40 replies to this topic

[oiler]

Theres a lot in that Laffin, i posted t,other day ... ride like a twat, works for me. Dos,nt neccesarily mean you need to be inconsiderate , but you do need to ride aggresively and positively. I reckon a dangerous driver or rider is one who rides like that but with no consideration or patience for others. I reckon they modulating headlights are the way to go, must sort that out.

[stu]

Daytime lights do work, just look at the difference between the cars with lights and those without when the sun is behind them. You can't see the cars without lights. Many drivers figure 'I can see fine' and never stop to think the drivers coming the other direction are looking into the sun. Anything that makes you even 1% more noticible is worthwhile.

Well, let's agree that they work in some circs. But may work against you in other. The danger is that people put them on and think that it acts like a magic cloak of invincibility as with hi-viz jackets, and then expect to be seen by everyone all the time. Seems like you can get noticed other ways too, and the human eye detects movement across the line of sight better that it does along the line of sight; lateral movement may get you better noticed (with the same caveat - in some circs).

[Daveb]

so you are saying , ride like on a giant slalom or ride as if p***ed, might get noticed, or maybe by the wrong people - evening officer,
move accross the line of site, and not along it.

I think i'll ride like it says on my tax disc then 'tear along dotted line'

Edited by Daveb, 21 November 2006 - 06:16 pm.

[Andy R]

Through experience over many years (getting on as I am!) I have come up with a theory that most drivers on the road drive to what I call, 'The Car in Front Rule'.

The Car In Front Rule is simple, 'If there's room/time for the car in front to get through. there's room/time for me.'

[Minty Hippo]

Well, let's agree that they work in some circs. But may work against you in other. The danger is that people put them on and think that it acts like a magic cloak of invincibility as with hi-viz jackets, and then expect to be seen by everyone all the time. Seems like you can get noticed other ways too, and the human eye detects movement across the line of sight better that it does along the line of sight; lateral movement may get you better noticed (with the same caveat - in some circs).

I have done my share of riding like a twat like most peeps I guess. If you don't mind the odd stack, go ahead, I've certainly had a few offs. Doesn't serve you well when commuting though. This advice I find helpful for commuting in traffic:
Assume cars don't know you're there and are always just about to do the stupid thing.
You may get overtaken on the way into work by other bikers sometimes but percentage wise you'll get there more often than them. You can't ride at 100% and expect not to crash. In traffic 50 - 75% is more like it.

[Drew48]

I have done my share of riding like a twat like most peeps I guess. If you don't mind the odd stack, go ahead, I've certainly had a few offs. Doesn't serve you well when commuting though. This advice I find helpful for commuting in traffic:
Assume cars don't know you're there and are always just about to do the stupid thing.
You may get overtaken on the way into work by other bikers sometimes but percentage wise you'll get there more often than them. You can't ride at 100% and expect not to crash. In traffic 50 - 75% is more like it.

I agree, certainly in Edinburgh ( & I'm sure that's the same for every city just that Edinburghs my commute )if you think ahead & keep your wits about you you can make quick smooth progress without having to put your feet down at the lights with the minmum of danger to yourself, I see loads of guys filtering & some use the method described & some are seriously aggressive all the time leaving no escape route for themselves ( half the time you can see they're going to box themselves in but they don't & obviously it's everybody elses fault ) Don't get me wrong I've done more than my fair share of riding like a Tw*t doing courier work etc but for a comute it's not worth it and half the time slower Hi-Vis no Hi-Vis so what theres no substiture for being aware - EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED

[TDMalcolm]

I agree, certainly in Edinburgh ( & I'm sure that's the same for every city just that Edinburghs my commute )if you think ahead & keep your wits about you you can make quick smooth progress without having to put your feet down at the lights with the minmum of danger to yourself, I see loads of guys filtering & some use the method described & some are seriously aggressive all the time leaving no escape route for themselves ( half the time you can see they're going to box themselves in but they don't & obviously it's everybody elses fault ) Don't get me wrong I've done more than my fair share of riding like a Tw*t doing courier work etc but for a comute it's not worth it and half the time slower Hi-Vis no Hi-Vis so what theres no substiture for being aware - EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED

Hi, I whole heartly agree, we have a added bonus in norfolk, drivers think that indicators are for show and don't need to work sorry my pet hate
TDMalcolm

[laughin in a windstorm]

cue dancing translucent shape of lady in front of revolving pack of tarot cards.

