24 replies to this topic

[Nog]

I was sceptical of things like this but read good things (on here as well) and read the stuff on their website about how it adjusts resistance according to the temperature to avoid issues that simply putting a cheap resistor can bring.

 

I bought one and popped it on the TDM alongside what the manufacturers probably don't want people to have access to, my wideband AFR sensor   .

 

I have new Black Widow cans on and they've caused slightly lean running around 3k which is one of the reasons I need to richen the mixture slightly. I ran it up to temperature and not much difference to the mixture was taking place, in fact it was still running lean around 3k revs.  The OEM O2 sensor should eventually pull the lean running down, but I'd hoped the booster plug would do more than it actually was.

 

Decided to take it off and see what's inside. It'll destroy it, but haven't seen this anywhere else so thought it important people know what they're buying here 

 

So here it is:

 

 

Yep, it's just a resistor  :138:

 

No chip, no fancy circuit, just a good old resistor potted in a big lump of rubber.

 

The back of the board is here:

 

 

You can see there's just basic tracks to link the circuit through the resistor and the 'temperature sensor' (the middle cable) goes through the main resistor in parallel. This allows the temperature probe (NTC) to add a variable resistance to the value of the resistor being used.

 

I should point out the manufacturer is therefore technically correct in that the resistance is indeed adjusted with the external temperature, however, seeing this, it's much more crude than I imagined and the cost quite shocking.  The website has a full explanation and I have to admit, having read through, it isn't making a claim that it's something it's not, however, a basic resistor and NTC can be bought for a couple of quid.

This is literally the same as popping a resistor inline with the OEM temperature sensor and then wiring a NTC temperature probe (5 for 7 quid on Amazon currently) across the resistor.

 

Now I know the cost of manufacture and subsequent mark-up will add a fair bit, but this really is a part made for a few quid and being sold for around £130.

 

For anyone that's bought one and it appears to work then that's fine, but if you asked me if it's worth buying one I'd say no chance.  I wish I'd invested in a power commander to be honest, although they are getting hard to come by now for the TDMs unfortunately, especially on the second hand market.

 

Just wanted to post to show what these are inside, not saying they don't work because they are clearly adjusting the resistance to the outside temperature.  Whether you feel it's value for money though can now be seen.

[drewpy]

 £130?
Good markup though although I recon advertising would be the main cost of this product

[leehenty]

It just fools the airbox temp sensor into thinking the air is cooler. Having the right plugs is handy though
My standard 02 runs much smoother with it on

[fixitsan]

I opted for a simple resistor which worked quite well.

 

The booster plug claims a very wide temperature range of operation which is great when you ride in a wide range of temperatures, but I only ride between about -5C minimum and no more than 15 or 20C maximum (Scottish weather !) for most of the time, so a standard resistor is workable for me.It enrichens the fuel mixture at all points.

 

Looking at how it's potted up, the potting provides a lot of thermal insulation, so even if there was a temperature sensing element in there it would have a very slow response time, maybe as long as 15 minutes

[Nog]

I opted for a simple resistor which worked quite well.

 

The booster plug claims a very wide temperature range of operation which is great when you ride in a wide range of temperatures, but I only ride between about -5C minimum and no more than 15 or 20C maximum (Scottish weather !) for most of the time, so a standard resistor is workable for me.It enrichens the fuel mixture at all points.

 

Looking at how it's potted up, the potting provides a lot of thermal insulation, so even if there was a temperature sensing element in there it would have a very slow response time, maybe as long as 15 minutes

 

There is a NTC temperature probe (the middle cable) that you run to somewhere on the bike exposed to the outside temperature so it's not affected by heat soak like the OEM could possibly be.

 

I tested the probe with my multimeter and it reacted to the warmth of my hand pretty quickly, so I think the principle is actually sound.  It's simply the price I take exception to.

 

What resistor did you use out of interest - I couldn't help ruining the resistor as I cut the potting off and need to work out the colour bands.

