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#21 dapleb

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 01:43 pm

I did have a quick think about this recently when I Carpe carded a 900 rider. He mentioned ROSPA (hmm its not going well so far...an ACRONYM already) and that he had done their 'test'. He also mentioned that he was retaking the 'test' as he only got a silver star because he missed some overtaking moves. blink.gif I had always thought that overtaking was something down to individual choice and individual perception of the risks involved and the individuals risk aversion (or not) and their desired speed of travel etc?
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#22 Stuart-900

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 01:47 pm

All of what ET said. Especially...

QUOTE(E.T. @ Sat 1st Mar 2008, 10:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you don't believe me and really want to know the true answer to this debate - do the training and then take a view...no one says you have to apply it afterwards if you felt your original way of riding was better/safer, go back to that then (bet you don't)...at the end of the day its £85 and some time and commitment.


...otherwise I fail to see how anyone can develop an informed personal opinion on it.

I've done the IAM test and am currently in the middle of one of the (apparently) best observer training programmes in the country. My theory in all of this is that the only barrier that stops you learning is thinking you know it all already, and where's the harm in learning all you can?

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VFR 800 VTEC with Starcom communications system, ATC-2k digital video camera, seat, wheels, slightly different noisy engine type thing...

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#23 dapleb

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 02:12 pm

QUOTE(Stuart-900 @ Sat 1st Mar 2008, 01:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
and where's the harm in learning all you can?


What are you learning?
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If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117

Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.

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#24 Stuart-900

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 03:03 pm

QUOTE(dapleb @ Sat 1st Mar 2008, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What are you learning?

All sorts really. But from memory as a general tick-list:

What Roadcraft somewhat anorak-ishly calls "The systems of motorcycle control" (IPSGA) ie: a flexible system on how to approach, evaluate and deal with anything and everything
Effective all round observation and planning
Hazard evaluation, anticipation and prioritisation
Positioning and equalisation
Effective slow and fast speed machine control
...

Like many, I thought I had pretty much all of that sussed already, but in many areas slightly different approaches were suggested. Sometimes they work, other times I do what I did before, but at least now I have a little more knowledge to hopefully pick the potentially better option. There are no guarantee's, but it hopefully shoves the odds a little more in my favour. The more I learn, the more options I try to consider.

The observer side of things mixes all that in with constant riding ability sessions and assessments, communication skills, teaching skills, third party observation, paperwork (yawn), additional safety matters, first aid (just in case!), things like that.

For less than the cost of a new tyre, if people are at all interested I'd suggest they forget the BMW and slippers stereotypes (my observer had an R1) give it a go and make their own mind up. If one little seemingly minor observation tip helps someone spot something dangerous one day that they may have otherwise not noticed, it's all good. As a minimum they'll learn that they really are as good as they thought they were :-)
In the world of I.T. anything is possible (but only according to those that don't understand the problem)
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2007 900 with Scottoiler, Starcom communications system, Givi engine bars, Stebel Magnum horn, ATC-2k digital video camera, Fender Extender, Vario winglet, seat, wheels, noisy engine type thing...
VFR 800 VTEC with Starcom communications system, ATC-2k digital video camera, seat, wheels, slightly different noisy engine type thing...

http://www.theultimatehigh.co.uk/

#25 Telegram Boy

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 04:11 pm

What a terrific response, You've all truly gasted my flabber.

As I see it, the only negative reply was here say. I guess the guy must be an expert rider...........or does he just think he is. But to be fair maybe it wasn't the best people he went to, there is good and bad everywhere. All other replies were positive and were from those that had been there and done it.

I have just received my study kit for my part 3 (instructional ability) exam and I have a lot of work to do. I also have 6 one to one training days from my instructor in March. As soon as I can get out on my bike again properly I shall be looking at obtaining some advance riding skills. I believe there's a meet near me at Brands Hatch.

Once again thanks very much for your response.


#26 dapleb

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 05:17 pm

QUOTE(Stuart-900 @ Sat 1st Mar 2008, 02:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
(IPSGA)

Whats one of them then?

Does anyone know why you get a different coloured star for not overtaking? I still dunt understand that.


"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"

If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117

Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.

Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.

#27 Guest_E.T._*

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 05:28 pm

IPSGA

Information
Postion
Speed
Gear
Acceleration

#28 ChrisG

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 05:44 pm

QUOTE(dapleb @ Sat 1st Mar 2008, 05:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Does anyone know why you get a different coloured star for not overtaking? I still dunt understand that.



Assuming they operate the same way as the IAM...

There's lot of reasons for not taking an overtake, some good and some bad

eg.
there was a gateway at the side of the road and you couldn't tell if it was a turning or not
it was a nice sunny day and you were having a nice relaxed ride at the same speed as the car
you didn't percieve it as safe as you didn't think you'd get past and back in lane quicly enough not to scare an oncomming vehicle
low sun was impeding your visibility

vs.
you were in the wrong position on the road so didn't see the overtake opportunity until it was too late
you were in the in the wrong gear so couldn't accelerate quickly enough
you were too close behind a vehicle so couldn't see round it
you weren't paying enough attention to the road to notice there was a straight comming up

The observer/examiner is going to be quite happy with the former, which are about not wanting to take an opportunity you've seen, but you'd get marked down for the latter, which are things we've all done.

