Jump to content


Fast Idle Plunger Repair (TDM 900) [ie Cold Start ]


  • Please log in to reply
153 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_E.T._*

Guest_E.T._*
  • Guests

Posted 28 July 2007 - 09:02 pm

For a little while the fast idle hadn't been working properly, so at long last I decided to do something about it. I hope the following will help others. Incidentally the fast idle unit can't be bought as a seperate unit, you can only buy it as part of the complete throttle body assembly, list price about £1300...yes thirteen hundred!!! unsure.gif


SYMPTOMS
Originally the symptom was one of no high idle on start up on a cold engine, making it difficult to start and keep running. After a service, and I can't remember the exact circumstances here...it was months ago...the symptoms chaged to having a fast idle at start up, but then remaining fast.


WHAT THE PROBLEM IS
The fast idle plunger is a little unit screwed onto the front of the throttle body. It has two pipes off the radiator which heat a wax stat. As the wax stat heats it expands, pushing a plunger side ways. This pushes against a slider arrangement (which is sprung loaded) and adjusts the throttle setting (independently to the twist throttle).

All of this is exposed to the elements and the water and spray tends to work into the plunger and seize it up. Hence it can get stuck in one position.


WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT
the repair is simple in theory. The fast idle assembly is held onto the throttle body by two screws. Remove these and remove the two radiator hoses and take it off the bike. The whole thing comes apart with two screws. Free it up, lubricate and replace on the bike. Easy eh!?


EXCEPT
Getting to the bugger!

1. Prop up the fuel tank. I've made myself a holder-upper. Consists of a bit of aluminium shower curtain rail, flattened either end. An 8mm hole drilled in either end at 400mm centres. Use the tank bolt and a nut bolt of suitable type and prop the tank up so... it's nice and secure and great for lots of those under tank jobs.

Picture 1


2. Once the tank is up you need to remove the air filter box. I didn't remove this altogether, I just disconnected the hoses, undid the jubilee clips on the air intakes, and the securing bolt at the very front, then lifted it to one side.

Picture 2


(you'll notice from the picture 1, that I placed a clean sandwich bag over the air inlets to the engine to keep any potential dirt/dropped screws etc out)


3. Now you can easily see the Fast Idle plunger. This is on the right hand side of the bike at the top of the throttle body (its the cleanest looking bit in the photo, at about "7pm").

Picture 3


Disconnect the two pipes, having something suitable to plug the ends (to save draining the coolant down)...BUT see below before you look for plugs. I ended up using a couple of 6.5mm twist drills (blunt end in, of course)

Picture 4


Now you will notice that you have just two screw to take out. Except...you will also notice that there is a radiator pipe in front of the screws. I got a ratchet with a 6.5mm socket and a screwdriver bit (philips), but it was far too tight to undo - I was beginning to damage the head. The only real way to get that out was confront it head on!

6. Drain down the coolant (don't bother with the plug screw on the water pump) just drain using the screw on the front of the cylinder block, this will get the coolant level low enough. Don't forget to catch the coolant in a clean container, ready to stick back in later.

7. Remove the offending pipe. Now wouldn't you think that would be easy. Two Jubilee clips and a bit of tug...but oh no! If you look here, you will see Mr Yamaha has carefully placed the jubilee clip facing downward, meaning no way to get a screw driver on it to undo. This was a careful shuffle with a small spanner...6mm (I think...I can't remember. sorry unsure.gif ), moving it 2 degrees at a time.

Picture 5


8. Remove all the bolts that hold the radiator (no need to disconnect the rad altogether - removing these bolts the rad can just be dropped enough)

9. Now you can get to the screws from the front - here's how I did it...

Picture 6



Picture 7



10. And finally off comes the fast idle assembly...

Picture 8



Undoing the two screws reveals the inside of the assembly.

Picture 9




and the offending part is this stainless steel pin. It was pretty solid, but lightly tapping it back and forth freed it up until I could push it out of the body (you need to take it out from the inside). This was then cleaned, and I used copperslip grease on the pin (I wondered whether it was genuinly road grome, or some electrolytic corrosion between the aluminium and the stainless that caused the partial seizure..??)

Picture 10


11. Sticking it all back together is pretty much the reverse of the above. I like to stick copperslip on everything as I replace to make next time easier. When you replace the radiator hoses, and bolt it all together, do remember to do up the jubilee clip otherwise coolant pisses out every where... blush.gif ...then you have to take the tank off again, and the air filter box ranting.gif

One other point was I found it difficult to get the air box located onto the throttle body air intakes. In the end I split the box took out the airfilter so I could guide the rubbers over the intakes - lot easier.



