56 replies to this topic

[Chris TDM]

Ok i need some help here, I am posting this then gonna have a search in the forum for ideas, Kinda need to sort this quickly as the tdm is my only transport for my 60 mile round trip to work!

I went to start my bike in the cold weather and it was a arse to get started, took a while to fire up, backfiring, running on one then two pots. but once it was warm its fine.

Until yesterday, it wouldn't start, it just keeps turning and turning until flat, So i chucked the battery booster onto it, and pulled the plugs they are wet with fuel and you can smell it over the exhaust. earth the plugs to the head pot 1 ( the left hand one as you sit on the bike) sparks once when you first turn the bike over then fails to spark again, pot 2 does not spark at all. the bike turns over nice and quickly. So I am thinking the coils might be dead, I know they can be tested but you need to test them on ohms 1X scale and my multimeter is in Ohms 200, 2k, 20k, 200k, 2M, 20M, 200M So i am not sure if i can test them (yes i need to learn how to use it lol)

I have a 99 4TX model (electric fuel pump, fuel gauge)

thanks

chris

[dapleb]

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Hello.

When did ya last check yer leads? Sparky in the darky?

[Chris TDM]

Well I now have sparky I forgot that my tdm wont fire up with the side stand down

Sooooo, Now i know I have sparks, I that look nice and blue, I can smell a little fuel, it did go pop!!! and its getting air! but still no running.

I checked a taped the HT leads 2 months ago, and changed the spark-plugs at the same time.

Chris

[Studley Ramrod]

Is yer battery fully charged ?

Should start really if you have a da sparks and fuel That said, it might have flooded again.

Are you giving the fuel pump time to prime before you hit the starter ?

EDIT: I think 2K is the ohm x 1 scale on ya meter.

Edited by Studley Ramrod, 15 December 2010 - 02:40 pm.

[Chris TDM]

Well I just flattened the jump start pack!!!!! I put some easy start down her hoping that might give her some life, you can hear it trying to fire but nothing happens.

The fuel pump is primed, and if I disconnect the fuel line it pumps it out. Going to wait until the jump-start pack is charged again, any luck that'll let all the fuel clear/plugs dry. Oddly I cant smell much if any fuel coming over the exhaust.

[Studley Ramrod]

Not much smell of fuel.....................

Last time I came across a very similar problem as yours, it wasn't good news

Moose's head gasket had blown, it was takin' about 20-30 mins of starting before it finally kicked into life.

Apologies for the scaremongerin' and I hope I'm wrong in your case, but might be worth looking into if it won't start of a booster.

Go steady with the booster as you might burn the starter motor out.

[dmmsta]

Not knowing much about the 850's, but having had all the fun & games of a non-starting 9er last Xmas, have you looked at the HT leads?

I ended up replacing mine with Silicone jobbies and all was happy.

I know the HT thing is very much a 9er issue, but might be worth a look (if you haven't already).

[Favs]

Hi Chris
A longer shot but...
I've a 4tx 99 build, to which I, through my own fault, introduced water into the fuel system - gives exactly the same symptoms ie sparks but no fuel/fuel smell cos the carbs wont pull a drop of water through and therefore no fuel either. The drain screws on the carbs are a blessing!!!!
Favs.

[wicklamulla]

put her onna paddock stand or prop her bolt uproight, put soidestand in d'up position.....now try starting her.

[Gio]

Hi,

I had a similar problem last weekend with the 900 - bike had not been used in about 3 weeks but was in a garage and battery connected to the Optimate. Went to start it on Saturday morning and it refused to start. I could hear the fuel pump on start up and there was fuel in the tank so could not really figure out hat was happening.

One thing came to mind from a basic mechanics course I did was the scenario of having water in the float bowls which would prevent the bike from starting. I left it and called the recovery people out in the afternoon.

