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Law Now Passed In France And Ireland


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#1 aytcat1

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 11:17 pm

Against EU Member States Introducing Mandatory High Visibility Clothing For Motorcyclists

Responsible department: Department for Transport

We the undersigned urge the British Government to put pressure on the European Commission to discipline any member state that imposes clothing standards on motorcycle riders. We view any such requirement as an expression of prejudice against motorcyclists and a barrier to the free movement of people within the EU. With regard to the current proposals on mandatory high visibility clothing being considered by some member states, we consider this to be ill advised and naïve. We challenge the speculation that high visibility clothing will reduce accidents involving motorcyclists. We question the right of motorists to hold driving licenses if they are incapable of seeing a rider and motorcycle unless clad in high visibility clothing. We challenge the logic that imposes unreasonable requirements on the victims of accidents in order to accommodate the failings of those who cause them

https://submissions....petitions/26931


#2 MikC

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 11:23 pm

Done

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#3 3vd

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:43 am

Done.

My mate was wearing a hi vis vest when we were out the other day on the bikes. He was leading, a car pulled out right in front of him, why? He did bloody look, so hi vis or not he didn't see my mate. Accident was thankfully avoided.

#4 3vd

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:56 am

So this stupid frigging law has already been passed in Ireland and France, WTF???

#5 danceswithmopeds

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 12:52 pm

MAG Ireland recently did a survey of bikers opinions on proposed Hi-viz legislation.
I think the most telling quote is from one rider who is also a bus driver.


"Being a bus driver i can safely say a hi-vis vest won’t stop or even help with people that don’t look and pull out in-front of a bike, I mean the bus is 2 story’s high and bright yellow and you still get people pulling out in front of that and claiming they didn’t see it…"


What more can one say?

#6 Chris

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 01:05 pm

QUOTE(maximuspetrolhead @ Tue 10th Jan 2012, 11:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So this stupid frigging law has already been passed in Ireland and France, WTF???


If it has, no one here knows about it...

Stu, you might have some info?

#7 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 03:03 pm

It's not mandatory in Ireland until 2014, and in France it's in 2013, but only for riders with bikes over 125cc blink.gif

Some info from the MAG Ireland site....... http://www.magirelan...ctive-material/

MAG Ireland has learned that the French government recently announced mandatory retro reflective clothing for French riders of all motorcycles and trikes in excess of 125cc from January 1st 2013.

This is a worrying development as the French authorities have decided on a course of action for which there is no evidence of effectiveness, and in the face of some of the largest demonstrations ever seen in Europe by French riders in June and September of 2011.

We understand the regulations stipulate 150 square centimetres of retro reflective material (for context, this is roughly the equivalent of a strip 1 foot long by 2 inches high), although it’s unclear as to what form this will have to take. Most sources appear to suggest that an armband will suffice, although there is no official confirmation of this one way or another. Pillion passengers will also have to comply. The measure is one of a number of proposals aimed at improving road safety which include increased fines and points for a number of road traffic offences such as using a mobile phone while driving as well as a ban on speed trap location warnings of the sort commonly provided by satnav units and smart phones.

Sooooooo, somehow the powers that be seem to think that wearing a High vis armband will increase your safety on the road rotflmmfao.gif FFS ! SMIDSY.. your arms are skinny !

This is what the Euro MP's spend our hard earned taxes on.......how sad is that !

Edited by Studley Ramrod, 10 January 2012 - 03:06 pm.

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#8 jdelfino

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 07:49 pm



In Catalonia ( Barcelona-Spain) is mandatory for the whores that work the roads to wear a high visibility vest rotflmmfao.gif



I read that they were happy with the law, they say business are up with the extra visibility! clapping.gif
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#9 sidestand

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 07:58 pm

rotflmmfao.gif

Wonder if they have to use these as well ?? laugh.gif


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#10 TKH

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:21 pm

[quote name='Studley Ramrod' date='Tue 10th Jan 2012, 03:03 PM' post='230344']
It's not mandatory in Ireland until 2014, and in France it's in 2013, but only for riders with bikes over 125cc blink.gif

Soooo if you're on a moped or scooter you have a much better chance of being seen? Or are 125 and under riders expendable? ohmy.gif

#11 dapleb

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:49 pm

There are so many peeps wearing fluoro things nowadays it is more loikely to make ya blend in than stand ooot.

Almost a stamp that shows the Health and Safety brigade have got ya. smile.gif

Would love to see some PROPER studies conducted on this. Does it make you feel safer, less cautious, more loikely to have a prang? Does it increase yer chances of being seen significantly? So many questions....have no clue what the answers are though.
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#12 Johnlaas

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:51 pm

I would have thought France problem was amongest those in the group excluded by this legislation - not that I agree with it. My view is that it does not matter what you are wearing or riding with lights on etc because if the cage driver is not going too see you it will not make one bit of difference.

I would have thought regular, mandatory, sight tests would be more useful.



