15 replies to this topic

[celticbiker]

I have been riding bikes now for 42 years and over that time I have learned a thing or two on the subject, the main one being, when you are having problems, seek expert advice.

Since getting the Fazer I've been having a lot of trouble riding it, to the point in fact that I was wondering if I had made a mistake in buying it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm riding it faster than I ever rode the TDM but it's hard work and heavy on the upper arms and shoulders. I'm concentrating so hard on keeping the bike on track that it's mentally exhausting too, I can barely manage 300 miles in a day.

I was starting to get frustrated with myself, I'm riding it the same as I've ridden all my other bikes for the last 25 years TDM's, XT's, XJ's so why the problem with this one?

My technique is the tried and tested (and widely taught) anchored push.

 

Excerpt from the popular Full control book.

 

 

 

Anchored push

 

To countersteer you must push precisely on the handlebar. In order for the steering command to move the

handlebar accurately, and not push your body backwards, you need ‘anchoring’. Just try it; stand with

your side towards a wall with your feet close together. Raise your arm and give the wall a firm push. To prevent

yourself falling you must step out with the foot furthest from the wall to support you. You must ‘anchor’ yourself.

On the bike, the natural anchoring point is the outside footpeg, the peg facing outward from the centre of the

bend. 

An ‘anchored push’ means that you anchor yourself on the outer footpeg (consciously feel the peg under your

foot), contract your leg muscles just like a small kick-off, and transfer this force to the opposite handlebar end.

The term ‘anchored push’ signifies that you both anchor and push at the same time in order to achieve precision

in your steering command.

In a normal corner, the anchored push is experienced more as a ‘feeling’ than an exertion of raw power. But at

higher speeds, not to mention emergency swerving, you really need muscle in order to achieve the necessary

effect of the steering command. That is why the technique of an anchored push is so important. To aid that push

consider at the same time pulling on the opposite handlebar whilst still remaining ‘anchored’ to the machine.

 

 

 

Having used this technique for years I couldn't understand why I was having so much trouble.

After literally minutes of ceaseless searching I found the following videos and having used the information from them they have transformed the way I ride and how the bike behaves.

The most informative is the Troy Corsa one, He says the same as the others but actually explains the reasons for it and it was that video that explained why I was having so much trouble.

Basically a 30 year old technique has been fine and worked well for my bikes of choice because they were derived from 30 year old ideas and understanding of suspension and geometry but around 2006 there was a change in understanding of these things and bikes since then have been based on race bike derived technology, this also requires a change in riding technique to get the best out of the bike.

 

 

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be

 

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be

 

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be

 

And for the more technically minded of us

 

 

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be

 

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be

 

https://www.youtube....Qylk1heI&t=165s

Edited by celticbiker, 12 March 2017 - 12:08 am.

[dmmsta]

Interesting read, but the links try to download something rather than click through to YT.

[muddy]

Use the copy URL facility in YT or copy each address from the URL bar. If the address is correct each one should embed. Or just trim the end of the URLs losing the &feature=youtu.be

Edited by muddy, 12 March 2017 - 01:41 pm.

[trevini]

Can't do anything with the links. 

[Studley Ramrod]

https://www.youtube.com/v/hlfN9Z6IlI0

 

https://www.youtube.com/v/ysQThqrpI1c

 

https://www.youtube.com/v/HeMSfgb5tks

 

https://www.youtube.com/v/Ikjw4IheeF4

 

https://www.youtube.com/v/JutNhZw1TB0

 

https://www.youtube.com/v/F9yQylk1heI

 

[trevini]

Studders you superstar. Ta muchly. Mwwwwahhhh.

I guess I should have tried them first - still no worky pour Moi. Trying to download something.

[dmmsta]

Fixed

 

https://youtu.be/hlfN9Z6IlI0

https://youtu.be/ysQThqrpI1c

https://youtu.be/HeMSfgb5tks

https://youtu.be/Ikjw4IheeF4

https://youtu.be/JutNhZw1TB0

https://youtu.be/F9yQylk1heI

[dmmsta]

Dave Moss - The man knows his shizzle.

 

I guess the TDM is more ol' school, but still some good info there - with oil change on my forks coming up I really must try to get them dialed in better.

[dmmsta]

I've read this before:
http://www.carpe-tdm...=14013&p=132173

But wondered if there was anything similar for the 9er...I couldn't find anything directly in search.

