36 replies to this topic

[v8guy]

Hi all,

 

I've owned my TDM900 since 2005.. many happy times spent together and we're still best friends! But, for the firstsecond time in all those years (although not so many miles.. ~39k) she has let me down. Properly failed - left me standing by the side of the road waiting for a recovery truck kinda failed.

 

Whilst riding along, thankfully at a very low speed, she simply cut out on me.. as if there were no fuel in the tank. There's plenty of spark, no apparent electrical problems, and the engine turns over and over.. just no ignition. It's like there's no fuel, despite the tank being 2/3 full. The only visible sign of failure I have found at the roadside is that the PowerCommander III has no power - no lights, nothing. The bike had been running beautifully all day until this point!

 

For various reasons, the bike is currently marooned at a friend's house a few miles away, and I've yet to take it apart and start the investigation. I've been looking into likely causes, and therefore what I should be investigating when I get the opportunity. Reading around, I suspect the PCIII is powered off the fuel pump, so my primary hypothesis is a fuel pump failure, or PCIII failure. My first task is to make my way to the fuel pump and see if it's at fault, and then perhaps trying removing the PCIII completely to see the effect.

 

It'll be a while yet before I have the chance to start work, but I'm asking here in case anyone has any words of wisdom as to what else might be worth looking into.

 

Any ideas welcome! 

 

Cheers!

 

[dablik]

Red cable into one of the connectors under the tank is a possibility, happened to a few where it corrodes and breaks, so lift the tank, not heard of many fuel pump issues but possible for sure, i've been stopped dead on my 9r just like you and it turned out to be the cam position sensor, top left of engine, swapped mine with the crank position sensor behind the front sprocket, can be used as a get you home fix but the bike will start, replaced with 2nd hand one.......... just a heads up could be summit else..

 

Edit...cant remember if it's called the crank position sensor but sits behind the sprocket cover...

Edited by dablik, 05 September 2021 - 01:45 pm.

[fixitsan]

Given that the power commander has no lights, and my understanding is that a power commander interrupts the injector signal, I would assume that if there's no lights on the PC then there's no power emerging from the PC going to  the injectors, so that's what I would start with. Probe the PC power socket with a meter and check for the presence of 12V at the PC, if you've got 12V then the PC is suspect, but if you have no 12V at the PC trace back through the harness to the battery to find out why not.

If the PC is suspect, check continuity of the power wires between the plug to the body of PC itself, even opening the PC to get access to the circuit board if possible.

Doing this at least takes the PC and wiring out of the equation.

[v8guy]

Some good advice, thank you! I'm not really sure what the expected lifespan of PC should be, but I would expect a complete failure isn't particularly common. Still, checking that before the fuel pump actually makes a lot more sense, given that it's located under the seat..

[Catteeclan]

Easy check disconnect the PC connecting the original multi plugs back together and see what happens.

[fixitsan]

Easy check disconnect the PC connecting the original multi plugs back together and see what happens.

 

Thats the one !

[v8guy]

Finally gotten round to investigating this today. First thing was to disconnect the PC and connect up the plugs as Yamaha intended.. this doesn't change the behaviour - still no ignition.

 

I did find the disconnected O2 sensor and think that didn't look right so reconnected it.. at some point around this time I got a start up light on the PC when I turned on the ignition, and indeed the bike started momentarily before stopping again, with no sign of life in the PC. It's refused to light up since.

 

Poking around I can see a few things:

1. the fuel pump is getting 12V, measured at the disconnected terminals under the tank

1a. disconnected the fuel pump's two connectors sent the fuel guage haywire - this seems like expected behaviour, but i don't know

2. diag mode shows error codes 11, 19, 21, 22, 30 in memory. Looking these up on JBX's site suggests some of these may be historical (eg side stand code - testing it shows it works just fine, and I vaguely recall it needed replacement once in the distant past)

 

Err code 30 is the lean angle sensor, which reads 0.6 - this fits with JBX's page, but I note that it does not change as I move the bike, nor does it change if I cycle through the error codes after changing teh angle of the bike.

 

So, in summary..

 

Any more bright ideas?

[v8guy]

Poking around some more, I found an apparently disconnected wire from the main relay connector. After exposing teh wire and stuffing it into the connector where i found what appears to be the other end of the same wire, the PC sprang into life and the engine started.. this time running for a short while before, presumably, vibration dislodged the temporary connection and the engine died again.

 

It's a theory, anyhow. Does anyone with a bit more knowledge about the bike's electrics think this sounds like reasonable behaviour?

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Edited by v8guy, 01 October 2021 - 12:56 pm.

