35 replies to this topic

[stu]

Thanks for all the replies lads (with the exception of Stu of course )

So I suppose the natural progression of this topic is how effective is the ABS? I have it on the car and it is brilliant, although I still find it hard to plant the brakes with the reassurance that the ABS will kick in if needed. But how does the ABS feel on a bike when there is perhaps some lean involved as well? My 4TX has only 10k miles up so I have many moons left in it but I think the next steed will be an ABS model. Has anyone any pearls on ABS?
Cheer again,
APW

On a curve, try to get the bike as upright as possible, and nail the brakes then. ABS on a car is intended to allow you to maintain steering control and avoid the obstruction; on a bike you are better off aiming to scrub off as much speed as possible.

This may be of interest:



so may this

[harvey krumpet]

Touching the brakes on a wet corner is probably not the way to go, abs or not. I can get wary (wrote timid but made me look to much like a girl) in the wet on bends, I suspect anybody who doesn't is a nutter. I tend to accelerate on the straight more than I would in relaxed dry riding to gain a little distance on the car behind. This allows me the mental comfort to back off and tip toe around the corner if I feel I need to without the pressure of a car up my rear. I try to never get directly in line with the vehicle ahead, so I can flick away easy if it breaks hard. Its boring to say, but only a fool breaks the two second rule (well, in the wet anyhow, oops sorry, no pun intended)

Good point, made me think about what I do. On wet roads I brake earlier & enter bends slower for maximum visibility & "just in case" scenarios but I get a positive throttle earlier with less lean. I feel a lot more secure cornering with a bit of throttle on & if the back doe's wriggle a bit then that is a good indication of how slippy it really is without the brown trou moment from the front.

[Readmarx]

Personally, I think it's the "feel" of the machine under you. I've ridden on very worn front tyres (through being tight) in the wet and never had a moment with them at all. I've ridden with new fronts and have them lock up - in the dry. I'd agree with posts above about gaining confidence in yourself and trusting the machine/tyres by practicing somewhere. Wherever you practice won't have the same surface, grip, hazards and visibility when you need it on the road (I'm obliged to mention that by the HSE). Wherever you practice I'd also introduce turning and cornering to feel the machine moving in the wet and trusting that you can lean a bike when "instinct" says to keep it upright. Knowing that you can brake hard in the wet and move your line can give you the confidence not to "target fixate" and help you keep control. Having said all that I fell off my Triumph yesterday when I left the sidestand up...

[drumwrecker]

Riding, especially in the wet is about feel.
Just think how slippy everything feels at the start of a wet ride and how confident you feel at the end of it.
At the beginning and end of the ride means home territiry so you know the roads well but they feel so different. I know warm tyres has something to do with it but surely not all all of it.

[Readmarx]

Does anyone know the stopping distance of a jetski v's a TDM at 60mph/knots?

[harvey krumpet]

Riding, especially in the wet is about feel.
Just think how slippy everything feels at the start of a wet ride and how confident you feel at the end of it.
At the beginning and end of the ride means home territiry so you know the roads well but they feel so different. I know warm tyres has something to do with it but surely not all all of it.

I wear out the sole of my right boot far quicker than the left as I got into the habit as a noob rider of dragging my boot to test the road surface if I was unsure of how much grip I had. Especially when it's hard to see if the road is damp or dry or as mentioned while negotiating a roundabout or somewhere equally slippy. Expensive on footwear but remarkably good feed back. I will occasionally dab the back brake to see how much grip I have too.

I reckon a lot of what we "feel" is in the head, the bike may feel less planted or even a bit skittery but if it's not sliding then it must be gripping. As you say, when you head off in bad weather it's usually with a sense of foreboding & stiffness but once you start to concentrate on your riding the only time the bike feels different is when you start to think about the conditions, say that moment when you feel your traveling a tad quick for a corner or having to turn over painted chevrons (try those with your boot!) that thought & your involuntary physical reaction create a feeling of vagueness from the bike, nothing has changed apart from your input.
I don't believe we are sensitive enough on our softly sprung bikes to notice the nuances of grip or lack of from the tires in the wet, a slide yes but vagueness? No, not unless your buttocks are clenched to the top mount of the shock, a position & tension I only reserve for black ice.

[drumwrecker]

I know I have said this before but it is worth repeating.
Waggle your elbows to relax your grip on the bars.
If the bike gets out of shape with a light grip the bike will usually correct itself.
If your grip is tight you fight the bike and will stand a good chance of ending up on your arse.
Its one of the best tip I have had passed on to me.

[harvey krumpet]

I know I have said this before but it is worth repeating.
Waggle your elbows to relax your grip on the bars.
If the bike gets out of shape with a light grip the bike will usually correct itself.
If your grip is tight you fight the bike and will stand a good chance of ending up on your arse.
Its one of the best tip I have had passed on to me.