[Oh and if you haven't done the airbox mod yet...now's a great time to do it. There's another thread on this somewhere!]

Edited by E.T., 29 July 2007 - 01:50 pm.


#2 SteveGlover

SteveGlover

    850 going for 900

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 857 posts
  • Location:Bolton. Lancs
  • TDM model: 2003

Posted 28 July 2007 - 09:28 pm

Excellent write up ET, and good photo's good.gif

#3 Hartside Man

Hartside Man

    Old Moaning Git !!

  • RTT manager(RTT)
  • 3,247 posts
  • Location:On Hartside more often than not ! But Live in Carlisle UK
  • TDM model: no more

Posted 28 July 2007 - 09:39 pm

QUOTE(SteveGlover @ Sat 28th Jul 2007, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Excellent write up ET, and good photo's good.gif


+1 ditto this needs moved to the knowlegebase good.gif

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I have a Ghost S and i'm not afraid to use it !

A Beast in Orange Called KaTie eM 

"Four wheels move the body. Two wheels move the soul".

"So you just ride somewhere, eat cake and then ride back".


"Normal people believe that if it ain't broken, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain't broken, it doesn't have enough features yet."

 

" I We're Ridin so Fast , I we're sucking Rabbits from the Hedges "   {Guy Martin}


#4 dapleb

dapleb

    Monkey Boy

  • Root Admin(A)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,104 posts
  • Location:The home of morris dancin
  • TDM model: 1990

Posted 28 July 2007 - 10:44 pm

Is this a common 900 problem?
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"

If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117

Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.

Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.

#5 endo

endo

    Carpe fan

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 170 posts
  • Location:Liverpool
  • TDM model: 2004

Posted 28 July 2007 - 11:19 pm

E.T.

You must have been in my garage taking pics when I did mine!!

I did mine the same way, even down to the extentions on the end of the bit driver


Well done for the write-up


Endo

#6 Hartside Man

Hartside Man

    Old Moaning Git !!

  • RTT manager(RTT)
  • 3,247 posts
  • Location:On Hartside more often than not ! But Live in Carlisle UK
  • TDM model: no more

Posted 28 July 2007 - 11:45 pm

QUOTE(dapleb @ Sat 28th Jul 2007, 10:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is this a common 900 problem?


Endo, E.T. , Hartside man ................. i can see a pattern forming here cool.gif

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I have a Ghost S and i'm not afraid to use it !

A Beast in Orange Called KaTie eM 

"Four wheels move the body. Two wheels move the soul".

"So you just ride somewhere, eat cake and then ride back".


"Normal people believe that if it ain't broken, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain't broken, it doesn't have enough features yet."

 

" I We're Ridin so Fast , I we're sucking Rabbits from the Hedges "   {Guy Martin}


#7 wicklamulla

wicklamulla

    is it Jizzy Rascal time yet.....?

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,211 posts
  • Location:Parish of Cruwys (pronounced 'Cruise' just loike Tom) Morchard, Mid Devon.
  • TDM model: 1999

Posted 29 July 2007 - 01:57 am

gr8 write up ET. does it work now ??

spyball alarm/immob, bluespot brake calipers and Stainless hoses, Fournales air adjustable shock with Remote Resevoir, forks raised 10mm thru yokes, racetech linear fork springs in 15 wt oil, Kappa wingrack/luggage, heated grips, Kedo handguards, dual heat controller to power heated jacket liner and or pants!!, Stebel 136DB horn, K&N air filter, colour matched Baglux tank cover (magnetic tank bag modified to fit cover), osram +50% headloight bulbs, headlight protector,"NitramSpecial" parking loight, tail light indicators all running on LED's & incorporate "Lite Buddies", MK7 Scottoiler fitted, taller screen, 2-2 stainless steel CCC's, Devil stainless down pipes. MKI Renntec engine crash bars & sump guard.
engine changed july 2007 on a dyno run it made 79.1BHP / Torque 59.9Had a brief flirtation with a 1999 MKIIa but it blew an exaust valve on the M5 so was sold on to be repaired.

