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#41 Pict

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 08:05 pm

QUOTE(TDMTAM @ Sun 3rd Jun 2007, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
(back to topic)
lack of orginisation more paperwork & they are checking the trakers in the van agianst timesheet & Q any discrepencies. Time to go for me!

I've worked in industry, the civil service and the NHS, my brother is in electronics, and I have friends in teaching, the aerospace industry, catering management .......
Everywhere, private or public sector, it's the same - metrication, statistics, risk management, health & safety and the rest. Its like a disease, reducing output and stressing the workforce. I've had serious issues with deciding whether to bother getting back in the swim since I was laid off last year, so Wicky's message and all the responses in this thread have prompted me to take a fresh look and change direction, though I'll have to think hard about what and where. Life's for living.

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#42 gazman

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 11:11 pm

QUOTE(wicklamulla @ Fri 1st Jun 2007, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...Last year i had a terrible time of it workwise and this year started off better (till march anyway) but now i'm fookin having noightmares about the job/stats/managers/etc...

I know that feeling, Wicky. Who said, "Life's a bitch and then you die..."?

Having a holiday's a great idea - to break the cycle. A chance to think and when you're ready, to talk. To find a fresh perspective on all the sh1t. There's no magic "cure" or solution to it all but I know you were great help to me in the past over my various health issues.

I'll be in Applecross this w/e and i'll be thinking of you. Remember the Carpe trip there? God you made us laugh!

So thank you Wicky. Be strong and good luck.


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#43 Pict

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 07:04 am

Topical note off Yahoo.com today. Take it easy folks!

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#44 Landy

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 10:03 am

I also can totally sympathise with Wicky's situation, after over 16 years in the NHS the stress and being relentlessly buggered about and six months off with stress and depression, I finally decided that my health and sanity was more important to me and my family than my input to the NHS. It was a very hard decision to take but I jacked it in and I am currently reassessing my options. In fact the reason I am late joining in on this thread is that I have been away this weekend working as one of the course paramedic's at Brands Hatch, I can mix my love of bikes and utilize my medical skills in an atmosphere refreshingly free of bullshit and politics, I want more.

Wick please do not feel that you need to rush back after your holiday. Talk to your GP, take all the time you need, there is no stigma in getting signed off with stress and it should help to get thing sorted at work.
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#45 Mitch

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 10:28 am

Landy, have you considered Snetterton as well, I do my marshalling there and you can never get enough of both. Local too.

Sorry to go off thread.

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#46 Pict

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 11:08 am

QUOTE(avonne @ Mon 4th Jun 2007, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry to go off thread.

Not off thread since Wicky's note has brought out a lot of experiences and I think helped in all kinds of ways.

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#47 muddy

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 03:23 pm

QUOTE(Pict @ Sun 3rd Jun 2007, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<snip>
Everywhere, private or public sector, it's the same - metrication, statistics, risk management, health & safety and the rest. Its like a disease, reducing output and stressing the workforce. I've had serious issues with deciding whether to bother getting back in the swim since I was laid off last year, so Wicky's message and all the responses in this thread have prompted me to take a fresh look and change direction, though I'll have to think hard about what and where. Life's for living.


I so agree with you here, although I can only talk about the NHS, i've heard that it's endemic. It's like a constant barrage: stats, targets, mandatory training, policy changes, indecipherable policies, etc. Mostly, I would say, driven by the PC zealots and control freaks in government. Like diarrhoea it all comes dripping down from top to bottom (or should that be bottom to bottom) and, if you complain, middle managers will say 'i'm only carrying out orders'. Sound familiar doesn't it!

I was off for 3 months with stress due all these factors and another common one in the NHS: bullying.

The net result is that these mind-numbingly, STUPID, faceless people extract almost all available job satisfaction. Why? Because in the end you're painting by numbers. All initiative and flexibility is ferboten for the greater good of the regime.

I've been off work now for about 6 weeks having finished working as a bank nurse for a team in central London. And I'm frightened of getting back into it all again. I'm putting it off every day and my funds are gradually ebbing away.

My saving grace is that I have a small plot of land that I bought a few years ago (instead of another couple of ISA's) that I plan to build a little shack on. My aim is to grow my own food and live frugally for 6 months of the year, and to spend winter back in the UK for work. Well a man has gotta have some dreams aint he.

I'm amazed at this thread. I would never have thought that, on this little forum, there'd be so many affected by this. Astounding. Anyhow your'e not alone Wicky.

Edited by muddy, 04 June 2007 - 03:30 pm.