[fixitsan]

 

There is a NTC temperature probe (the middle cable) that you run to somewhere on the bike exposed to the outside temperature so it's not affected by heat soak like the OEM could possibly be.

 

I tested the probe with my multimeter and it reacted to the warmth of my hand pretty quickly, so I think the principle is actually sound.  It's simply the price I take exception to.

 

What resistor did you use out of interest - I couldn't help ruining the resistor as I cut the potting off and need to work out the colour bands.

Ah okay I missed the NTC wires. Makes more sense now.

My messages about the resistor are in the forum messages somewhere here, but off the top of my head it might have been around 20-30k, and I was going to bridge it with an NTC but didn't bother once I realised that the difference in fueling for a 15 or 20 degree range  of temperature that i use the bike for, was small.

 

 

Any resistor over about 10k will start to enrichen the mixture

 

 

I note on Boosterplug's website this statement of a 'problem'

 

"The problem using a serial resistor is that the amount of added mixture will vary a lot with changes in ambient temperature, and this is certainly not what we want."

 

I agree, a constant level or enrichment is a better idea, but at no time is a simple resistor ever 'bad' or dangerous, it's just not quite as refined that's all, and the engine smoothness will remain the same (pretty much) in both cases.

 

I felt a better respose, which made the bike feel more lively, was to advance the ignition timing about 4 degrees. This was a common mod on early carb bikes, which takes into account that bikes imported to the UK are set up for lower 92RON fuel, but the lowest quality we can buy is the better 95RON. As fuel quality goes down ignition timing has to be more retarded, so as we don't get less than 95RON and can get 99RON a 4 degree advance is pretty safe. I went about that by 'dremelling' out the mounting holes of the flywheel pickup sensor into slots a couple of mm long.

 

 

And then finally i went for a remap from Samios. There is no more ultimate power from the remap, but two benefits I felt made it worth it was the removal of any torque limiting in lower gears, which on 850's  is achieved with the gear selector switch, on 900's it's hardcoded into the ECU. Easy to fix on an 850, but reprogramming is needed for the 900.

 

The best part of the remap for me though was the removal of fuel cutting when decelerating. Fuel cutting saves a bit of fuel when you're slowing down, which wasn't possible with carbs. When carbs still meter out a small amount of fuel on deceleration you get a smooth transition between on and off throttle positions. With the remapped ECU it makes it possible to keep the throttle gently active around roundabouts and so on. I previously felt the throttle was 'choppy' when trying to gently control speed at low revs. After the remap, the throttle became smooth instead and it feels almost like riding a a bike with carbs.

 

I do use more fuel but I don't think it's even noticeable and definitely not noticeable when I'm riding in a style where I'm 'making progress'.

 

I spent a bit of time trying to work out what a retrofit device would need to do in order to emulate the anti fuel cutting on a standard bike. I've got a few ideas. I think it could be done just by using 4 wires and a control box. I haven't made a prototype but maybe I should have a go at it, I've hooked up  an oscilloscope so have plenty of data, it's just a matter of reliably emulating a fuel injector firing signal after the ECU has cut it, and the timing of it doesn't need to be accurate to even 5 degrees of engine rotation so it's probably something which could be done.

 

If I made one it would probably work for most other injected bikes, and I could make and sell a £130 'box of tricks' too !

Edited by fixitsan, 21 December 2023 - 08:38 am.

[Favs]

Tried 1 on my 9er and it deffo ran better low end. However, the fuel economy reduction negates the low speed gain. My booster is hung up in the shed. A complete waste of cash IMHO.

[Tor]

And then finally i went for a remap from Samios. There is no more ultimate power from the remap, but two benefits I felt made it worth it was the removal of any torque limiting in lower gears, which on 850's  is achieved with the gear selector switch, on 900's it's hardcoded into the ECU. Easy to fix on an 850, but reprogramming is needed for the 900.

 

The best part of the remap for me though was the removal of fuel cutting when decelerating. 