I loike tay and hang sangwiches !

www.kenhogantreeservices.co.uk

http://s33.photobuck...77/wickla/?sc=6



http://reg.imageshack.us/v_images.php

post-1-1150550733.gifpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif


#8 Landy

Landy

    I should post less and ride more

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,387 posts
  • Location:Mid Suffolk, UK
  • TDM model: 2006

Posted 29 July 2007 - 07:56 am

Not as widely known as Copaslip but you can also get Alumslip which is as you may have already guessed aluminium based.
TS50ER, Suzuki GT125, Cagiva 125, Suzuki GT250 20 year gap. Honda CBF600. Discovered the joy of TDM, 1974 GT250 has joined the stable
Vario touring screen, Stainless Steel Rad Guard, Fender Extender (it came off), Givi V46 Topbox (inc brake light), SW-Motech Engine Bars, Wingrack, LED Tail Light
Still in the shed:- BMW Hand Guards, Heated Grips, Aux Lamps.

#9 Guest_E.T._*

Guest_E.T._*
  • Guests

Posted 29 July 2007 - 09:10 am

QUOTE(wicklamulla @ Sun 29th Jul 2007, 12:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
gr8 write up ET. does it work now ??


Yep good.gif


QUOTE(Hartside Man @ Sat 28th Jul 2007, 08:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
+1 ditto this needs moved to the knowlegebase good.gif



Be my guest

JBX if you're reading, you're more than welcome to copy, plagerise, adapt etc for your site too.

#10 Mitch

Mitch

    Knight of Postsalot

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 534 posts
  • Location:Lavenham, Suffolk.
  • TDM model: 2002

Posted 29 July 2007 - 09:21 am

Nice work John.

Honda SS50

Honda CG125

Honda 250 Super Drean

Honda 751F1

Honda CX500

Kawasaki Z750E

 

TDM 900

PRP exhaust, Scottoiler touring, Yamaha Heated grips, Givi top box & panniers, Garmin, MRA Vario screen, fenda extenda, BMW hand guards. Nippy Normans bar risers. 'Nitram Special' parking light. Starcom. Hagon progressive fork springs. Hagon Monoshock with Remote Adjuster. SW-Motech mirror extenders.GIVI Engine Protectors.

 

BMW K1200LT (2000)

 

Nothing to add, has it all. :)

 

Kawasaki Z750E (1981)

 

In bits. :huh:


#11 Yellowasp

Yellowasp

    Carpe junky

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 449 posts
  • Location:Nuneaton
  • TDM model: 2003

Posted 29 July 2007 - 09:35 pm

Cool stuff good.gif
Yellow Tdm 900 with lots of bits added

#12 dandywarhol

dandywarhol

    Carpe Citizen

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,324 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, Scotland
  • TDM model: 2003

Posted 05 August 2007 - 04:03 pm

Good writeup. Minty Hippo had a problem with his too.........

1967 Yamaha TD1C 250, 2014 Kawasaki W800, 2011 Aprilia Tuono 1000 V4, 2020 Yamaha XSR900

"At the cutting edge of technophobia" Scotland_180-animated-flag-gifs.gif mccoy.gif
 


#13 Minty Hippo

Minty Hippo

    Knight of Postsalot

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 725 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh area
  • TDM model: no more

Posted 13 September 2007 - 09:36 am

QUOTE(dandywarhol @ Sun 5th Aug 2007, 02:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good writeup. Minty Hippo had a problem with his too.........


Sorry, got to this thread a bit late. Yes I had the same prob - but not the wit to take the whole thing apart and do it properly. I hit it with a hammer and now it works. Nice work ET. smile.gif

#14 Guest_E.T._*

Guest_E.T._*
  • Guests

Posted 13 September 2007 - 04:53 pm

QUOTE(Minty Hippo @ Thu 13th Sep 2007, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry, got to this thread a bit late. Yes I had the same prob - but not the wit to take the whole thing apart and do it properly. I hit it with a hammer and now it works. Nice work ET. smile.gif



The bigger the problem, the bigger the hammer! eh? cool.gif

#15 Sparky

Sparky

    just half a litre to go

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 809 posts
  • Location:Barnsley, South Yorkshire
  • TDM model: none yet

Posted 13 October 2007 - 06:07 pm

I did this repair today as mine had stuck somewhere between the normal and fast idle positions. Many thanks to ET for the original write-up. I thought I might add a couple of observations for anyone else needing to do this job in the future, as they make it a bit easier:

1) It is possible to remove the plunger and leave the thermostat in position, thus eliminating the need to interfere with the cooling system and move the radiator. I did this by using a #2 Philips screwdriver bit (the hex type that fits into a holder), held at a right angle by a pair of mole grips. This creates a powerful right angle screwdriver that will easily remove the mounting screws if used carefully. It is imperative that the bit is a Philips, not Pozi, and in perfect condition, otherwise you risk chewing the screw head. Once these are removed, the assembly can be moved downwards and the screws that clamp the plunger to the thermostat can be tackled using a normal screwdriver from under the frame. You may need to move the hose clamps along slightly as the screwdriver must go between the coolant pipes if you are to get it perfectly in line - which, again, is imperative.