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post-1-1152402501.jpgpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif


#29 ChrisG

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 05:49 pm

By the way if anyone around the Hampshire/Berkshire area is interested, the IAM lot I'm with will be meeting in Wokingham on Sunday 16 March at 9:30, I'm pretty sure they still let you have an observed ride before deciding if you want to join or not. As several people above have pointed it out's not about old blokes on BMW's, this time of year there'll probably be somewhere around 150-200 bikes there ranging from goldwings to R1's/Blades/RSV100/etc.

1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now :(
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.

post-1-1152402501.jpgpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif


#30 Saga Lout

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 06:07 pm

QUOTE(ChrisG @ Sat 1st Mar 2008, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Funny you should mention that...

I had a go on a WR250 at the NEC bike show. They had a little track set up in the woods and just let you get one with it. Great fun. The Yamaha school offer a 10% discount to Yamaha owners and do a one day course not far from me too, I'm very tempted.

That sounds like fun and I'd be up for that...haven't ridden off road for years good.gif
Now on 9er number 2 .....

#31 Sparky

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 06:42 pm

Yeah, I fancy a go at the off-road thing meself - should be great fun! cool.gif

Anyone recommend any venues/organisations up in t'north? laugh.gif
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#32 dapleb

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 06:48 pm

QUOTE(ChrisG @ Sat 1st Mar 2008, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There's lot of reasons for not taking an overtake, some good and some bad


ok ta Chris. smile.gif
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"

If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117

Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.

Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.

#33 johnschmidt

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 07:15 pm

I believe the principles of the system of car control, ie advanced driving, apply just the same to motor cycling, with possibly slight variations. So if you've had the car courses, you can also use what you've learnt there on motor bikes. I was in the fortunate position where my employer paid for my advanced car driving courses. That lasted for six weeks. The first two weeks consisted of them telling you how crap you were as a driver, and then they started building from there, so by the finish, you weren't bad. Then you had regular refresher courses every couple of years to keep you on your toes.
Although I never had an advanced motor bike course, I find that I can apply most of what I learnt in the cars to the bikes as well.
However, as someone said earlier, don't assume that, as you've had 8 or 10 hours instruction, you know it all. Every little helps, but remember, 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'
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#34 stu

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 11:12 am

I'd support Mr Schmidt - most of the advanced stuff is about advanced thinking, which is not vehicle specific. You have more options for positioning on a bike, but the principles are the same. You are assumed to have adequate vehicle control. It's also possible to take the test in a Commercial vehicle, and the IAM give a little blue badge for that.
I've heard IAM compared with a RoSPA Silver pass, but if you want more precise analysis of your ability, there is a Special Assessment they offer that gives a percentage result.
Whatever you do, it's only a step further along the continuum of learning. Even those who decry 'training' usually applaud 'experience' and that's just practical learning.
IMHO most crashes are due to complacency and lack of concentration. A decent trainer will get you to focus on these, and with the right attitude to your own vulnerability you'll stay focused afterwards. Advanced riders still crash ...... ye cannae change the laws o' physics. rolleyes.gif

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#35 Guest_E.T._*

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 05:51 pm

QUOTE(stu @ Mon 3rd Mar 2008, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Advanced riders still crash ...... ye cannae change the laws o' physics. rolleyes.gif


that's true, I've crashed my bike over in the shed before now...before I even go on the bugga...now that really is an advanced crash


#36 Geordie Guy

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 08:00 pm

Joined IAM at the NEC bike show last year.

Ive been doing the training with Wigan Branch.

Can thoroughly recommend it, Learning loads and....

it's a good excuse to get out for a ride on a Sunday Morning. good.gif

Cheers, Ivan
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#37 Phil P

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 04:00 pm

My experience mirrors much of what's been said here already.

I had a spell of about 20years away from bikes. I signed up for a basic assessment by the local IAM group at a show shortly after I returned to motorcycling and signed up for the "Skills for Life" programme as a result. It's been a brilliant experience, I've learnt a great deal and enjoy my riding more as a result - just as they predicted when I did the first assessed ride.


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#38 Geordie Guy

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 06:16 pm

I have just passed the IAM test this morning.

Weather was bad, rainy and very windy.

Had a good run and with every IAM run learned a lot off the examiner.

Can deffinately reccomend it.
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#39 Stuart-900

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 07:03 pm

QUOTE(Geordie Guy @ Sat 29th Mar 2008, 06:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have just passed the IAM test this morning.


Congratulations good.gif
In the world of I.T. anything is possible (but only according to those that don't understand the problem)
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2007 900 with Scottoiler, Starcom communications system, Givi engine bars, Stebel Magnum horn, ATC-2k digital video camera, Fender Extender, Vario winglet, seat, wheels, noisy engine type thing...
VFR 800 VTEC with Starcom communications system, ATC-2k digital video camera, seat, wheels, slightly different noisy engine type thing...

http://www.theultimatehigh.co.uk/

#40 Guest_E.T._*

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 07:32 pm

Yea!!!! Congratulations and Celebrations, we'll sing and dance forever and a day etc etc


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