my engine more smoothly.


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#4 chrisr

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 06:26 pm

Don’t think you can have a 2010 ECU flashed....they couldn’t do mine, and an earlier ecu won’t work on a 2010 model.

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#5 howardsmed

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 09:07 am

Hi Fixitsan

 

I saw your post on You tube regarding the TDM re-flash from Samios, i have emailed them and they say they can re-flash the 2011 module ( non ABS) part number 2BO-8591A-10, they cant do ABS type modules apparently though 

 

I dont want any more top end, i use the bike for riding around Europe mostly, and a bit around the UK, i didnt want it loud or unpleasant to ride just smoother at part throttle and with the same smooth road mannners as now 

 

As a test i bought a set of tatty stock 2007 mufflers and carefully opened them up, cut out the CAT, and then re-welded them back together, we dynoed the mod before and after and it picked up just under 1.3 HP all across the rev range ( without any additional fuel) so the engine was running far less than ideal 0.96-0.97 Lambda, but more importantly, the response was nearly a second better from 3000-8000rpm, it made the exhaust just a tiny bit louder, but so small its just not noticable, we then put an 8mm spike up the end of the pipe to see what that would do, it makes it again a tiny bit louder and added another 1.4 hp most of which is 6000rpm + 

 

This is very similar to what Samios have tested with aftermarket mufflers with DB killers installed, as a complete bounus Samios also have a FUCHS dyno, so the results are semi comparable   

 

I removed the airbox flap, but as expected it didnt do anything at all, a friend has a FUCHS BE261 dyno, so we check everything before and after, at full and part throttle, its very interesting sometimes  

 

i have also two long bellmouths for inside the air box ( in place of the one long and one short) and have an insulated the airbox with some 6mm thick insualtion mat used for furnaces, all this can go on in October when i put the bike way for winter

 

The million dollar question however, is ....... did the fuel economy take a dive at all after the re-flash ? ....i can get 60-63 mpg tootling around little French D roads, its jsuch a bonus sometimes knowing that you can squeeze 250 miles to tank. 

 

i assume they run the engine without a Lambda sensor ( open loop) and also disable the AIS ( which i am going to use for the breather system) ?

 

many thanks for your reply, its good finding someone who has actaully had the work done

 

Howard  



#6 fixitsan

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 03:33 pm

Hi Fixitsan

 

I saw your post on You tube regarding the TDM re-flash from Samios, i have emailed them and they say they can re-flash the 2011 module ( non ABS) part number 2BO-8591A-10, they cant do ABS type modules apparently though 

 

I dont want any more top end, i use the bike for riding around Europe mostly, and a bit around the UK, i didnt want it loud or unpleasant to ride just smoother at part throttle and with the same smooth road mannners as now 

 

As a test i bought a set of tatty stock 2007 mufflers and carefully opened them up, cut out the CAT, and then re-welded them back together, we dynoed the mod before and after and it picked up just under 1.3 HP all across the rev range ( without any additional fuel) so the engine was running far less than ideal 0.96-0.97 Lambda, but more importantly, the response was nearly a second better from 3000-8000rpm, it made the exhaust just a tiny bit louder, but so small its just not noticable, we then put an 8mm spike up the end of the pipe to see what that would do, it makes it again a tiny bit louder and added another 1.4 hp most of which is 6000rpm + 

 

This is very similar to what Samios have tested with aftermarket mufflers with DB killers installed, as a complete bounus Samios also have a FUCHS dyno, so the results are semi comparable   

 

I removed the airbox flap, but as expected it didnt do anything at all, a friend has a FUCHS BE261 dyno, so we check everything before and after, at full and part throttle, its very interesting sometimes  

 

i have also two long bellmouths for inside the air box ( in place of the one long and one short) and have an insulated the airbox with some 6mm thick insualtion mat used for furnaces, all this can go on in October when i put the bike way for winter

 

The million dollar question however, is ....... did the fuel economy take a dive at all after the re-flash ? ....i can get 60-63 mpg tootling around little French D roads, its jsuch a bonus sometimes knowing that you can squeeze 250 miles to tank. 