[AliG]

I didn't have a power commander, but exactly the same thing happened to me a couple of years ago on my old 2003 niner. Bike was running great and I stopped for a couple of hours and when I came back, it was turning over but not firing. I got it relayed home and eventually called on the services of Mr Henty to investigate. It turned out to be an intermittant earth fault from the main earth that is buried on the engine below the tank and is unreachable. He re-routed it and she burst into life. Never had an issue again.

[Snowbird]

So you found a broken wire, reconnected it and the bike started ok, looks like you've answered your own question there bud.

Crimp a new latch terminal to that wire, use a thin probe of some sort to release the old terminal from the plug and insert the new terminal that you crimped on and jobs a goodun.

Just a corroded wire, nice cheap fix.

[fixitsan]

Poking around some more, I found an apparently disconnected wire from the main relay connector. After exposing teh wire and stuffing it into the connector where i found what appears to be the other end of the same wire, the PC sprang into life and the engine started.. this time running for a short while before, presumably, vibration dislodged the temporary connection and the engine died again.

 

It's a theory, anyhow. Does anyone with a bit more knowledge about the bike's electrics think this sounds like reasonable behaviour?

 

Yup, as was mentioned previously above, so that is almost certainly the fault. You can repair the wire or disconnect the PC, as per Catteeclan's suggestion above

[steve27bha]

I think you have found the fault.  (ADD: I spent time writing this and the above replies beat me to posting)

 

Wires with Red as the main colour at the ECU seem to all be in the fuel injection system. See diagram 7-2 in the Work Shop manual for 2002. I think yours is the R/L (red with blue tracer).

The fault codes you saw in JBX's site are listed on page 7-4 of the same manual.

 

I have seen a listing of the connections on the ECU but cannot find it to refer you.

 

I cannot tell you exactly how to remake the joint, not having unplugged mine, but as a general guide there will be a pins in the white connector that are each retained by a tang you need to release with a fine screwdriver inserted from the connection end. You then have to connect your broken wire end to the pin either by crimping or solder - or using a new one (better). If that is beyond your abilities then strip a wee bit more insulation off the broken wire, jam it in the hole with a matchstick and ride it to an auto-electician to fix.

 

Good luck.

Edited by steve27bha, 01 October 2021 - 02:07 pm.

[v8guy]

Thanks for all your replies! 

 

It does seem like a sane theory but I can't say conclusively that connecting that wire momentarily fixed the fault, as I couldn't repeat the trick again. Then again, it's difficult to know whether you've made a decent connection in those plastic connectors. 

 

I'm not sure where to find the right connectors, but I love the matchstick idea.. perfect, ta! I'll take that approach and see if it sticks, as I want to get the bike seen by a mechanic to grease the swingarm bearings and give it a general once over - once there, they can apply a permanent fix.

 

Cheers!

[celticbiker]

Yeh, deffo this, It's located in a really bad place there.

My 140000 miler didn't suffer but my 98000 miler did.

Found there was no real way of fixing the broken joint so got a wiring loom from ebay off a low mileage bike to splice the connector onto my loom.

[PeterM91]

Once every 2-3 years, I clean the all the connectors beneath the tank with break cleaner, if necessary clean the metal pieces with fine sanding paper and spray the whole connector with:

 

Prevents a lot of trouble

[Catteeclan]

Once every 2-3 years, I clean the all the connectors beneath the tank with break cleaner, if necessary clean the metal pieces with fine sanding paper and spray the whole connector with:

 

Prevents a lot of trouble

NO NINER JOKES PLEASE

[wicklamulla]

NO NINER JOKES PLEASE

  

 

dang, beaten to it again!

[v8guy]

Crimp a new latch terminal to that wire, use a thin probe of some sort to release the old terminal from the plug and insert the new terminal that you crimped on and jobs a goodun.

Just a corroded wire, nice cheap fix.

 

Oh yes... it took me a while, but I have finally managed to find a replacement terminal, get it installed, put it all back together, lose a battery terminal bolt into the innards, spend an hour looking for it in 30C, sweat a lot, swear a lot... find a new terminal bolt, plug it all back together and fire it up. And yessir, the bike runs once more!

 

Until I let the clutch lever out (in or out of gear), or put it in gear (clutch in, sidestand up or down)... at which point the engine cuts out. I think my bike wants to retire, to be honest...

 

First thing that came to mind was the sidestand cutout switch, so i applied some WD-40 and checked it's moving properly.. all good, moves as expected. But, given that it cuts out when releasing the clutch lever in neutral, i'm not convinced that's the root cause. Anyone have any ideas?

Edited by v8guy, 17 June 2022 - 05:20 pm.

[Snowbird]

Bypass the switch entirely, just because it moves doesn't meat in makes a contact, symptoms say sidestand switch to me.
Ps. Just had 3 pints so errors of judgement are possible...

[dablik]

You should be able to unscrew the plate of the back of the sidestand switch, had to resolder one of mine..