The diagnosis was that the engine had flooded and in trying to start the bike a portable battery pack was drained and the recovery guy hooked the bike up to the van. After several minutes the bike fired into life but I also managed to drain the battery on the bike! Bike then stalled when I was about to take it out for a spin. Hooked back up to the Optimate it fired up the next day.

Hope this helps.

Gio

[Chris TDM]

Well I stuck her up right, I was gonna drain the floats but i can get to the aresing screw, I put a little fuel down the carbs into the cylinders, cranked her for 2 or 3 30 secs try's, then boom one back fire out the carbs and exhaust, but still no runny, or eye brows

Also found the 3 poll connector from the alternator has melted Now until I source a new connector I'll be on using a screw connector block? also anyone know what it needs to be rated to?

[Chris TDM]

right time to start to cover my self here, anyone got the NGK part number for the HT caps? also a the size of the ht leads?

Also a little bit of rambling,

I don't have the air box on at the moment, When I try to start the bike and then stop i can see a mist coming up from the cylinders, I take it this is the Fuel air mix? I have had it back fire which meant i must of been getting spark/fuel/air even for a moment?

So If i am right by saying the mist is fuel air, then that meens i'm not getting a spark/correct spark?

I've checked the coils they are fine, only think i have taken off since it last worked is the spark plugs and put new ones in. I am getting a spark when holding the spark plug next to the block.

Is it possible that:

1) the spark it to week to ignite the fuel/air mix?
2) i'm and getting to much fuel in and its flooding the the cylinders?

also I drained the float bowls and there was a little bit of dirt in them, could that cause a problem?

Edited by Chris TDM, 16 December 2010 - 01:58 pm.

[apw99]

Chris - do you keep the bike outdoors? Is it covered? Has it been very cold over your way? Did you take the tank off and check for any arcing along the leads/coils? best to do this in the dark. Any arcing will be enough to weaken the spark and it may not be enough to fire up. Did you try spraying the coils/leads with water-displacer, even WD40 if you are stuck.
It would be strange for both coils to suddenly decide to give up.
Probably a daft question but there is poper coolant in the bike and not just water - in case the cold has cracked the head?

What voltage is the battery running with the ignition turned ON ?

Can't think of much else...APW

[wicklamulla]

Well I stuck her up right, I was gonna drain the floats but i can get to the aresing screw, I put a little fuel down the carbs into the cylinders, cranked her for 2 or 3 30 secs try's, then boom one back fire out the carbs and exhaust, but still no runny, or eye brows

Also found the 3 poll connector from the alternator has melted Now until I source a new connector I'll be on using a screw connector block? also anyone know what it needs to be rated to?

that the opaque coloured one that plugs into the starter relay ? i have seen them melted b4. they corrode loike the starter relay does and this leads to a heat build up when cranking over.

[Studley Ramrod]

I think he's referring to the block connector with the three white wires, comes up from the alternator and joins up to the loom, Wicky. I tink it then reappears out the loom and connects to the reg/rec, along with a black wire and a red wire.

I wonder what could cause that to burn out ?

[Chris TDM]

Ya that's the one Studley.

Well I've ordered a 12mm adaptor for my compression tester, should be here Tuesday, also have a new starter relay on order
(never been changed in 35000miles) so with any luck Tuesday next week I should be a little closer to a answer.

[wicklamulla]

Good luck.

[Readmarx]

When I've had those symptoms it's been down to a battery that's fucked. If you've replaced the HT's and plugs and you're getting lots of fuel through to the cans you've enough battery to spin the crank and get a weak spark, but not enough of a spark under compression. How does the bike start if you put a booster on it or jump lead it? If it'll spin freely and then fire it's usually the battery IMHO (unless I've missed something here)

Edited by Readmarx, 17 December 2010 - 11:50 pm.

[apw99]

Chris - how did you get on? I'm curious what your problem was (is )
APW

[Chris TDM]

Not had a chance to touch it yet, only got the parts I ordered, today, so I will report back at the weekend,