 

i assume they run the engine without a Lambda sensor ( open loop) and also disable the AIS ( which i am going to use for the breather system) ?

 

many thanks for your reply, its good finding someone who has actaully had the work done

 

Howard  

 

Fuel consumption increased for sure. Taking it steady, max speed 60mph on Scottish Highland B roads I can get 55mpg, but having fun it does go down. With the standard ECU I could go down to low 40's mpg when pushing the pace, the remap ECU is probably 10% less. But then that's what happens when you decide not to ride economically !.

 

The other thing which the remap does is alter the ignition timing map. The standard maps soften the engine response in 2nd and 3rd gears, but the Samios remap fixes that. Before the remap I changed the static timing +4 degrees advanced, by cutting slots in the crank sensor mounting bracket holes to move it further around the flywheel and so create a trigger signal for the ECU a bit sooner than previously. That helped with getting a faster pickup, and I think some of the jerkiness is produced as a result of large swings in ignition timing as . Samios specified that it must be returned to nomal timing because otherwise the advance in the ECU added to the static advance would cause problems (typically overheating, pinking, possibly burnt valves....all the usual)

 

There also feels to be a bit more acceleration enrichment (like the acceleration pump feeling with carbs), twisting the throttle, say 15 degrees more, usually produces a steady surge, but that might be subjective.

 

I have had no issues with the remap at all, other than the door to poorer fuel economy has been opened wider should i wish to go there, and the small increase in consumption from the extra fuel being metered out during over run (instead of being fully cut off) and the (if any) additional acceleration enrichment, as well as the permanent open loop state meaning fuel trimming at steady speed to lean out the mixture as much as possible doesn't happen any more

 

I rode the TDM last in February (I know, bad form) and at that time I fitted a standard ECU and went on a ride I've done many times , the Dukes Pass. Fuel consumption did improve over the Samios powered ride on the same route, but I don;t log things meticulously, i just remember things which are unusual or i make a point of noting for future. Having said all of that, I can still get over 200 miles to a tank on mixed roads with the Samios ECU, when riding with slower people, but taking in some motorway cruising too.


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#7 howardsmed

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 05:33 pm

Thanks very much for your detailed reply, IF Samios can do my ECU i will let them do it, but i may hgave th wrong type for them

 

just two minor things, how does the standard map soften the ignition timing in 2nd and 3rd gears ?? The TDM900 ECU doesnt have any inputs from a gear selection sensor, ( TDM 850---4TX has 2nd and 3rd sensor) so as far as the ECU is concerned its either in neutral or " in gear".

 

Are you running stock silencers, or aftermarket ??

 

many thanks for helping me decide on the ECU issue

 



#8 fixitsan

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 07:08 pm

Thanks very much for your detailed reply, IF Samios can do my ECU i will let them do it, but i may hgave th wrong type for them

 

just two minor things, how does the standard map soften the ignition timing in 2nd and 3rd gears ?? The TDM900 ECU doesnt have any inputs from a gear selection sensor, ( TDM 850---4TX has 2nd and 3rd sensor) so as far as the ECU is concerned its either in neutral or " in gear".

 

Are you running stock silencers, or aftermarket ??

 

many thanks for helping me decide on the ECU issue

 

 

 

I have Scorpion cans, they sound great. Gear position is calculated by the ECU (presumably, as long as the clutch is engaged and the clutch switch is made) , by determining the ratio of speed to RPM.

I might be wrong but I think there was limiting also in 4th, but i might have that wrong. It's to do with making the bike easier for beginners to ride. Suzuki also do the same, except they have a switch near the gear selector.