[wicklamulla]

cue dancing translucent shape of lady in front of revolving pack of tarot cards.

[Drew48]

cue dancing translucent shape of lady in front of revolving pack of tarot cards.

you forgot the all important word,........ NAKED

[Pict]

you forgot the all important word,........ NAKED

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[Drew48]

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[Pict]

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Edited by Pict, 23 November 2006 - 06:29 pm.

[darcym]

I think daytime headlights on motorcycles worked better before all of the cars on the road had daytime headlights. I've got amber one side and white the other on my TDM -- I think that helps because it's different. I think modulating headlights probably work well too -- I sure notice them. Some areas they're not legal yet though. But whatever makes the rider stand out from the crowd, that's what's going to make us safer. Bright vests, bright lights, clown suits, day glo colors. All of the above, imho.

The fact is that motorcycles have less than half the profile of the autos on the road. People in cages are looking for that wide profile coming toward them, not the narrow one. They're making a decision to turn before their brain has processed all the information about what is coming toward them -- they've only processed as much as they're used to processing ... i.e. "no car coming, ok to turn". The lady that almost hit you, she did "see" you, but her brain hadn't processed it yet. The fact that you scared her almost as much as she scared you -- hopefully it will in the future remind her brain to process the info before she takes action. Classic Pavlovian training, but it does work.

For our part as motorcyclists, we just have to always keep in mind that the rest of them out there Don't See Us! And ride accordingly.

[wicklamulla]

read an article recently in MCN or was it Ride? where research shows that after a certain time of day when the light fades that blue lights are far more noticable than yer ordinary white lights or indeed HID colours, suppose thats why the colour blue is reserved fer emergency vehicles.

[TDMTAM]

read an article recently in MCN or was it Ride? where research shows that after a certain time of day when the light fades that blue lights are far more noticable than yer ordinary white lights or indeed HID colours, suppose thats why the colour blue is reserved fer emergency vehicles.

The LED pilot light that I made following JBX's instructions stands out quite well because of the bright white/ blue light from it.
I kind of lik e the US ember side lights but would not like for it to be compulsory.


TAM

Edited by TDMTAM, 23 November 2006 - 08:14 pm.

[ROB1]

well a couple of point to add to the ones already brought up.A honda XR rider about 0650 hrs hi vis on which DIDNT particulary show up but what DID show up were the little blue light he had put onto each hand guard.It really made him visible where the hi vis was obscured by his headlight. IE-you could only see his lights

[oiler]

Just like to make it clear, that when i say i ride like a twat, i dont mean a complete twat. I mean an incomplete twat. Hope that clears that up.

[PICARD]

Just like to make it clear, that when i say i ride like a twat, i dont mean a complete twat. I mean an incomplete twat. Hope that clears that up.

just looked at the safe riding factsheet posted further down this forum, and i reckon the "present yourself"section is relevent here. I like to give drivers every chance of seeing me, weave a bit, get the head light in their mirror, move out into their side mirror view. approach junctions on the crown of the road, not in the gutter, all the usual stuff. me dad always said no one notices a good safe motorcyclist...still true. If all that fails and it goes tits up, present yourself in the face of the driver and vent yer spleen !!!

[laughin in a windstorm]

Motorcyclists should NOT have to wear flourescent clothing or white helmets etc. and they should not have to have lights on in daylight, neither should anyone else, the cause of accidents should be made clear and that is that a person simply never looked, the authorities should attack that problem and punish them severely enough, and not just accept it as something that happens and make the innocent person look like some kind of glowing motel sign to cover for someones incompetence.
How many times have we been riding or driving at night time through town or country roads and 'SEEN' a cyclist without lights on their bike or any kind of hi viz clothing at all, and yet you can 'SEE' them, and this happens because you are LOOKING, and how many times have you flashed your headlights or seen somebody else flash their headlights at somebody in a car or on a motorcycle who does not have their lights on at night, even when that car is in a line of traffic, but you see it because you are looking.
Just imagine if everyday on the news for a couple of weeks, motorists were hearing stories of other motorists going to prison for pulling out on someone or not stopping at red lights, yes I know this is extreme but people are only going to take notice if something is extreme, I reckon most people these days need to feel threatened or intimidated just to treat others with respect.