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Another Loose Sprocket Nut


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#21 Guest_GuyGraham_*

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 07:25 pm

QUOTE(ChrisG @ Tue 12th Jun 2007, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My main worry is torquing it up to 70NM, if the thread is already damaged there's presumably going to be a risk of it jumping a thread, will it still need to go that tight if I've got locktite everywhere? I've ordered 2 new nuts from Fowlers from just in case I do trash one by overtorquing it.



Hard to say, although when I came to change my DRZ front sprocket I reckon it could have done without the nut altogetherh and not budged.

As the shaft is case hardened its more than likely just damaged the threads in the 'soft' nut.
I afraid its a case of suck it and see.

#22 Guinness

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 07:36 pm

QUOTE(ChrisG @ Tue 12th Jun 2007, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
-//- and I bet it pisses down with rain on Sunday
yes...

unless you live very near the south coast...
edit: strike that... wont stay dry anywhere in UK on sunday...
(but that still long way to go)

Edited by Guinness, 12 June 2007 - 07:44 pm.
checked other forecasting models

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#23 ChrisG

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 07:40 pm

QUOTE(GuyGraham @ Tue 12th Jun 2007, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As the shaft is case hardened its more than likely just damaged the threads in the 'soft' nut.
I afraid its a case of suck it and see.


It must have damaged the shaft slightly, as the nut will turn but won't come off. I'm gonna cut it off rather than risk damaging the threads further by trying to pull it off.


QUOTE(Guinness @ Tue 12th Jun 2007, 08:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
yes...


Bugger

BBC 5 day forcast is sunny intervals on Friday and light showers on Saturday, so you can garentee that won't be what the weathers like.

Edited by ChrisG, 12 June 2007 - 07:42 pm.

1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now :(
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.

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#24 Guinness

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 07:49 pm

might be if ya ride down to Cornwall on saturday.
but elsewhere... "light"? yeah, if ya catch the edge of the shower
I'm an insomniac agnostic dyslexic. I lay awake at night and wonder if there really is a dog.

yamaha : xv535/92-92 | red TDM850/92-05 | silver TDM900A/05-

get them here

#25 TonyDevil

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 10:14 am

GG, i'm planning on getting the sprocket nut welded on this evening, but still not convinced. doubtfull.gif

the output shaft thread is obviously slightly damaged from the previous problems
i've used 638 on the nut
do you reckon this will be enough to hold it on?

if this holds it on and i just have to use a bit of locktite at each C&S change i'm not fussed
if i weld now its gotta be rebuilt later, which i dont really have the space or knowledge to do istupid.gif

help.gif ooooooh to be decisive unsure.gif


isurrender.gif

"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips

current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, 2003 TDM900=commuter, 2005 
TDM900=unmolested.  Gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125
If a strange looking truck driver honks at you & gives you the thumbs up, its could be me  :good:


#26 Guest_Emmett_*

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 10:23 am

Have you had a chance to try yer new enjin?

#27 TonyDevil

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 10:29 am

QUOTE(Emmett @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Have you had a chance to try yer new enjin?

nope

its still sat on the back seat of the car, never take an engine out before
also my garage has a dirt floor and no power or lighting so i'm kinda relying on using my mates garage and his time

havent got time to change it and test it before the RTT sad.gif

"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips

current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, 2003 TDM900=commuter, 2005 
TDM900=unmolested.  Gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125
If a strange looking truck driver honks at you & gives you the thumbs up, its could be me  :good:


#28 Drew48

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 11:00 am

QUOTE(Toneski @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
nope

its still sat on the back seat of the car, never take an engine out before
also my garage has a dirt floor and no power or lighting so i'm kinda relying on using my mates garage and his time

havent got time to change it and test it before the RTT sad.gif



S'easy but make sure you take your time and KNOW where everything goes, plastic tubs are good for the bolts and a wee camera to take photo's at each stage of removal , I didn't do that with my XT when I stripped it down and what a pain in the arse it was to put back together rolleyes.gif