 

I'm moderately happy with my BoosterPlug, but as I travel to Athens a lot I'm considering getting an early ECU for Samios to remap. But I'm actually going to ask them to leave the fuel cut-off in place, as I dislike popping and enjoy the growly exhaust note while decelerating as well as the engine braking effect. I also want the torque limiting gone. The bike still hunts a little around 30-40 mph level, and consumption has gone up by a bit so rather than fiddle with CO settings in the dash I'm thinking remap. Did you notice any other improvements beyond the highlights mentioned?

 

Any thoughts on remapping versus PowerCommander setups?

Edited by Tor, 08 January 2024 - 03:17 pm.

[fixitsan]

 

I'm moderately happy with my BoosterPlug, but as I travel to Athens a lot I'm considering getting an early ECU for Samios to remap. But I'm actually going to ask them to leave the fuel cut-off in place, as I dislike popping and enjoy the growly exhaust note while decelerating as well as the engine braking effect. I also want the torque limiting gone. The bike still hunts a little around 30-40 mph level, and consumption has gone up by a bit so rather than fiddle with CO settings in the dash I'm thinking remap. Did you notice any other improvements beyond the highlights mentioned?

 

Any thoughts on remapping versus PowerCommander setups?

 

For me it felt much easier to ride without the fuel cutoff, all lurching on and off throttle stopped. Maybe my riding ?

 

Coxylad, another member here gave the Samios ECU a try on his bike and he didn't note much difference, particularly no more outright power, but did feel the anti-fuel cutoff smoothed things out the same as me.

 

 

I've started writing the code for a universal discrete anti-cutoff module to retrofit to other bikes, to see if it makes an improvement in their low speed behaviour. It will only be operable on deceleration between 3500 - 1500 rpm, with 3 connecting wires to the bike, none of which interact with the ECU or any existing engine sensor (so there's no risk of frying anything).

 

I haven't tried a power commander for a bike, but used a couple for cars so know how it works.

 

What I could do with the anti-cutoff device is make a +5% mode, like a boost mode, to lengthen the injector pulses the same as what a power commander does. It isn't a specific goal, but again, it could be used to add more fuel during acceleration, above, say 4500rpm, and it's possible to make it a user adjustable parameter.

 

I could also add a consumption meter too. But I need to get the basic function working properly first !

Edited by fixitsan, 09 January 2024 - 10:59 am.

[Catteeclan]

I felt more midrange power when we fitted that ECU to mine. Loud pipes and no top on the air box on it either.. Seem to remember it wheel spinning over a bridge though I was giving it some.  
But the lack of fuel cutting def improved with the jerky on/off throttle. Would have loved a longer go in dry weather.

[fixitsan]

I felt more midrange power when we fitted that ECU to mine. Loud pipes and no top on the air box on it either.. Seem to remember it wheel spinning over a bridge though I was giving it some.  
But the lack of fuel cutting def improved with the jerky on/off throttle. Would have loved a longer go in dry weather.

Yes of course, I remember bringing it with me when I was working down there. Time flies !

 

I might put the original ECU back on and try doing some bum-dyno comparisons.

[Nog]

I have since ordered an EJK - electronic jet kit, which is like a cruder version of a power commander.

 

I'll report back on how it is.

 

It essentially wires into the injectors and receives the pulse signals and adapts if needed.  It operates in low, mid and high rpm ranges, which is why they call it a 'jet kit' as I guess the idea is like playing with your idle jet, needle height and main jets on carbs.

 

In principle it looks promising and is a lot lot cheaper than a new power commander, but the proof is in the eating, so as mentioned will report back when it gets here - have I wasted another load of cash?

[fixitsan]

 have I wasted another load of cash?

 

If you post the results here and they're of use to others, it's not a waste
 

[thong]

I have since ordered an EJK - electronic jet kit, which is like a cruder version of a power commander.

 

I'll report back on how it is.

 

It essentially wires into the injectors and receives the pulse signals and adapts if needed.  It operates in low, mid and high rpm ranges, which is why they call it a 'jet kit' as I guess the idea is like playing with your idle jet, needle height and main jets on carbs.

