Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Ceramic Bores


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 thelodger

thelodger

    Carpe fan

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 150 posts
  • Location:euxton
  • TDM model: 2010

Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:14 am

Just  a query out of interest. I know my 9er has ceramic bores so will never need topping up with oil ( fingers crossed ) 

 

.....but why is it so effective ?

 

.......how does it work?

 

.........does it run hotter/ cooler than cast iron liners etc ?

 

Is this the same as the Nikasil bore that I've heard of ?

 

Cheers

 

Nigel



#2 Studley Ramrod

Studley Ramrod

    Monkey Boys Monkey

  • Root Admin(A)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,202 posts
  • Location:HELLO ! I'm in the Library...Notts
  • TDM model: 1993

Posted 14 December 2017 - 11:01 am

It's prolly more to do with the fact that the liners are alloy so they expand at the same rate as the alloy pistons allowing for tighter tolerances. Alloy liners need the ceramic coating to prevent premature wear.  Steel/iron liners expand more than the alloy pistons so the tolerances atwixt bores and pistoons on 8fiddlys are greater.

 

Yes, nikasil is a ceramic coating, think it's used more in twostroke engwins though.

 

:)


Mk2a 2000 in Silver. Top end Refurb @ 41100 miles, Scottoiler, Renthal Road High Bars, Up & Back Bar Risers, Bellypan, DL650 Handguards, Capt. Picard Bar Ends, House of Henty SS Wheel spacers, New Seat Cover Fitted. 58 MPG !!  Now owned by chrisbee !   Studley's mk2a Bloggerydoodaah !  Photos of my first MK1  Photos of my MK2a  TPLQHCSRSFC No. 1 Fan


#3 Gauntlett

Gauntlett

    seems to like Carpe

  • Member
  • 77 posts
  • Location:Cumbria
  • TDM model: 1999

Posted 14 December 2017 - 01:12 pm

BMW K's and I think R's have had nikasil bores for years, run forever



#4 Favs

Favs

    Sir Cumference

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,391 posts
  • Location:County Durham
  • TDM model: 2008

Posted 14 December 2017 - 03:43 pm

Gilera Saturno Bialbero nikasil too


Single-handedly reviving the Wave.

 

2008 reg. Black TDM 900 ABS

 

 

 


#5 dandywarhol

dandywarhol

    Carpe Citizen

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,324 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, Scotland
  • TDM model: 2003

Posted 14 December 2017 - 04:06 pm

As above but they will still use some oil - that's not a bad thing as it helps premature wear of the pistons


1967 Yamaha TD1C 250, 2014 Kawasaki W800, 2011 Aprilia Tuono 1000 V4, 2020 Yamaha XSR900

"At the cutting edge of technophobia" Scotland_180-animated-flag-gifs.gif mccoy.gif
 


#6 harvey krumpet

harvey krumpet

    has been here 4ever

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,049 posts
  • Location:New Zealand
  • TDM model: 1997

Posted 14 December 2017 - 08:08 pm

Oh, I thought this thread would be about Royal Doulton collectors.


TDM 850 Loud and unusual. CRM 250r Woo hoo! DT 230 Lanza Fiddled with.... Bloody hell, is that legal? GG Randonee AKA "I didn't think that was possible".


#7 madmopedracer

madmopedracer

    Carpe junky

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 473 posts
  • TDM model: 1993

Posted 14 December 2017 - 09:21 pm

brothers mk1 guzzi lemans had them



#8 dandywarhol

dandywarhol

    Carpe Citizen

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,324 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, Scotland
  • TDM model: 2003

Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:25 am

My 1967 Yamaha TD1C has them. Piston/bore clearance of 0.04mm - on a race engine   :pimp:


1967 Yamaha TD1C 250, 2014 Kawasaki W800, 2011 Aprilia Tuono 1000 V4, 2020 Yamaha XSR900

"At the cutting edge of technophobia" Scotland_180-animated-flag-gifs.gif mccoy.gif
 


#9 JBX

JBX

    full o shoite

  • RTT manager(RTT)
  • 2,206 posts
  • Location:South France
  • TDM model: 2002

Posted 21 December 2017 - 04:36 pm

Engines with fuel injection require ceramic coating because O2 sensor / catalytic converter fail quickly in case of burned oil contamination.

As it is also more expensive the manufacturers didn't bother to use this technology on carbed engines.


top_640.png

 

 


#10 dapleb

dapleb

    Monkey Boy

  • Root Admin(A)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,104 posts
  • Location:The home of morris dancin
  • TDM model: 1990

Posted 21 December 2017 - 04:43 pm

They ignored the problem until they no longer could ... Crapolific converter
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"

If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117

Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.

Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.

#11 Quartermaster

Quartermaster

    900 going for ... 1000cc?

