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17" Front Wheel On The Abs Model


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#1 jpor

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 12:34 pm

Hi All,

 

So I started on this conversion yesterday. I've gone to swap out my 18" stock front wheel with ABS hub sensor for a 17" wheel. The wheel in question is a 1998 R1, it says on it 4XV and part number as far as I can make out is J17XMT350 DCT or J17XMY350 DCT lettering is a bit odd.

 

The 18" looked like it just had the one spacer and the ABS hub. I've tried a few variations on a theme with this

 

1) spacer no hub (big gap)

https://photos.app.g...GkHTzhVb9bokCK8

https://photos.app.g...2weR5xg4LepShr6

 

2) hub no spacer (littler gap, hub doesn't sit right)

 

3) hub and spacer (doesn't quite fit)

 

I can't imagine yamaha would have made the fork spacing any different for abs and non-abs models, so I'm not too sure what I'm getting wrong here. What do non abs models have where abs has that insertable hub with the sensor?

 

Things all a bit up in the air right now and was super keen to have it done this weekend

https://photos.app.g...F253ejkW2FCokJ8

Thanks in advance

Jacob



#2 jpor

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 12:59 pm

Looking at this listing, the axle appears to have two sets of spacers (I'm 90% sure mine only had the one), with the abs hub acting as the  other. While the seller has listed as an ABS model perhaps it is non ABS, and what I should have done was purchase a non-abs axle and spacer combo in anticipation of the swap

 

https://www.ebay.co....cYWev:rk:3:pf:0



#3 dablik

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 03:59 pm

I imagine your problem is defo related to abs fittings as normally this wheel is a straight swop on a non-abs 900, and it's lurverly..


Bigred mk1 R1 Calipers- Braided lines- Givi wing rack-Crash bungs- Hi vis bullets-PR2's- and a hoot to ride.

Quad 900 Silver Laser duo tech pipes-Scott oiler-Engine crash bars- Radiator mounted see me ring LED's-Datatool system 3 alarm -Centre stand- Extender fender-Renthal bars-Handle bar risers-Mirror extenders-BMW GS Handgaurds-Acumen uprated horn & Nautilus-Stainless steel Radiator guard-Givi wing rack-OEM screen-Yammy touring screen-MRA Vario-MRA Double bubble cut down for fast as fk riding-Tiger screen-Tank protector-Stomp grip panels-Optimate lead   Gone to Heaven  :sorry: 

 

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#4 JBX

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 05:44 pm

Looking at this listing, the axle appears to have two sets of spacers (I'm 90% sure mine only had the one), with the abs hub acting as the  other. While the seller has listed as an ABS model perhaps it is non ABS, and what I should have done was purchase a non-abs axle and spacer combo in anticipation of the swap

 

https://www.ebay.co....cYWev:rk:3:pf:0

 

This is a non-ABS axle, there is no lhs spacer on the ABS one.

ABS axle part # is 4XV-25181-10.

 

Btw on the picture, the spacers are reverted.


Edited by JBX, 03 March 2019 - 05:50 pm.

top_640.png

 

 


#5 jpor

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 06:10 pm

Thank you both, I had a feeling that must be my issue. I've placed a bid on it hopefully I can get it delivered for £25

 

Was so excited to experience this as well! Old wheel back on for now. Beaten until next weekend I think



#6 ramo

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 08:45 pm

it looks to me that the ABS uses 1 spacing collar and the ABS sensor housing acts as the other,

 

but also the bearing spacer tube that goes through the centre of the wheel is a different part number

 

Bearing spacer tube part No's 

 

ABS - 4XV-25181-10.

 

NON ABS - 4XV251170000

 

The front axle has the same part No on both ABS  and non ABS 4XV251811000, as does the collar spacers (903872201600) so don't buy the axle in the ebay link, if that's what you were intending to do 

 

  

#7 JBX

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 10:44 pm

This is a bit confusing, but actually both ABS & non-ABS TDM900 share the same front wheel axle part.

 

From 2002 to 2006 : 4XV-25181-00

From 2007 to 2010 : 4XV-25181-10

 

I guess the only difference is color change, parts like some engine parts follow the same rule.

Early axles are black, late ones are silver.


top_640.png

 

 


#8 steves100uk

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 05:49 am

Is it actually possible to do the 17" wheel modification. As surely it will be causing all sorts of issues when brakeing as the abs will think see the wheel rpm different to what it should be. Just wondering.
Steve

#9 ramo

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 06:42 am

How does the ABS part attach to the wheel?