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#29 Guest_GuyGraham_*

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 12:04 pm

QUOTE(Toneski @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
GG, i'm planning on getting the sprocket nut welded on this evening, but still not convinced. doubtfull.gif

the output shaft thread is obviously slightly damaged from the previous problems
i've used 638 on the nut
do you reckon this will be enough to hold it on?

if this holds it on and i just have to use a bit of locktite at each C&S change i'm not fussed
if i weld now its gotta be rebuilt later, which i dont really have the space or knowledge to do istupid.gif

help.gif ooooooh to be decisive unsure.gif
isurrender.gif



the problem sounds to me to be not the nut loosening, but loss of clamping presure due to wear from the roockin gof the sprocket back and forth on the shaft.
Just applying loctite to the nut will not stop this as the nut is not moving
You need to immobilze the sporcoket to prevent the wear on the clamping faces and hence loss of clamping pressure applied by the nut. This will require loctite on the splines on the shaft

#30 TonyDevil

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 12:06 pm

thnx folks

gonna leave the weld for now, can always do that later
lets see if the locktite does the job

"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips

current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, 2003 TDM900=commuter, 2005 
TDM900=unmolested.  Gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125
If a strange looking truck driver honks at you & gives you the thumbs up, its could be me  :good:


#31 Chris TDM

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 01:28 pm

with out removing the sprocket cover is there any signs of a loose nut?
Ridgeway mcc

GSF400
ER500
TDM850
CBR1100xx

But only one working at a time!!

#32 TonyDevil

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 01:30 pm

QUOTE(Chris TDM @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 02:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
with out removing the sprocket cover is there any signs of a loose nut?

nope, only when the sprocket falls off

not enough space to put your finger in from the side or underneath so cover has to come off

"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips

current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, 2003 TDM900=commuter, 2005 
TDM900=unmolested.  Gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125
If a strange looking truck driver honks at you & gives you the thumbs up, its could be me  :good:


#33 Chris TDM

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 01:42 pm

QUOTE(Toneski @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 02:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
nope, only when the sprocket falls off

not enough space to put your finger in from the side or underneath so cover has to come off


balls, i better go and give it the once over then.
Ridgeway mcc

GSF400
ER500
TDM850
CBR1100xx

But only one working at a time!!

#34 Walt_M.

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 01:42 pm

Just thinking about welding on the output shaft, do you think there is a chance you will damage the heat treatment of the shaft and lead to it breaking off? Don't think I would risk it. Is the sprocket too thin causing the nut to thread on past most of the threads on the shaft? If so, can you add shims behind the sprocket without it getting too much out of line with the rear?

#35 TonyDevil

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 02:36 pm

QUOTE(Walt_M. @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just thinking about welding on the output shaft, do you think there is a chance you will damage the heat treatment of the shaft and lead to it breaking off? Don't think I would risk it. Is the sprocket too thin causing the nut to thread on past most of the threads on the shaft? If so, can you add shims behind the sprocket without it getting too much out of line with the rear?

heat transfer could be a problem, but it would only need a couple of small spots (or so i'm told) so should be ok.
the sprocket is supposedly the same dimensions as standard, but i've gone back to using yammie front sprocket
you could probably pad it out, but i dont see how that would help, better off having a 2nd washer on the outside
there isnt enough room for a 2nd nut tho sad.gif

"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips

current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, 2003 TDM900=commuter, 2005 
TDM900=unmolested.  Gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125
If a strange looking truck driver honks at you & gives you the thumbs up, its could be me  :good:


#36 Guest_GuyGraham_*

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 05:29 pm

QUOTE(Chris TDM @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
balls, i better go and give it the once over then.