Agreed, it's also one of the hardest things to do when you feel the bike move. Another skill which requires us to do the opposite of what happens instinctively.
I've been riding on & off road for more than 3 decades & I still have to force mind over matter when I'm required to react quickly to something. I consciously have to avoid object (scenery!) fixation & look for the gap, emergency braking requires me to think about front & rear grip, where I'm headed, anticipating a lock up, suspension loading etc, rear tire letting go poses the question to gas or not too gas, Phew! The hardest part is still trying to stay relaxed enough to put the correct input into the bike during those fractions of a second when I need to maintain control rather than freeze rigid or over react.
I must admit that in recent years I have been amazed at the ability of modern bikes & rubber, the TDM particularly (I'm biased). Wide bars, compliant, forgiving suspension, excellent balance, upright riding position, flickability & torque add up to a lot of control when required.

[pete7]

........... relax your grip on the bars.
If the bike gets out of shape with a light grip the bike will usually correct itself.
.............
Its one of the best tip I have had passed on to me.

agreed totally!

...and of course it also applies to any vehicle in snow/ice conditions. The 'light touch' should be taught to everyone learning to drive a car. We may have had a few less in ditches over the last few days

P

[drumwrecker]

Agreed, it's also one of the hardest things to do when you feel the bike move. Another skill which requires us to do the opposite of what happens instinctively.
I've been riding on & off road for more than 3 decades & I still have to force mind over matter when I'm required to react quickly to something. I consciously have to avoid object (scenery!) fixation & look for the gap, emergency braking requires me to think about front & rear grip, where I'm headed, anticipating a lock up, suspension loading etc, rear tire letting go poses the question to gas or not too gas, Phew! The hardest part is still trying to stay relaxed enough to put the correct input into the bike during those fractions of a second when I need to maintain control rather than freeze rigid or over react.
I must admit that in recent years I have been amazed at the ability of modern bikes & rubber, the TDM particularly (I'm biased). Wide bars, compliant, forgiving suspension, excellent balance, upright riding position, flickability & torque add up to a lot of control when required.

Have you been sitting on my pillion? You just described a typical ride of mine.
At least we are thinking about what we are doing.
My mate talks to himself about the ride he is on, he says it helps him concentrate although the more he concentrates the faster he goes. Is that called "being in the zone"?

[harvey krumpet]

Have you been sitting on my pillion? You just described a typical ride of mine.
At least we are thinking about what we are doing.
My mate talks to himself about the ride he is on, he says it helps him concentrate although the more he concentrates the faster he goes. Is that called "being in the zone"?

Some folk I know relate the "Zone" to speed. I tend to think more of pace & flow when it all comes together, maintaining a good pace, smooth & quick with good observation & anticipation. Being quick is a by product of everything else coming together not the aim.
I'm always suprised to find that i ride at the same pace in the rain as I generally do in the dry. Like all of us I focus that little bit harder to give myself a bigger safety margin & concentrate on being really smooth, it does not feel quick but distance times & average road speed always work out the same. A great pleasure in riding a bike for me is that I focus on what I'm doing 100%, no idle thoughts or distractions whatever the weather. This also implies I'm not particularly quick in the dry which is true. Safety first, I like getting home in one piece.

[drumwrecker]

Whether it is called being in the zone, getting your head down, stitching a line or just plain enjoying it those rides are always memerable but there are also the times I go out and I feel like an accident waiting for somewhere to happen. Its all about acknowledging the state of mind you are in and dealing with it and making sure of arriving home safetly. We never stop learning/

[celticbiker]

I've been out before now and overfilled the tank, dropped my keys and locked my gloves in the top box and spent 10 minutes looking for them.
On occasions like that I've just gone straight back home ( even phoned in sick on a work day ) cos if I can't fill a tank safely I sure as hell can't trust myself on the road.

[stu]

On occasions like that I've just gone straight back home

Yep, did that once myself, something just didn't feel right.

[drumwrecker]

Nothing like that gut feeling to tell you what to do even if its against all logic.

[harvey krumpet]

I've been out before now and overfilled the tank, dropped my keys and locked my gloves in the top box and spent 10 minutes looking for them.
On occasions like that I've just gone straight back home ( even phoned in sick on a work day ) cos if I can't fill a tank safely I sure as hell can't trust myself on the road.

+2 I had to ride over to a friends place, about 90km's a while ago & I felt retchit. Felt like the bike was held together with meccano & my tires covered with oil. After a good lunch & a few cups of tea I was tickety boo again & had a fantastic ride home, like night & day. My car was poorly so I had to use the bike & it felt totally wrong.