 

In principle it looks promising and is a lot lot cheaper than a new power commander, but the proof is in the eating, so as mentioned will report back when it gets here - have I wasted another load of cash?

 

I use one also, works well

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[fixitsan]

I just came across one of these, a programmable variable resistor, with a temperature compensation table for temps between -40 to 100 Celsius.

It could possibly do a much better job than a booster plug !

 

https://www.adafruit.com/product/4570

[Nog]

I just came across one of these, a programmable variable resistor, with a temperature compensation table for temps between -40 to 100 Celsius.

It could possibly do a much better job than a booster plug !

 

https://www.adafruit.com/product/4570

 

Blimey, that's a great price - would require a little homework on the resistances/temperature but guessing that wouldn't be difficult.

 

Certainly better than that booster plug in terms of control and price 

 

The more I've looked into it I think controlling the mixture through the O2 sensor is quite a crude method - ok for a general richening of the whole mixture but nothing more, so I think the PC/Remap is the way to go for anything needing more.

 

The EJK hasn't arrived yet, I think it comes from the US so got to wait for it to arrive at the seller - if I'd known I would have looked to buy direct but no big deal, the price looks no different.

Edited by Nog, 18 January 2024 - 11:51 am.

[Snowbird]

You still need a controller for that module as it's just a digipot with i2c interface, controller could be made very small and cheap using pickaxe with ds18b20 digital temp sensor and programmed to suit (for clever folk a bare pic would be cheaper but I'm not clever),the digipot itself would be cheaper off board and on the same board as the pic.

Edited by Snowbird, 18 January 2024 - 11:54 am.

[fixitsan]

 

Blimey, that's a great price - would require a little homework on the resistances/temperature but guessing that wouldn't be difficult.

 

Certainly better than that booster plug in terms of control and price 

 

The more I've looked into it I think controlling the mixture through the O2 sensor is quite a crude method - ok for a general richening of the whole mixture but nothing more, so I think the PC/Remap is the way to go for anything needing more.

 

The EJK hasn't arrived yet, I think it comes from the US so got to wait for it to arrive at the seller - if I'd known I would have looked to buy direct but no big deal, the price looks no different.

 

Yeah the O2 sensor is a little more complicated I think, as some require an AC signal processor, rather than just direct resistance

[fixitsan]

You still need a controller for that module as it's just a digipot with i2c interface, controller could be made very small and cheap using pickaxe with ds18b20 digital temp sensor and programmed to suit (for clever folk a bare pic would be cheaper but I'm not clever),the digipot itself would be cheaper off board and on the same board as the pic.

It's a digipot + I2C + temperature sensor.

The resistance/temperature curve is stored in NVM

 

Once programmed it can be used as a standalone device, and even it's startup setting can be configured. It then replaces the thermistor (3mA max current), and just needs a stabilised DC supply

 

I think the only homework required is to measure the resistance of the original air intake thermistor across it's temperature range, program the DS1841 to match it in terms of the temperature/resistance curve, and use the second NVram LUT to add the required 5% or whatever extra fuel across the temperature range.

 

The manufacturer's datasheet calls it a temperature controlled resistor https://www.analog.c...eets/DS1841.pdf

 

A potential problem is that one side of the wiper track is ground referenced, but I'm not sure if thats also the case for the thermistor fitted to the air intake, but if it is, it ought to be a straight swap. Program once, and that's that

Edited by fixitsan, 18 January 2024 - 03:17 pm.

[fixitsan]

I just came across one of these, a programmable variable resistor, with a temperature compensation table for temps between -40 to 100 Celsius.

It could possibly do a much better job than a booster plug !

 

https://www.adafruit.com/product/4570

 

Proof of the pudding, I've ordered one to play with.

 

I don't think the 3.6k - 22k range is broad enough so it probably needs a fixed resistor in series with it too

Edited by fixitsan, 18 January 2024 - 05:43 pm.