Only seems to affect mkI's (correct?) and you have a MkII

QUOTE(Walt_M. @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just thinking about welding on the output shaft, do you think there is a chance you will damage the heat treatment of the shaft and lead to it breaking off? Don't think I would risk it. Is the sprocket too thin causing the nut to thread on past most of the threads on the shaft? If so, can you add shims behind the sprocket without it getting too much out of line with the rear?



the shaft will be case hardened and if you weld the nut to the sprocket you are nowhere near the shaft.
welding the nut to the sprocket means the nut can't come off.

#37 wicklamulla

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 05:37 pm

QUOTE(GuyGraham @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 06:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Only seems to affect mkI's (correct?) and you have a MkII
the shaft will be case hardened and if you weld the nut to the sprocket you are nowhere near the shaft.
welding the nut to the sprocket means the nut can't come off.



that sounds like its going to simplify tings as surely then it's just a case of tasking a cutting disc to the nut and sprocket to remove them ??

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engine changed july 2007 on a dyno run it made 79.1BHP / Torque 59.9Had a brief flirtation with a 1999 MKIIa but it blew an exaust valve on the M5 so was sold on to be repaired.

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#38 ChrisG

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 06:26 pm

If the problem is the sprocket wobbling about and wearing then welding the sprocket to the nut probably makes more sense than welding the nut to the shaft. I'm gonna go with GG's idea and threadlock everything.

2 new sprocket nuts and washers waiting for me when I got home, not bad service from Fowlers, I only phoned them yesterday. That's Saturday booke up then.


Who else has had this problem? Tony and I are both on Mk1's, anyone had it on a Mk2?
1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now :(
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.

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#39 Guest_GuyGraham_*

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 06:36 pm

QUOTE(ChrisG @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I
Who else has had this problem? Tony and I are both on Mk1's, anyone had it on a Mk2?



2 MkII's and I've not had this problem

Edited by GuyGraham, 13 June 2007 - 06:36 pm.


#40 TonyDevil

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 09:02 pm

the thread on my output shaft is already damaged from when the sprocket jumped the first time
when it came loose in Germany it didnt turn
it just pulled over the thread, even tho it was torqued correctly

welding the nut to the sprocket wont help in my case, coz it would just pull the sprocket off with it
sounds like this is what has happened to chrisg too
locktite or welding nut to shaft are only choices other than a rebuild

"Never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
My TDM :
Black 1991 850 MK1, 160k+ miles(ish, best guess really, gave up trying to keep count after 3rd set of clocks and 3rd engine), PilotRoad2 tyres, custom stubby exhaust system, bluespot calipers & goodridge braided hoses with dunlopads, maxton forks, Ohlins shock, kedo handguards, stainless TDM grill, Scottoiler with lubetube & dual nozzle thingy, Givi Wingrack2 with E45 & 2xE36s, renntec crash bars, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider2, Optimate IIIsp, Bagster tank cover, anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led spotlights, heated grips, new braided lines and rear caliper that actually has bleed nipples
Silver-ish 2003 900, 70k miles, PilotRoad3 front tyre (new@65k) & PR2 rear(new at 69k), Renthal 755 bars with KTM handguards, oxford unheated grips, power commander 3usb, scorpion titanium exhausts, standard screen with vario winglet thingy, stainless grill, oem centre stand, bagster tank cover, givi monokey topplate mounted on grabrail with V46 topbox, Givi PL pannier rails with E21s, crash bungs, mirror extender thingys, Halfords Advanced Laser Blue brillance bulbs, 21w led spotlights, touring scottoiler with leehenty dual nozzle, Autocom with blueteeth & PMR radio, TomTom Rider3 Urban, winter style anti-dazzle coating
to fit : led brake light strip, replacement heated grips

current rides : TDM850 3vd/mk1=tourer&scratcher, TRX850=weekend twisty toy, 2003 TDM900=commuter, 2005 
TDM900=unmolested.  Gone but not forgotton : XTZ750=overland touring toy, GS500e, GS125
If a strange looking truck driver honks at you & gives you the thumbs up, its could be me  :good:



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