 

I've got stock standard setup on my 9er, and at ~14st I'm not a massive cake fiend.

 

Do people think I'll be able to get some sort of sensible from the OEM front end?

[celticbiker]

I tried for 130000 miles on my first 9er to no avail.
My second one has race tech gold valves in the forks which make a big difference and the nitron rear shock completes the set up.
Unfortunately it's the only way you will get anything like stability and control at speed with the tdm.
The trouble is, like all yams, even the newest tracer they tend to be under sprung and under damped unless you are about nine stone wet through.

[dmmsta]

I tried for 130000 miles on my first 9er to no avail.

My second one has race tech gold valves in the forks which make a big difference and the nitron rear shock completes the set up.

Unfortunately it's the only way you will get anything like stability and control at speed with the tdm.

The trouble is, like all yams, even the newest tracer they tend to be under sprung and under damped unless you are about nine stone wet through.

Edited by dmmsta, 13 March 2017 - 10:15 pm.

[fixitsan]

The best thing for me on the 9er was to drop down low over the tank, with my head behind a slightly dirty screen, when countersteering becomes a total delight. (But I am 16 stone so maybe it's also the effect of getting the weight lower)

 

The 850 likes it too but i find that the 850 seating position, and the quicker steering causes me fewer steering problems. It hops about a bit more at the front than the 9er does but it seems easier to change line mid corner if necessary

[Hombre]

One and a half hours long and a bit cheesy in places but lots of good stuff.

 

https://youtu.be/t0vUr5oUdNM

[dmmsta]

I tried for 130000 miles on my first 9er to no avail.
My second one has race tech gold valves in the forks which make a big difference and the nitron rear shock completes the set up.
Unfortunately it's the only way you will get anything like stability and control at speed with the tdm.
The trouble is, like all yams, even the newest tracer they tend to be under sprung and under damped unless you are about nine stone wet through.

Dragging this back up.

Wemoto sell YSS PD Valves at a more realistic price for my budget.

The question is what size is required and are these YSS valves any cop?

[Bjørge]

 

Having used this technique for years I couldn't understand why I was having so much trouble.

After literally minutes of ceaseless searching I found the following videos and having used the information from them they have transformed the way I ride and how the bike behaves.

The most informative is the Troy Corsa one, He says the same as the others but actually explains the reasons for it and it was that video that explained why I was having so much trouble.

Basically a 30 year old technique has been fine and worked well for my bikes of choice because they were derived from 30 year old ideas and understanding of suspension and geometry but around 2006 there was a change in understanding of these things and bikes since then have been based on race bike derived technology, this also requires a change in riding technique to get the best out of the bike.

 

 

This is my experience, too - now and then riding new/-ish bikes, I must forget about countersteering, just look where you want to go and you get there . Rode a MT-07 tracer for a coupla days and it literally rides itself. First time I experienced something like this was on a 2001 VFR. I almost panicked and didn't understand how to steer it. After 30 kms or so - "aha! forget about turnig the bike ! not necesary !" 

 

I must say, though, that my MkI with gold valves, nitron rear shoch\k and new PR3s starts feeling like a new(ish) bike. A bit top heavy, though...

Edited by Bjørge, 03 May 2017 - 10:13 pm.

[harvey krumpet]

In addition to counter steering I did some practice and training on body position to maximise grip on the road and increase control. I've always ridden like a puddin. Pretty static and upright on a bike like the cops on the old Beemers. I jumped on a Fireblade a few years ago and much to my horror it refused to go around tight corners without a wrestling match. Bloody sprot bikes thought I.

 

Anyhoo, The techniques I learned are to pivot around the tank to get your weight onto the inside of the corner, this is not sliding across the seat and hanging a cheek off. You pivot around the tank pushing your inside knee further forward and weighting the inside footrest as your body weight shifts. A strong position, well braced by gripping with your knees. Drop your elbow and shoulder and turn your head to look as far through the corner as possible. The old scone is pretty heavy and getting it inside the centre line makes a difference to turning, quite a big one.

 

It's taken me a couple of years to get this technique comfortable and natural and I only really move if I'm pressing on but I think I may be doing it subliminally quite often.

 

From a road safety perspective the idea is to have the bike slightly more upright for a given speed to increase grip margins. From a riding perspective it just seems to increase corner speed.

 

I jumped on a GSX R recently and it felt really agile and natural with the new inputs.