#10 JBX

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 06:58 am

The 98' R1 wheel does not have any kind of ABS ability : no ABS sensor compatable as the hub is identical to the non-ABS 9er hub.


Edited by JBX, 04 March 2019 - 07:34 am.

top_640.png

 

 


#11 Coxylaad

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 03:10 pm

Is it actually possible to do the 17" wheel modification. As surely it will be causing all sorts of issues when brakeing as the abs will think see the wheel rpm different to what it should be. Just wondering.
Steve

 

I thought that exact thing. I suppose it depends on whether the abs module is smart enough to self calibrate under normal conditions. 



#12 fixitsan

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 03:29 pm

I think the common thing to do is disconnect the ABS controller (I believe it 'fails safe') and revert to normal braking, most likely with a parmanent (and MOT failure) ABS light on...for the MOT recconect everything and fit the 18" wheel back on.

 

I think a dig around in the MOT handbook will reveal if the ABS has to be fitted if it left the factory with it, I suspect it does need to be there


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#13 dablik

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 05:11 pm

 

 

I think a dig around in the MOT handbook will reveal if the ABS has to be fitted if it left the factory with it, I suspect it does need to be there

 

Not to sure about that Chris, many a BMW rider has bunged the abs units from their bikes and i've not heard mention of mot failure, unless newer regs determine otherwise of course !


Bigred mk1 R1 Calipers- Braided lines- Givi wing rack-Crash bungs- Hi vis bullets-PR2's- and a hoot to ride.

Quad 900 Silver Laser duo tech pipes-Scott oiler-Engine crash bars- Radiator mounted see me ring LED's-Datatool system 3 alarm -Centre stand- Extender fender-Renthal bars-Handle bar risers-Mirror extenders-BMW GS Handgaurds-Acumen uprated horn & Nautilus-Stainless steel Radiator guard-Givi wing rack-OEM screen-Yammy touring screen-MRA Vario-MRA Double bubble cut down for fast as fk riding-Tiger screen-Tank protector-Stomp grip panels-Optimate lead   Gone to Heaven  :sorry: 

 

1991 MK1 in need of some TLC watch this space   :) Sorted and on the Road Mick  :P  :P it's the bike that Jack built  ;) Gone to Heaven  :wub: 

 


#14 ramo

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 05:15 pm

Dont think its worth the hassle,

 

yes you could fit the 4XV wheel with 2 spacers, and leave the ABS sensor and mount off, and swap back for the MOT,

 

ABS wouldn't work with the 4XV wheel, me  I'd leave this one standard



#15 fixitsan

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 06:50 pm

 

Not to sure about that Chris, many a BMW rider has bunged the abs units from their bikes and i've not heard mention of mot failure, unless newer regs determine otherwise of course !

 

 

Yes I think you're right, I wrote that off the top of my head, knowing it's a fail for cars, but there was a motorcycle MOT tester's manual update in September last year...It still doesn't mention ABS specifically, if in doubt black tape on the ABS light, or removing the bulb, but even that might be overkill. A quick phonecall to your preferred tester would sort it

 

I know I used to run an FJ1200 with disabled ABS and it was no issue, but that was when you could disable warning lights....now all warning lights need to come on and then extinguish, just to prove the bulb and a lack of faults (for cars at least)


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#16 Kenyun

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 08:39 pm

If you disconnect both front and rear ABS sensors from each wheel [and hide the wiring out of sight] the ABS light will not illuminate but the engine management light will, and error code 42 will show on the speedo panel until the bike starts moving.



#17 steve27bha

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 09:02 pm

How does the ABS part attach to the wheel?

It doesn't.

 

There are cast-in "bumps" inside the hub, so the ABS "ring" is integral with the wheel, not a separate bolt-on item as on most.

Ditto at the back.

 

You can see a representation of the bumps inside the hub on the 900A part fiche: https://www.ajsutton...ont-wheel?uID=0

 

Compare to the non-ABS: https://www.ajsutton...ont-wheel?uID=0


Edited by steve27bha, 04 March 2019 - 09:07 pm.