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#13 3vd

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:09 pm

I've got a DT125R which I used for commuting to work (7 miles of back roads). I had loads of cars (and a bus!) pull out in front of me. It was such a problem that I bought a full hi vis jacket to wear over my bike kit. Guess what,made no frigging difference at all. Cars still pulled out in front of me, perhaps it was because I was on a 125?

Some cars pull out because they don't look,
some pull out because they don't care, ' it's only a bike', ' they're going slow', 'I've got time / room' etc. etc.
Some do make a genuine mistake.

Last week a mate and I were out for a ride on the bikes, him up front with his hi vis vest on. Mr BMW car driver doesn't look and pulls out on him. No accident but could have been.

Hi Vis just doesn't work. If you cant see a 55 watt headlight what frigging difference will a bloody reflective jacket make?

ranting.gif ranting.gif ranting.gif ARGH rant over.....

#14 NZTDMGUY

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:29 pm

Here in New Zealand our idiotic Bikers Association has recommended to the Government that we also adopt the Hi Vis practice.

It has started a discussion based on SMIDSY (sorry mate I didn't see you) versus SMIDC (sorry mate, I don't care).

http://www.kiwibiker...SY-versus-SMIDC

I think the latter is more correct. No offense intended to any bus or truck drivers on this forum but I think most motorists operate on the theory that size does matter, the bigger you are the more of your rights you can impose on others. Think how often a truck or bus pulls out in front of your car, safe in the knowledge that you will avoid it.

Cheers from NZ

Edited by NZTDMGUY, 10 January 2012 - 09:39 pm.

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#15 TonyDevil

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 08:49 pm

i dont think a normal reflective jacket makes a difference

i have however noticed a difference while wearing this one....

its waterproof & breathable, has a hood that goes inside my lid to create a complete seal and the blue bits cause a lot of double-takes from other motorists
cant imagine what they mistake me for laugh.gif

QUOTE(dapleb @ Tue 10th Jan 2012, 08:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There are so many peeps wearing fluoro things nowadays it is more loikely to make ya blend in than stand ooot.
that be the problem
i'm quite happy being the odd one out, more chance of being noticed

"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
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to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips

current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, 2003 TDM900=commuter, 2005 
TDM900=unmolested.  Gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125
If a strange looking truck driver honks at you & gives you the thumbs up, its could be me  :good:


#16 TDMTAM

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 09:43 pm

QUOTE(TonyDevil @ Wed 11th Jan 2012, 08:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Evening all!

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#17 apw99

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 10:30 pm

I don't believe that bikers should be forced to wear hi-viz. The reason I say this is biking by its nature, at least for me, can be summed up with one word and that's 'freedom'. Government bodies trying to legislate against the wish of most bikers is not a positive thing as it opposes the very nature of the activity and the folks who participate. There will be a lot of energy invested in opposing this I believe. Bikers in the main hurt themselves and not others, while hoodies go around in 200bhp Honda Civics on provisional licenses causing carnage, there is something wrong with all this.
Having said that I cannot imagine that hi-viz does NOT reduce accidents. I know lots of people say that they still get cars pulling out but in reality they cannot quantify how many cars would have pulled out if they did not have the hi-viz? This is a difficult to analyze I know. It is not that drivers don't 'see' the bus/car/bike, it's that their driving habits and practices are not allowing them to physically see the object, so true hi-viz may not make a big difference in some cases. However even where the driving practice is correct it is possible to miss a bike, I have done it and I bet several more on this forum have done likewise. Another factor is drivers in the main do not 'expect' to see a bike, they look for a car. Having hi-viz and driving lights along with bright helmets increases your chance of being seen in those marginal situations and might mean that you get to have dinner with your kids 20mins later none the wiser. Educating drivers is the key to ensuring they DO expect to see a bike, which is what progressive road authorities are focusing on.
Sorry to drag this down to a serious note tongue.gif but biking for me is about the freedom and enjoyment, but keeping all my bits in the right place and doing whatever I can to increase the odds of that is paramount.

Cheers! drinks.gif
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#18 TonyDevil

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 10:55 pm

can you see me now?







"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips

current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, 2003 TDM900=commuter, 2005 
TDM900=unmolested.  Gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125
If a strange looking truck driver honks at you & gives you the thumbs up, its could be me  :good:


#19 TeDeum

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 08:48 am

[quote name='TonyDevil' date='Wed 11th Jan 2012, 10:55 PM' post='230561']
can you see me now?



Are you the one on the sofa?

Seriously though as a permanent wearer of a flouro jacket I like that suit. Details please.

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#20 TonyDevil

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 10:24 am

standard workmen style over trousers
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150687784284

the jacket is a specific model of ex-police
its the one with the 4 radio clips, adjustable cuffs and that does up high around the neck
cant find any on ebay at the moment, will keep an eye out for one
this is the guy i bought mine from http://stores.ebay.c...Police-Box-Shop

"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips

current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, 2003 TDM900=commuter, 2005 
TDM900=unmolested.  Gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125
If a strange looking truck driver honks at you & gives you the thumbs up, its could be me  :good:



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