2) In the immortal words of Mr Haynes: 'Refitting is a reversal of removal', but I would strongly, STRONGLY recommend that before you do this job, you buy some M5x40mm stainless cap screws (i.e. allen key head). I certainly would have, had I known the size. Cut them to the same length as the originals and use these for refitting. This way, if you ever need to do it again, it'll be removed in no time and with much greater ease.

3) Don't make the same mistake as me and tip your nice full fuel tank upright, leaving it to drip neat petrol all over the floor via the breather. istupid.gif If your tank is full, or indeed in any case, make sure you clamp the breather pipe.

Once again, acknowledgements to ET, and sorry if I've repeated anything mentioned in the original write-up. smile.gif

Edited by Sparky, 13 October 2007 - 11:28 pm.

Ex-TDM owner. Now riding a Sprint ST 1050

#16 Guest_E.T._*

Guest_E.T._*
  • Guests

Posted 14 October 2007 - 06:11 am

QUOTE(Sparky @ Sat 13th Oct 2007, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
3) Don't make the same mistake as me and tip your nice full fuel tank upright, leaving it to drip neat petrol all over the floor via the breather. istupid.gif If your tank is full, or indeed in any case, make sure you clamp the breather pipe.


Further Tip...


Don't do this job if you smoke wink.gif


#17 Sparky

Sparky

    just half a litre to go

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 809 posts
  • Location:Barnsley, South Yorkshire
  • TDM model: none yet

Posted 14 October 2007 - 12:34 pm

QUOTE(E.T. @ Sun 14th Oct 2007, 06:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Further Tip...
Don't do this job if you smoke wink.gif


rotflmmfao.gif rotflmmfao.gif
Ex-TDM owner. Now riding a Sprint ST 1050

#18 Guest_Catteeclan_*

Guest_Catteeclan_*
  • Guests

Posted 13 December 2007 - 03:18 pm

Hi all. Thought it was about time I joined here as I've had my 2004 TDM from new. Bit slow I know.

Just done said job to my 04 model.

Didn't bother taking the whole wax stat off. Just undone the 2 screws securing the it to the throttle body, then undoing the 2 screws holding the body together. So no need to bother with the water pipes etc.

Don't know if this has happened before to anyone though?
Been running rough as late so decided to check the valve clearences and balance the throttle bodys. All where fine so fitted some new plugs and reassembled only to find it was still not right. While it was still quite cool and ticking over I noticed C1 was popping from the exhaust. After checking the co settings I found C! = -128 and C2 = 18. I haven't done this so for some reason it's happened by itself.

Only thing I can think of is at this time of the year, (cold) the battery struggles to turn the engine over first thing in the morn. Could the ECU loose it's mem or get a spike as the power comes back in after starting?

Edited by Catteeclan, 13 December 2007 - 03:40 pm.


#19 dandywarhol

dandywarhol

    Carpe Citizen

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,324 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, Scotland
  • TDM model: 2003

Posted 13 December 2007 - 04:52 pm

Before I had the TPS mod mine would occasionally cut out and the clock/odometer would reset. The CO settings weren't affected though. Someone's been mucking about with yours - maybe to compensate for the fast idle problem?

1967 Yamaha TD1C 250, 2014 Kawasaki W800, 2011 Aprilia Tuono 1000 V4, 2020 Yamaha XSR900

"At the cutting edge of technophobia" Scotland_180-animated-flag-gifs.gif mccoy.gif
 


#20 Guest_Catteeclan_*

Guest_Catteeclan_*
  • Guests

Posted 13 December 2007 - 07:35 pm

QUOTE(dandywarhol @ Thu 13th Dec 2007, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Before I had the TPS mod mine would occasionally cut out and the clock/odometer would reset. The CO settings weren't affected though. Someone's been mucking about with yours - maybe to compensate for the fast idle problem?


Other than it's first service, Mine are the only hands to touch it as I do the maintenence myself.
I've read on here that someone else has had the other cylinder do the same but was put down to an air leak from the air box mod.

Tis very strange.



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users