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Led Indicators Conversion


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#1 butcher650

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 05:55 pm

Howdy again! Last topic for today I promise:

As part of the ongoing saga for my old 3Vd, when the fence in my garden was replaced in the winter, I think the bumbling workmen must of somehow leant on/fell on my bike as when I uncovered it a few weeks ago to resume work on it, both left indicators were snapped off at the bolts. (Front and back). I so then decided to replace, but with LED units for two reasons:
A) - To save more precious volts, and
B) - Tiny amount of wanting it to look smarter, and as Ive got LED headlights, thought they'd go together. So:

I bought a relatively cheap set, and also knew I'd need an LED specific flasher relay and also a diode kit for the dash blinker. I've fitted the units, the FL, and also the diode kit as per instructions and various research and videos I've watched. However, they still do not work. Absolutely nothing. So far I've checked:
FL is receiving 12 volts
FL is wired correctly (noted B, L and E from old wiring.
However, where I've fitted the diode kit under the dash, its only getting about 0.10 volts. Also each indicator itself only received 0.10 volts whem switched in that direction. I know LEDs draw less wattage, but I'm assuming I should still see 12volts under the dash to the dash blinker, and at each indicator respectively when that side is engaged?

Has anybody done this/experienced similar issues/know where I'm going wrong?

Again, many rounds of thanks and appreciation in advance!

#2 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 06:13 pm

Not sure that you need the diode kits if you've already got the LED specific relay.

 

Sure someone on here with lectrickery knowledge will confirm.


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#3 butcher650

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 06:42 pm

Hmm, okie doke. I had tried before the diode kit, and all four came on (very very dimly), and no flashy!

#4 butcher650

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 06:52 pm

So, I've been doing a lot more research, a lot more fiddling, but still haven't got them quite working as they should. First rule of thumb I've read is:

If you have only ONE tell tale on the dash, just the LED flasher won't do it, as the power is always sent to both sides. If you DO have two (9ner peeps), the LED flasher should do it.
So in my case if you have the 1 tell tale, you need a diode kit to re-ground the tell tale and so only send the power to the side you wish. I have done this, but I still wasn't getting anything - No lighting up. Tested the FL, and although its getting 12v on the 'B' side, it's not outputting anything on the 'L'.

I then fitted my old flasher back in, and hey - I got flashing on the correct sides when I wanted, left or right - but they were hyperflashing. This proves I needed the diode kit and that its working. More research ended with buying a resistor kit for each blinker, as this IS SUPPOSED to fix this issue. (So says the listing descriptions on fleabay). They arrived today, so I hastily fitted them loosely (just to test first). However, I still have hyperflashing. I tried the LED FL with resistors, still nothing. (As in no lighting up at all). They are still hyperflashing with the old FL, with or without the resistors. I did some voltage tests, and recorded my results:

Stock FL - With resistors fitted at each lamp:
B = 12v
L = 2.3 - 4.09v when signals engaged
L = 9.84v when signals NOT engaged
Turn signals receive 2.3 - 4.09v when engaged.

Stock FL - WITHOUT resistors fitted at each lamp:
B = 12v
L = 3.3 - 5v when signals engaged
L = 9.84 when signals NOT engaged
Turn signals receive 3.3 - 5v when engaged.

LED FL - With resistors fitted at each lamp:
B = 12v
L = 0v when signals engaged or not.
Turn signals receive nothing.

LED FL - WITHOUT resistors fitted at each lamp:
B = 12v
L = 0.03v - 0.04v when signals engaged or not
Turn signals receive 0.03v - 0.04v when engaged.

Help!
I know I'm not the greatest at leccys, but I'm getting better, and better than I used to be.

I will do some more research and see if I can get to the bottom of this. How hard can it be?!

#5 leehenty

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 07:38 pm

You need a 10 ohm 10watt resistor in parallel on each indicator, this simulates the normal load with the oem relay and it will flash normally. obviously they will need heatshrink or whatever to insulate them.
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#6 leehenty

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 08:28 pm

Try reversing leads of LED, unlike a bulb the act as one way diodes.
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#7 butcher650

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 09:35 pm

You need a 10 ohm 10watt resistor in parallel on each indicator, this simulates the normal load with the oem relay and it will flash normally. obviously they will need heatshrink or whatever to insulate them.


Ahhh... Thats super helpful, thanks Lee. Just checked the ones I got, and they're 21W 26 ohms. I'll return them and find the correct ones!

#8 butcher650

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 03:15 pm

Just fitted 10 ohm 10watt resistors, and they're still hyperflashing. Annoyed now.

#9 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 05:50 pm

Are you fitting the resistors across the two wires ?  From memory I disconnected the indicator connectors and bridged a resistor across them. One for left side, one for right side.


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#10 butcher650

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 09:19 pm

I believe I am Studley..This is how I'm fitting them:

20200522_221236_zpscmuhgsyp.jpg

Fitting one of these at each lamp.

#11 Catteeclan

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 09:20 am

What a pain in the arse, must be an easier way.


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#12 Favs

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 10:42 am

Just fit em in-line and your woes will be over - one for each side may be enough (it is on my 9er).

Attached File  20200522_221236_zpscmuhgsyp.jpg   136.87KB   0 downloads


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#13 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 11:09 am

Ah right, yours are different to what I had, I just had the actual tupenny resistor.  Follow Favs advice and you'll be a happy chappy. :good:


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#14 butcher650

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 12:08 pm

What a pain in the arse, must be an easier way.


Pain in the arse is one way of describing it!

Thanks Favs, music to my ears that I should be able to fix this without buying more bits, but I am still a little confused as there is a positive and negative from both indicators and bike loom. Do I ignore these negatives and simply fit the resistors in line using just the positives?

#15 Favs

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 03:48 pm

Ok butcher650 

 

Separate one indicator wire / plug one end of the resistor  (let's say Black), into the bike side of the wire / plug the other end of the resistor (Red) into the the indicator end of the wire you separated. If you want to test the R value set your meter to Ohms and apply a probe to each end of the resistor (BTW your bike takes 21w lamps IIRC so should have 21w resistors (900 have 10w)). If you need 2 more resistors I have a pair of 10w in the shed somewhere). The result is you get brighter indicators but no power saving.

HTH

 

Edit

Just noticed you have 10w resistors so may not have enough resistance for stock flasher unit.


Edited by Favs, 23 May 2020 - 04:02 pm.

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#16 butcher650

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 05:40 pm

Ahh I see - So like this:

20200523_183526_zpsntvvrnx0.jpg

Ok - I do have 4 21W ones too that I bought first: Would I need to use these ones then?

20200523_183555_zpsthz5eb72.jpg

#17 Favs

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 05:52 pm

I'd try the 21w first with stock flasher unit & yes that's the way to wire em.


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#18 butcher650

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 08:18 pm

Super! Thanks ever so much Favs, you're a diamond.

#19 butcher650

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Posted 24 May 2020 - 10:45 am

So, I've just tried with the Red 10w and the Yellow 21w resistors, wired in the above way, and they're STILL hyperflashing. I do have an LED relay, but when I've had that fitted and tested, it recieves 12v, but doesn't output any voltage. Do I need that in conjunction with resistors wired in the above way?

#20 drewpy

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Posted 24 May 2020 - 11:30 am

So, I've just tried with the Red 10w and the Yellow 21w resistors, wired in the above way, and they're STILL hyperflashing. I do have an LED relay, but when I've had that fitted and tested, it recieves 12v, but doesn't output any voltage. Do I need that in conjunction with resistors wired in the above way?

i thought LED relays didn't need any resistance to work, that was the point of them in the first instance


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