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#48 dbninja

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 05:09 pm

I'm amazed at this thread. I would never have thought that, on this little forum, there'd be so many affected by this. Astounding. Anyhow your'e not alone Wicky.
[/quote]



i'm not amazed to be honest, like it has been said earlier, anyone who buys a TDM has more than likely "been round the houses" in many ways... age the average TDMer is over 40 so will have 20+ years work experience and will have held several jobs. i reckon most TDMers have reached a point in their lives where they have decided its time to "live a while longer" they dont need 200mph motorcycles to get their thrills...... and they dont need a shit load of stress at work to make emselfs ill either... most 40 somethings (meself included)


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#49 muddy

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 05:30 pm

QUOTE(dbninja @ Mon 4th Jun 2007, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<snip> i reckon most TDMers have reached a point in their lives where they have decided its time to "live a while longer" they dont need 200mph motorcycles to get their thrills...... and they dont need a shit load of stress at work to make emselfs ill either... most 40 somethings (meself included)
BECAME MIDDLE AGED but didnt spot the change-over good.gif good.gif good.gif
dbn


Amen to that. I don't know about others here, but I find that the older I get the more I want to back away from all the distractions and superficiality of current society. If I could afford it I'd bugger off back to my little plot in France, do all the little projects on the land that I've planned and while away the hours in my hammock with a good book

Edited by muddy, 04 June 2007 - 05:30 pm.

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#50 Pict

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 05:38 pm

QUOTE(muddy @ Mon 4th Jun 2007, 04:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can only talk about the NHS........................
I was off for 3 months with stress due all these factors and another common one in the NHS: bullying.

Industry (perhaps especially pharmaceuticals) has a nasty reputation, but I can honestly say that in 20 years there I never saw as bad management, lack of initiative, selfishness, bullying, wastage of people and resources and sheer stupidity as in 3 years with the NHS. It was appalling - like working under a Victorian taskmaster and so frustrating to see so much power wielded by duff managers who'd never get a job in the outside world.

As for this thread, I think what's been revealed is what makes Carpe a wee bit different - and why I spend so much freakin' time here! yahoo.gif

Hope Wicky IS having a wind-down.

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#51 dapleb

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 05:47 pm

QUOTE(Pict @ Mon 4th Jun 2007, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
(perhaps especially pharmaceuticals)


Who did you work for Pict? I spent most of my time working for Pharma's. Worked for THE BEST bunch of people ever and also THE WORST. One thing is for sure, Pharmas have a bad rep for redundancy, thats partly the nature of the bidness though.
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#52 poldark

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 05:54 pm

QUOTE(muddy @ Mon 4th Jun 2007, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Amen to that. I don't know about others here, but I find that the older I get the more I want to back away from all the distractions and superficiality of current society. If I could afford it I'd bugger off back to my little plot in France, do all the little projects on the land that I've planned and while away the hours in my hammock with a good book



My plan is pretty similar, except in Italy, just not sure I can get through the next 5 years till my youngest turns 18 and we can bugger off. Like many, from the sounds of it, I'm late 40s and spent last 10 years in sales for Telecomms company.

The continuous pressure on performance and stupid targets, especially when they change them after the event to screw you out of any bonus, has just built up over time and I need to find something else now. It'd be alright if I didn't give a toss, but wanting to do a good job just means you take it all personally when you fail for reasons completely out of your hands.

Seems the no.1 management style these days is telling people they're all crap and living on borrowed time.

Think I need to suggest I "need a new challenge" and find something less pressured and never mind the reduced salary, can't really afford to leave as I'm luckily in a final salary pension, but need those 5 extra years.

Anyway it's reassuring to know that so many others have the same feelings and willing to share them on here, I only hope that by doing so Wicky is reassured he's not alone and the problem isn't him. Not sure that helps much but maybe after a break he can make whatever decision he thinks best.
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#53 PICARD

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 06:18 pm

As for this thread, I think what's been revealed is what makes Carpe a wee bit different - and why I spend so much freakin' time here! yahoo.gif

Hope Wicky IS having a wind-down.
[/quote]


good.gif good.gif Right on to that Pict.
Just cottoned on to this thread, probly because when I first saw the title, it being Wicky, I thought a) drama......b) wind up, and being on holiday prep mode, gave it a miss........How wrong !!
Wow it's scary!!.....but been there and done that I'm afraid !!
Took pension and a hand shake....(thats a different hand shake to Wicky's earlier proposal !!.....although that helped on the quiet !!) and got back into the fray. If I start feeling stressed now I just sing "sweet child of mine" just a little louder !!
No help whatsoever but, hey , it works for me......stuff em !
Get back here soon Wicky we're missing ya !!
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Posted 04 June 2007 - 07:00 pm

go and have a wank it works wonders good.gif

#55 Pict

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 07:03 pm

QUOTE(dapleb @ Mon 4th Jun 2007, 06:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Who did you work for Pict? I spent most of my time working for Pharma's. Worked for THE BEST bunch of people ever and also THE WORST. One thing is for sure, Pharmas have a bad rep for redundancy, thats partly the nature of the bidness though.