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 927 posts
  • Location:Bromsgrove, Worcestershire
  • TDM model: 2008

Posted 23 December 2017 - 08:10 am

my K100 had nikasil bores, Certainly didn't stop the oil running back past the rings when parked on its side stand. The resulting smoke on take off was very impressive.


 '73 Honda CB500 Four, Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 and Triumph Tiger Sport 660.


#12 fixitsan

fixitsan

    Carpe Citizen

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,667 posts
  • Location:West Lothian
  • TDM model: 2003

Posted 23 December 2017 - 08:28 am

They ignored the problem until they no longer could ... Crapolific converter

 

Or until the regulations stopped them from using it as a fuel efficiency move ;)  https://drivetribe.c...OSDqNRbA_yQazOg

 

Cheeky F1 teams !


900 with better bits. Owes me nothing, Makes me smile


#13 JBX

JBX

    full o shoite

  • RTT manager(RTT)
  • 2,206 posts
  • Location:South France
  • TDM model: 2002

Posted 23 December 2017 - 12:09 pm

Now we know why the 850 offers superior performance ! ;)


top_640.png

 

 


#14 dandywarhol

dandywarhol

    Carpe Citizen

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,324 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, Scotland
  • TDM model: 2003

Posted 23 December 2017 - 05:06 pm

my K100 had nikasil bores, Certainly didn't stop the oil running back past the rings when parked on its side stand. The resulting smoke on take off was very impressive.

Was that not caused by oil running past the intake valve stem oil seal running into the bores overnight?


Engines with fuel injection require ceramic coating because O2 sensor / catalytic converter fail quickly in case of burned oil contamination.

As it is also more expensive the manufacturers didn't bother to use this technology on carbed engines.

 

Hmmm, not many automotive engines use ceramic/nicasil bores and they've had catalytic converters for more than 20 years  ;)


1967 Yamaha TD1C 250, 2014 Kawasaki W800, 2011 Aprilia Tuono 1000 V4, 2020 Yamaha XSR900

"At the cutting edge of technophobia" Scotland_180-animated-flag-gifs.gif mccoy.gif
 


#15 Quartermaster

Quartermaster

    900 going for ... 1000cc?

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 927 posts
  • Location:Bromsgrove, Worcestershire
  • TDM model: 2008

Posted 23 December 2017 - 08:37 pm

Was that not caused by oil running past the intake valve stem oil seal running into the bores overnight?


 

Well it only did it when the bike was canted over on its side stand and so I'd assumed that as the engine was lying on its side, oil under the piston found its way past the rings but you are probably right Dandy. I never bothered to research it as I absolutely hated the bloody machine and sold it asap!


 '73 Honda CB500 Four, Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 and Triumph Tiger Sport 660.


#16 fixitsan

fixitsan

    Carpe Citizen

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,667 posts
  • Location:West Lothian
  • TDM model: 2003

Posted 23 December 2017 - 08:53 pm

 

Was that not caused by oil running past the intake valve stem oil seal running into the bores overnight?


 

Well it only did it when the bike was canted over on its side stand and so I'd assumed that as the engine was lying on its side, oil under the piston found its way past the rings but you are probably right Dandy. I never bothered to research it as I absolutely hated the bloody machine and sold it asap!

 

 

 

Mine did the same. On the sidestand the head was on the left and lower than the sump.... I thought it was leakage past the rings too, but then again the folk on the forums said it was valve guides too.  I never kept it long enough to find out


900 with better bits. Owes me nothing, Makes me smile


#17 dandywarhol

dandywarhol

    Carpe Citizen

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,324 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, Scotland
  • TDM model: 2003

Posted 24 December 2017 - 12:51 pm

 

 

Mine did the same. On the sidestand the head was on the left and lower than the sump.... I thought it was leakage past the rings too, but then again the folk on the forums said it was valve guides too.  I never kept it long enough to find out

The inlet valves are higher - wonder if they still smoked when parked on the mainstand


1967 Yamaha TD1C 250, 2014 Kawasaki W800, 2011 Aprilia Tuono 1000 V4, 2020 Yamaha XSR900

"At the cutting edge of technophobia" Scotland_180-animated-flag-gifs.gif mccoy.gif
 


#18 fixitsan

fixitsan

    Carpe Citizen

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,667 posts
  • Location:West Lothian
  • TDM model: 2003

Posted 24 December 2017 - 01:29 pm

The inlet valves are higher - wonder if they still smoked when parked on the mainstand

 

Apparently not as much. I did try it with mine once and it wasn't quite as spectacular a smoke screen, but if parked on the sidestand overnight the smoke could have hid a platoon of marines


900 with better bits. Owes me nothing, Makes me smile



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users