 

The mk2 850 also has it, and it too like you sa, it  has extra wires attached to the neuitral switch plate, but not the highest gears


Edited by fixitsan, 29 September 2019 - 07:10 pm.

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#9 howardsmed

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 07:21 am

yes you are right of coursde, the ECU "knows" the rpm, the speed sensor also knows the gearbox output shaft speed, one divided by the other taking into account the primary ratio, will give the gear positions.

 

neutral has one ignition map, 1-3 has another, and 4-6 another, the "gear maps" are similar, but the neutral is much more aggressive, i wonder why ?  

 

it looks like the neiutral map has the most low down ignition advance, so i might remove the speed sensor cup, which will default to the neutral map ( as the sensor wont think the bike is moving) 



#10 fixitsan

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 07:09 pm

yes you are right of coursde, the ECU "knows" the rpm, the speed sensor also knows the gearbox output shaft speed, one divided by the other taking into account the primary ratio, will give the gear positions.

 

neutral has one ignition map, 1-3 has another, and 4-6 another, the "gear maps" are similar, but the neutral is much more aggressive, i wonder why ?  

 

it looks like the neiutral map has the most low down ignition advance, so i might remove the speed sensor cup, which will default to the neutral map ( as the sensor wont think the bike is moving) 

 

 

Good idea, except perhaps the ECU uses the neutral switch for selecting the neutral map. Is it a more aggressive map for better starting/warm up. ?  I think a more advanced neutral map would be useful for reducing emissions when idling, by advancing the ignition the fuel has longer to burn, and as the engine spends such a small amount if time idling then the long term effects normally associated with very advanced timing can be ignored.

 

I have thought about making a device which intercepts the ignition timing signals, and monitor the mapping with a view to substituting retaraded modes with the same extent of advance as a non-retarded mode (EG using high gear timing maps when lower gears are selected). not too difficult to do, requires monitoring of the throttle position sensor, rpm, crank position sensor and one ignition coil signal.....and then you get into the idea of modifying fuel delivery at the same time ....so it's back to the idea of using a ready made programmable ECU.

 

I have seen programmable igntion only units here and there, maybe that is the way to go ?  Starting off might be easier to pick on designed for a twin, like a Harley or Buell, but there is an Ignitech module for the CX500 which could also work (80 degree firing angle opposed to the TDM 90 degree)

 

I just found this on ebay, it is an ignition system modifier, presumably programmed for a car at the moment but Superchips apparently still have software available, it creates an ignition map based on engine speed (like it always used to be). Quite crude but negates all map modifications of the standard ECU. https://www.ebay.co....iUAAOSwMxxdIg5h


Edited by fixitsan, 01 October 2019 - 11:09 am.

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#11 wicklamulla

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 08:42 am

interesting reading.  Howardsmed,  have you still got the TDM850 too? Sounds like you and yer buddy have all the right kit for testing these modifications.


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#12 howardsmed

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Posted 11 December 2019 - 03:06 pm

interesting reading.  Howardsmed,  have you still got the TDM850 too? Sounds like you and yer buddy have all the right kit for testing these modifications.

I sold the TDM 850 a few years back, and bought an MT09 ( I alternately buy a fast bike, then a slow bike) ran that for three years doing 24,000 miles, then sold it in August. I now have the TDM 900 and a few other bikes. None are properly fast now, so it wont be too long before I have to "feel the need for speed" again, and buy something that makes me smile

 

the 850 was really quite quick when we finished with it, I sold it to a Welsh friend who went backwards and forwards to Newport. He said the fuel economy was great ( 55mpg) but nothing comparted to the economy you can get from a 900

he ran it for over 10,000 miles, the squish clearance was at 0.030'' and it never went bang despite being revved to 9K sometimes ( the TRX forum say you cant run that little squish)

 

had a few things done to the TDM this winter, all back together now, but with an Error 4 code , weirdly it says the bike wont run with that Error code, but it runs fine !

 

Howard




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