Worked for Roche for the best part of 20 years, with a great team and an exciting career till the money men decided that they had to close a centre to make a saving(??) and please the shareholders, so 300+ were laid off. So I worked under contract to various others - Pfizer, GSK, Astra-Zeneca, Bayer and others., as well as biotech, medical devices etc. - for a while, all with different styles. The public sector is where the real crap is, though - outmoded practices, deadwood untrained managers playing the system for themselves, gross bullying (despite "control measures" - hah!), stupid decisions: no company that behaved similarly would survive. The real evil is that the public sector is driven by politics and no politician will plan long-term, so it staggers along from crisis to crisis with no grassroots strategy to sort out the mess. It's criminal.

On th TDM front, I take real pleasure from all that relaxing torque - it's almost like the diesel cars I used to drive. Is that grownup cool?? Suits my battlescarred psyche, whatever. The only danger is I may be heading for a cruiser? Nah - maybe a superscoot one day though.

This thread is moving towards an Erdferkel-type exercise. Where is our muddy philosopher these days, anyway - maybe exam time?

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#56 muddy

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 07:29 pm

QUOTE(Pict @ Mon 4th Jun 2007, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Industry (perhaps especially pharmaceuticals) has a nasty reputation, but I can honestly say that in 20 years there I never saw as bad management, lack of initiative, selfishness, bullying, wastage of people and resources and sheer stupidity as in 3 years with the NHS. It was appalling - like working under a Victorian taskmaster and so frustrating to see so much power wielded by duff managers who'd never get a job in the outside world.


And that's the crux of it. I reckon my bald patch comes from scratching my head at some of the decisions and practices of managers that I've worked for in the NHS.

I would make so bold a statement as to say that the NHS is New Labours vehicle to give a leg up into the middle classes to those who simply don't have the competence or intelligence to earn that status by merit. It's a scandal that I think needs a lot more media attention. I, for one, am frightened of ever needing to be hospitalised in this country.

The notion, taken by some political commentators, that we long ago embarked on a back door cultural revolution makes sense in the light of what I've seen over the last few years. For instance, I was really concerned about going to University in my late thirties to study nursing. I shouldn't have worried, it was a doddle. If you get selected to be a nurse, that's exactly what you're going to be, regardless of suitability or competence. There can be no losers in New Labours vision of Britain and if there are then, guess what, widen the goal posts a bit more so they get to score as well ranting.gif

Edited by muddy, 04 June 2007 - 08:02 pm.

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#57 ChrisG

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 08:04 pm

QUOTE(Pict @ Mon 4th Jun 2007, 07:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The public sector is where the real crap is, though - outmoded practices, deadwood untrained managers playing the system for themselves, gross bullying (despite "control measures" - hah!), stupid decisions: no company that behaved similarly would survive. The real evil is that the public sector is driven by politics and no politician will plan long-term, so it staggers along from crisis to crisis with no grassroots strategy to sort out the mess. It's criminal.


You'd be suprised, it ain't just the public sector. Most of the defence industry is like it as well. Why? Because the public sector are thier customer and are fecking awfull at contracts.

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#58 Pict

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 08:21 pm

QUOTE(ChrisG @ Mon 4th Jun 2007, 08:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You'd be suprised, it ain't just the public sector. Most of the defence industry is like it as well. Why? Because the public sector are thier customer and are fecking awfull at contracts.

Funny you should say that - my brother works for GEC-Marconi blink.gif huh.gif

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#59 ChrisG

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 08:43 pm

QUOTE(Pict @ Mon 4th Jun 2007, 09:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Funny you should say that - my brother works for GEC-Marconi blink.gif huh.gif


Oooo, they've got a few nice big jucy government contracts to keep them going. Aren't they the prime on Astute? Currently £900M over budget and 3 years late.

Ever heard of the book Lions donkeys and dinosaurs? All about wasted money in the defence industry. Quite an elightening read I'm told (it's doing the rounds of our office, i'm in the queue)

Edited by ChrisG, 04 June 2007 - 08:48 pm.

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#60 TeDeum

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 09:05 pm

[quote name='Pict' date='Mon 4th Jun 2007, 07:48 PM' post='42657']
The only danger is I may be heading for a cruiser?

/quote]
Don't do it! Mrs TeDeum and I went to the Euro Harley Rally in Killarney last year (just as voyeurs you have to understand) and, despite meeting some great people, determined that we would be ready for a Harley when we are 73 and 75 respectively!

I was lucky enough to have made my life change 30 years ago and moved into self employment. I now have plenty of stress but it is my stress and I can control it - it is not shovelled onto me from above as before. What I do not have is a company car, a great salary and any sort of meaningful pension prospect. But I am contented. (I probably come across as a prick for saying that and wicky would (will!) put me in my place. What is scary is that if I had to make the same decision today that I made in the late 70s I would not have the bottle with the responsibilities that come with being 'grown up'.

Great thread, thanks wicky.

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