TDM900A 2008/09 in use, with     gallery_179098_391_770.jpg sml_gallery_179098_391_1145.jpg  gallery_179098_391_1206.jpg gallery_179098_391_253.jpg gallery_179098_391_82.jpg gallery_179098_391_725.gif gallery_179098_391_797.jpg gallery_179098_391_1396.jpg gallery_179098_391_501.jpg gallery_179098_391_316.jpg  gallery_179098_391_1768.jpg gallery_179098_391_106.jpggallery_179098_391_2170.jpg gallery_179098_391_1373.jpg

 

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#18 ramo

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 09:26 pm

Yea I did see those pics when I was looking for part numbers, and noticed the difference,

 

that there were no bolts/screws in the pic ABS wheel, I did wonder, not seen a ABS with a ring before, 

 

to be  honest never looked, owned 3 bikes with ABS they all had bolt on rings

 

cheers for that steve :good:



#19 jpor

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 12:45 pm

Sorry, I missed all these messages looks like I forgot to turn notifications on again. Many thanks all for chiming in 

 

The result for all those interested and those with ABS models wondering if the same is possible:

 

1. I bought the axle in the link (for those from the future it was a TDM 900 front wheel axle, listed for the ABS model but actually from a non-ABS). The difference between the two is not the axle but the spacers (non-ABS model has two). On the ABS model, the hub insert (which sits against the wheel rather than being fixed) acts as a spacer. 

2. I also preempted I may have some trouble with the bike's electrical systems so I bought some new braided racing set-up brake lines to bypass the ABS pump (standard lines feed to the ABS pump on their way to the wheel). I don't know if this is necessary, but makes the bike look a bit blingier anyway and I'm hoping to dig out the ABS pump at some point and sell it.

3.  The ABS warning light and engine warning light are now illuminated. I will find a fix for this at some point and update this thread as and when, but having just passed MOT I'm not fussed by it for now. 

4. The speedo no longer works (frozen at zero). This was something I thought was a possibility but had hoped I wouldn't have to deal with. The TDM has its speed sensor on the output shaft on the front sprocket. I think this may well only be in use for non-abs models only. I think the ABS models will take speed from the ABS sensor on the front wheel. I think I'll look into fixing this by purchasing a used speed sensor off ebay and seeing if it is a straight wire in jobby. This is only to keep my mileage updating so I can easily update my fuel economy on fuelly. For those of you with pristine bikes that are low mileage and still worth something I would recommend holding off for a solution on this one before attempting. For me, I don't really care beyond fuel economy. I ride the same number of miles give or take per month so I do my servicing by time intervals than miles, and it won't be worth anything by the time I've killed it - which is the harsh pragmatic truth of my relationship of convenience with this terrific bike.

5. I may not bother with the speedo though as I'm looking for an excuse to install a Garmin Zumo

 

Given the number of you that will have just read that: two warning lights and no speedo, and think they don't want to ruin their bike or chase gremlins to try and fix it - I think it's absolutely worth it. It handled suspiciously well for the bike I thought it would be when I bought it. But now, now it's something else. I only got to play on a few roundabouts but this thing will really get about on the twisties now. 

 

Felt a little more unstable filtering through traffic on the A2 (national speed limit dual carriageway and 50mph average speed zone) but that's to be expected given reduced gyroscopic effect. White lines seemed to affect it more when splitting in terms of unsettling the bike - I think that's more to do with it being 1/2" lower at the front than momentum of wheel. Nothing different from a Non-ABS model in those regards



#20 dablik

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 04:08 pm

Wait till ya try it at 120mph, just dont fall off :D i loved the lower wheel on my old 9r.


Bigred mk1 R1 Calipers- Braided lines- Givi wing rack-Crash bungs- Hi vis bullets-PR2's- and a hoot to ride.

Quad 900 Silver Laser duo tech pipes-Scott oiler-Engine crash bars- Radiator mounted see me ring LED's-Datatool system 3 alarm -Centre stand- Extender fender-Renthal bars-Handle bar risers-Mirror extenders-BMW GS Handgaurds-Acumen uprated horn & Nautilus-Stainless steel Radiator guard-Givi wing rack-OEM screen-Yammy touring screen-MRA Vario-MRA Double bubble cut down for fast as fk riding-Tiger screen-Tank protector-Stomp grip panels-Optimate lead   Gone to Heaven  :sorry: 

 

1991 MK1 in need of some TLC watch this space   :) Sorted and on the Road Mick  :P  :P it's the bike that Jack built  ;) Gone to Heaven  :wub: 

 



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