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Air Source Heat Pumps


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#1 dapleb

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:17 pm

Anyone gok wan? Any thoughts? At the last minute before we install oil tank + boiler we have been offered all the kit at cost price.

Having a good old read but any first hand experience would be appreciated.
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#2 tr7dan

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 04:27 pm

I installed 5 of them in a prestige new build development two years ago - haven't really had any negative feedback from them except from one house where he said he was finding controlling the temperature  a bit hit and miss. They only operate at a fairly low surface temperature so are ideally suited to underfloor heating, which is not generally an easy retrofit thing, but if you have radiators then they have to be quite a bit oversized from normal calcs or they won't heat the rooms.

 

Are you thinking on to an existing system or will it be all new ? We found the pipework sizes also had to be increased from what we would normally use so personally, I wouldn't fit on to an existing system. I presume you've done some research and are aware that you will need to boost the hot water by electric immersion heater to get it up to a useable temperature.

 

The air source systems we used were designed and supplied by World Heat

 

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#3 dapleb

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 04:36 pm

Thanks Dan.

It would plug into a new bit so will be underfloor heating but also old pipework for rest of house. It's all a bit late as plans were for oil tank/boiler but have been offered this as a favour by someone who owns a heat source type company!!! They will even do the design for us.

Not done much in the way of research so didn't know aboooot the hot water boost required..... Looks like it's going to be a joyous weekend of reading up on this!!

Thanks again for info.
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If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117

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#4 tr7dan

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 04:54 pm

No probs.

 

The air source pump will only give you about 35-40 degrees, which is not really hot enough, and you can't store water at that temp anyway because of the risk of legionella forming (generally proliferates in water stored between 20-45 degrees). You need to store the water at or above 60deg which means using some other method to increase the temp above what the air pump will provide.

 

Dan



#5 TKH

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 03:40 pm

Spoke to a friend of mine from Baxi heating. They did a trial a year or two back and found that in winter conditions (sunny Lancashire) you are unlikely to have enough heat from the air pump to heat house and water. Result is two water heating systems, the air source plus gas/oil/electric/lpg. They also found that some models can be quite noisy. In effect they're air conditioning in reverse. 


Edited by TKH, 19 March 2018 - 03:41 pm.


#6 dapleb

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 06:07 pm

Thanks for the info TKH.

I had a read at weekend and seems a bit like marmoite. Peeps either lub it or hate it.

Lots of negatives I have read we about it not being much cop below 5degs...... Which Shirley is when you really want it to work!!!

Also that it only raises water temp to 45degs ish so you then need a separate electric immersion to get water temp to 60degs to avoid the pleasures of legionnaires disease.

We don't really have the room or want an immersion tank or the added hassle of additional plumbing ferret.

Also heard lots of reports of it actually raising rather than lowering costs.

The key seems to be in the house being well insulated (ours is over 100 years old so that's mostly a no) and the system well designed, which I am sure it would be as these guys know what they are doing.

Having said that the system has been offered at cost including under floor heating..... So it's tempting.
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If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117

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#7 dmmsta

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 09:51 am

No direct experience, but my cousin has a ASHP, and it's very effective, only has a small immersion heater for the very cold month...however he has a near passive house, so heat loss is <10% across the whole unit (3 floors).

 

All floors are concrete (polished) slap, with underfloor heating, which makes a significant difference when using ASHP.

 

I would suggest that retro fit to a "leaky house" is unlikely to be very effective.  Sticking with regular heating sources would be more effective, and if you can retro-fit underfloor heating you will be able to have a lower set point for central heating temp, as you're heating the room uniformly, rather than from one side with standard rad installation...


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#8 mh1848

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 01:40 pm

my old man had one installed a few years ago - Mitsubishi ecodan - and no separate immerser needed and no legionnaires and temp goes to 60 degrees max and get around £150 back (a quarter/ a year not sure would need to check for feedin)

 

runs central heating no problem in 4 aprtment semi detached and seems plenty hot water - and even during beast from east was still warm enough for my 85 year old thin blooded mother


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#9 dapleb

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 02:43 pm

Thanks chaps appreciate the replies.
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"

If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117

Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.

Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.

#10 Matlock

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 09:46 pm

Hi Dappers, a mate of mine installed a couple in his house in France a few years back. He was a former commercial heating engineer, so knew his onions. He used it for underfloor heating in the holiday apartments he built as part of a massive refurb/extension project he undertook. He told me then that they were great for the holiday apartments as these things worked best above a certain temp and were useless at low temps.That's why they were rare in the UK, but more common on the continent. Johnny Foreigner enjoys higher average temperatures, the bassad!!!! He had electric immersion heaters in mains pressure storage tanks for the hot water, but I can't remember if the heat pumps fed into into the hot water side of things.It would make sense if they did though. I was an engineer on British Gas back in the day, so took a keen interest when he showed me this set-up. Fortunately, the brain cells retaining this info remain intact, despite the best efforts of the nations cask ale breweries!  :rolleyes:


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#11 Bjørge

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 07:03 am

1) Lots of negatives I have read we about it not being much cop below 5degs...... Which Shirley is when you really want it to work!!!

Also that it 2) only raises water temp to 45degs ish so you then need a separate electric immersion to get water temp to 60degs to avoid the pleasures of legionnaires disease.

Also heard lots of reports of it 3) actually raising rather than lowering costs.

The key seems to be in the 4) house being well insulated (ours is over 100 years old so that's mostly a no) and the system well designed, which I am sure it would be as these guys know what they are doing.

Having said that the system has been offered at cost including under floor heating..... So it's tempting.

 

1) Yes, there are units that stop producing surplus heat at that temp. But where I live there are a lot of these pumps and they are in use down to -15C. I used to have one, and it worked well down to at least -10C. Find a unit that's better at low temp !

2) Are you using an oil heated boiler or a leccy one today ? Wouldn't it be possible to just use pre-heated water for boiler input ?

3) I've never heard of that one. But - the most cost-efficient ones are the air/air heaters, as these are cheap to buy and cheaper to install.

4) It's the other way around, actually - the higher energy loss the more you save on installing a heat pump. In a ~passive house you won't ever save enough for paying the investment. 

 

Just my 4p 


Bjørge


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