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Usage of "Blues and Twos"


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#1 Difflock

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 01:06 pm

cool.gif OK.
On my commute home northbound on the M6 last night, a traffic cop in one of the new Volvos joined the motorway, travelling at around 65 mph or so.
I passed him in the outside lane, then returned to the middle lane like a good boy (inside lane full of wagons etc.).

The Volvo then sped up into the now open outside lane. Bowing to the officer's better judgement I follwed at a respectable distance. Put it this way, had it not been a police car in front of me, the huge gap would have been filled with around 4 or 5 cars rolleyes.gif

So, what speed was he doing? Around 100 mph is what! yahoo.gif

Devil's Advocate - Just curious as to how making progress like this can be justified without the use of sirens and lights?

I'm not complaining - I didn't take the piss by sticking to his bumper and we both got on with our journeys good.gif

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#2 andyj

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 01:37 pm

It can't be justified. Just try proving he was doing it without the lights.
Another boring night & I'm feeling pissed....

#3 Guest_Emmett_*

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 01:42 pm

We all do that on the motorway, even better when you're pretty sure you won't get nicked, but if he was pulled in and you passed him at a ton, would he have let you off? I don't think so.

#4 Difflock

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 02:06 pm

QUOTE(Emmett @ Thu 28th Sep 2006, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
but if he was pulled in and you passed him at a ton, would he have let you off? I don't think so.


Hehe, neither do I, Emmett.

Proving he was doing it without the lights? Well there was plenty of witnesses. Contacting them could be a problem...

Like I said I just wondered why he was travelling in excess of the limit if he wasn't on an emergency.
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#5 andyj

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 02:09 pm

Late for dinner?
Another boring night & I'm feeling pissed....

#6 TonyDevil

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 02:16 pm

most likely end of shift

"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips

current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, 2003 TDM900=commuter, 2005 
TDM900=unmolested.  Gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125
If a strange looking truck driver honks at you & gives you the thumbs up, its could be me  :good:


#7 Landy

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 02:22 pm

As a Blue light trained advanced driver (Paramedic), legally it is up to the drivers discretion! You do not need to use any lights or sirens to be able to claim exemption from the speed limit rules, but and its a big but (Does my bum look big in this? blink.gif ) you would be held responsible for any accident considered to be caused by your actions not matter how stupid the other driver may have been! Mind you the same point is valid even if you are using all your lights and noise.
I have may years experience of blue light driving and you can some times make better progress without blue lights, especially on rural roads.
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#8 duibhce Kaelann

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 03:37 pm

QUOTE(Andy K @ Thu 28th Sep 2006, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As a Blue light trained advanced driver (Paramedic), legally it is up to the drivers discretion! You do not need to use any lights or sirens to be able to claim exemption from the speed limit rules, but and its a big but (Does my bum look big in this? blink.gif ) you would be held responsible for any accident considered to be caused by your actions not matter how stupid the other driver may have been! Mind you the same point is valid even if you are using all your lights and noise.
I have may years experience of blue light driving and you can some times make better progress without blue lights, especially on rural roads.


another big butt ... errr but... is that you need to be on route to an emergency that reqiures urgency. At least in Jolly ol' Belgium. And the list of emergencies that allow for exemption is very strict.
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#9 Andy R

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 03:41 pm

I suppose, as the most qualified person to answer this I should post. OK, here goes;

The Road Traffic Act 1988 gives a blanket exemption to Police vehicles used for 'Police Purposes'. Forget all else you have read in the Daily Mail.

Secondly, when using blue lights on the motorway we only use front blues and flashing headlights. This is so the traffic behind is not blinded or distracted by the lights. Let's face it, the traffic behind you doesn't need to act, so don't need to know you are on blues.

Agree with the Paramedic. All of this is subject to the discretion of the driver AND is subject to scrutiny if it all goes wrong.

All Police drivers on Motorways are Police Trained Advanced Drivers, and are more than capable of driving at that speed and much more in a safe manner.

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#10 Guest_Emmett_*

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 03:57 pm

Andy I agree that police should be allowed to exceed legal speed limits while performing their police duties, I don't think that it needs justification in any way. I do think that saying they are capable of driving/riding safely at high speeds is counter productive, I currently have a RoSPA bronze certificate, so I am probably more capable than some riders/drivers at high speed, it doesn't give me the right, regardless of my abilities, to exceed speed limits.

I believe that the police have that right with good reason, and I don't question their abilities, I just don't think they should be used to justify their right to exceed speed limits.

#11 Readmarx

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 04:24 pm

I've seen that before on MWays where the cars pull onto the MWay then get up some speed and disappear, then you'll come across them a few miles further on lurking in the inside lane between trucks/caravans waiting to pounce on the unwary good.gif
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#12 TonyDevil

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 04:32 pm

doing a lot of miles means i regularly follow plod on the motorway both on bike and in car, they either sit there at 60mph which appears to minimise the bottle neck or they are going 80-100 with the rest of the traffic.
i do just what you did and sit behind them at a discrete distance, its amazing how many people pull out on you when doing that tho.
obviously paying to much attention to the hiviz car with blue lights in front and not enough to the others coming up behind.

<rant>
i hope they are more capable than the numpty that yanked my chain the other night.
told me off for over taking him, while i was within the speed limit and not breaking any road rules on a perfectly legal bike while he was turning right off of a roundabout which he entered from the left hand lane.
i've always been perfectly courteous when pulled over in the past, but he pissed me off.
if i had been thinking straight and not amazed/fuming i'd have taken the guys number and complained.
sorry andy, not getting at you or any other ocifer on here, just having a rant about the minority.
</rant>

"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips

current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, 2003 TDM900=commuter, 2005 
TDM900=unmolested.  Gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125
If a strange looking truck driver honks at you & gives you the thumbs up, its could be me  :good:


#13 stu

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 04:44 pm

QUOTE(Emmett @ Thu 28th Sep 2006, 04:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I currently have a RoSPA bronze certificate, so I am probably more capable than some riders/drivers at high speed, it doesn't give me the right, regardless of my abilities, to exceed speed limits.


RoSPA Bronze = just enough knowledge to be dangerous tongue.gif

(JK wink.gif )




Andy R - how do you account for the increasing number of cop collisions? sad.gif

Stu
 


#14 Andy R

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 08:11 pm

Andy R - how do you account for the increasing number of cop collisions? sad.gif


1. The lack of training given to the average officer due to cost cutting.

2. A change in the definition of what is counted as a POLACC (Police Accident).


I'lll give you a couple of examples;

A few years ago someone came into the front counter and said, " One of your cars has just driven the other way and as it did a small stonewas thrown up which has chipped my windscreen"

This was recorded and investigated as a POLACC!!!

Many years ago (Before I was an advanced driver) I reversed into a post that had been painted black. It was dark at the time. The collision speed was about 2 mph.

This was on private property and no damage was caused to the post, although a small crease was caused in the hatchback of the car.

This by legal definition is not a road traffic accident. Yet it was recorded as a POLACC and I was investigated.

QUOTE(Emmett @ Thu 28th Sep 2006, 04:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I do think that saying they are capable of driving/riding safely at high speeds is counter productive, I currently have a RoSPA bronze certificate, so I am probably more capable than some riders/drivers at high speed, it doesn't give me the right, regardless of my abilities, to exceed speed limits.

I believe that the police have that right with good reason, and I don't question their abilities, I just don't think they should be used to justify their right to exceed speed limits.


I agree with you.

What you have to realise though is that the Advanced Driving/Riding courses are conducted at (very) high speed and are well beyond the standard required for RoSPA Gold.

The idea behind this is to teach you the limits of your abilities and those of the vehicle. That way, when you do have to break the speed limit on the way to an emergency you can do so safely.
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#15 Guest_andy3?_*

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 09:12 pm

You guys are lucky to see as police car - I personally would rather see more as as each year comes around the standard of driving gets worse. Today nearly got wiped out by some little sh*t on a wee 4 stroke trail bike ranting.gif who ran a red light ( as in I was half way across the junction and had to break heavily while turning right ) he had no number plate no crash helmet , reported to the police & was told that even if they's found him using the queens highway they were not alowed to persue him . So that would have been all right then if he'd skittled me and the Suzuki , mind you I'd just finished work at the Edinburgh Royal Infimary ( and was within sight of the casualty dept ) so wouldn't have had to wait long for help blink.gif

Edited by andy3?, 28 September 2006 - 09:14 pm.


#16 stu

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 09:52 am

QUOTE(Andy R @ Thu 28th Sep 2006, 08:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Andy R - how do you account for the increasing number of cop collisions? sad.gif
1. The lack of training given to the average officer due to cost cutting.

2. A change in the definition of what is counted as a POLACC (Police Accident).

<snip>

What you have to realise though is that the Advanced Driving/Riding courses are conducted at (very) high speed and are well beyond the standard required for RoSPA Gold.

The idea behind this is to teach you the limits of your abilities and those of the vehicle. That way, when you do have to break the speed limit on the way to an emergency you can do so safely.


Well, I meant an increase in KSI's, specifically, athough I can't lay my hands on the data.

Isn't it true tho that to maintain your high-speed abilities you have to stay current?
Traffpol I know said he aimed to get above the ton regularly to keep in practice. wink.gif

Stu
 


#17 Andy R

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 10:23 am

QUOTE(stu @ Fri 29th Sep 2006, 10:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, I meant an increase in KSI's, specifically, athough I can't lay my hands on the data.

Isn't it true tho that to maintain your high-speed abilities you have to stay current?
Traffpol I know said he aimed to get above the ton regularly to keep in practice. wink.gif


Yes, you have to practice. This is much more regulated now though, and I would never do it in my own car or on the TDM.
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#18 Guest_Emmett_*

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 10:31 am

I don't wanna incriminate you Andy, but do you break the speed limit on your TDM? I know alot of people here do.





Not me, obviously.







Or anyone else I know.

#19 MarkyMark

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 10:42 am

Yes - you can be trained and improve awareness and observation. But it has its limits.

I saw a TV program about training police drivers. It seemed that the instructor did little more than say go faster - but be careful. I wreckon all they were doing was lulling the poor trainee into a false sense of security.

I agree that it is necessary to make rapid progress to attend an emergency, but lets not fool ourselves into believeing the risks are not greatly increased. You just need to weigh them up against the risk of arriving a couple of minutes later and finding a dead casualty, or a missing perpetrator.

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#20 TonyDevil

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 11:49 am

QUOTE(Emmett @ Fri 29th Sep 2006, 11:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't wanna incriminate you Andy, but do you break the speed limit on your TDM? I know alot of people here do.

a direct question with potential consequences is mostly likely gonna get a politicians response
he probably didn't inhale tongue.gif

"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips

current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, 2003 TDM900=commuter, 2005 
TDM900=unmolested.  Gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125
If a strange looking truck driver honks at you & gives you the thumbs up, its could be me  :good:



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