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#241 Coxylaad

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 02:43 pm

Looks very like a bike I had  :good:

 

Has it had the seat lowered? Still to dig out these Power commander maps for you  :hide:

I've got the power commander maps Alan, It was the dyno sheets you were getting for me :) 

 

infact, I have transposed powercommander map over the top of the 'stock' map in the ECU. provided the stock maps are the same, I should get similar results. its all experimentation, but given I have a little bit of hesitancy at maintenance throttle from 2000 to 3500rpm which I thought was lean running, and when I look at the powercommander map it has a lot of enrichment in exactly that area of the map, it makes sense. 

 

I will report back see what the seat of the pants feel is like.



#242 dandywarhol

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 05:39 pm

I've got the power commander maps Alan, It was the dyno sheets you were getting for me :)

 

infact, I have transposed powercommander map over the top of the 'stock' map in the ECU. provided the stock maps are the same, I should get similar results. its all experimentation, but given I have a little bit of hesitancy at maintenance throttle from 2000 to 3500rpm which I thought was lean running, and when I look at the powercommander map it has a lot of enrichment in exactly that area of the map, it makes sense. 

 

I will report back see what the seat of the pants feel is like.

 

That mid range enrichment would be for the Akra silencers I guess


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#243 Coxylaad

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Posted 08 May 2019 - 07:26 am

did you run baffles in the akra silencers?

its got them in now, and I quite like the sound it makes, purposeful but not intrusive.  



#244 dandywarhol

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Posted 08 May 2019 - 05:23 pm

did you run baffles in the akra silencers?

its got them in now, and I quite like the sound it makes, purposeful but not intrusive.  

 

Yep - I don't like noisy bikes - baffled Akras are good compromise IMO


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#245 Coxylaad

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 11:40 am

ordered a wide band lambda so I can enable the auto tune feature.

 

its got that much power now the clutch is slipping when I am going through the gears. bugger. 



#246 wicklamulla

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 01:24 pm

ordered a wide band lambda so I can enable the auto tune feature.

 

its got that much power now the clutch is slipping when I am going through the gears. bugger. 

is it goin on the dyno at some pint in time Coxy?  I'd love ta know what it's making


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#247 Coxylaad

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 01:46 pm

at some point, but for now I am going down the route of getting a wideband lambda plugged into the ecu and using the auto tune feature to ensure everything is in spec. 



#248 Coxylaad

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 02:09 pm

this arrived today:
kTI9kgH.jpg 
 
wideband lambda with controller unit to plug directly into my ecu for mapping.  should allow me to see what is going on and get it mapped up on the road. 


#249 Coxylaad

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 12:15 pm

Thought I would provide a little write up about My findings on the new ecu.

 

Firstly, as previously mentioned my engine has been lightly tuned, including:

  • raised compression
  • fast road cams
  • ported head

I have rebuilt the bike over the winter and refreshed virtually everything on there. 

 

I decided to treat the bike to a custom ecu given the old power commander on the bike gave up the ghost. 

 

The Ignijet ECU is a standalone ecu, which means you do away with the stock ecu altogether, unlike the Power Commander which is a piggy back ecu and intercepts and modifies the signals the stock ecu sends. 

 

The advantage of a stand alone ecu is full control of all areas of engine management. With a piggy back ecu you always have the stock ecu underneath trying to conform with its original brief of emissions, noise and safety regulations, so you will always have things such as reducing the power output in lower gears, dips in certain sections of the power/torque curve where it had to conform to some noise or emission regulation etc

 

The standalone doesn't care about any of that. It has a fully customisable ignition and fuel map, and can also split the fueling maps for individual cylinders, and both the ignition and fueling tables can be setup for each gear if you want to. 

 

I decided to buy the wide band lambda setup and see if I can build a map myself using the autotune function. It took me a while to get it working, nothing was happening until I realised the autotune function actually happens on the laptop not the ecu, so I eventually got myself a setup with a laptop in a back pack on my back.  

 

I developed a tuning process on a long straight slightly uphill section of local dual carriageway, where I could do some top gear roll on's with varying constant throttle openings. The gradient providing a bit more resistance to the engines speed increase. 

 

I did a few of these runs up and down, and headed home to see the results. The laptop records the values in a compensation map, which you can then choose to apply or not. 

 

I have done this process about 4 times now and the adjustments are getting smaller an smaller every time I head out. 

 

The results are quite impressive. Where it was a bit hesitant or flat, it was identifying and adding or taking away fuel as necessary. The net effect is the bike is super smooth from 2000rpm upwards. Its got that buttery smooth throttle uptake that carbs have, and it pulls like a train from 4000rpm onward. 

The engine feels much stronger everywhere, and its also a lot smoother, which i didn't expect. Vibrations are much reduced. in normal cruising  conditions. 

 

The map is pretty much sorted now, all hesitation and flat spots have been elliminated, and I tuned the the engine to a nice safe 13.8 to 13.5 AFR.

 

I need to have a look at the ignition map now, I think I can retard the ignition a touch on the full throttle maps as I should have better cylinder fill with the tuned engine. This is going to be a bit of an experiment as I have not really messed around with ignition maps, but I'll report back my findings. 

 

 

Jobs left to do is installed the quickshifter and enable the function on the ecu, and over the winter I am going to fit front and rear wheel speed sensors and enable the traction control feature. 


Edited by Coxylaad, 04 June 2019 - 02:19 pm.


#250 dandywarhol

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 07:21 pm

Interesting stuff. What is the WOT air/fuel ratio?


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#251 Coxylaad

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 09:34 pm

I set it to 13.5

Actually riding home tonight I had a couple of misfires when I pull the throttle open, I am starting to think that the coils are getting old and may need replacing.

I will run another tune this morning. Strange that it's been running fine with no hesitation for a while then it starts happening again. I'll sort it.

#252 dandywarhol

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 06:37 pm

I set it to 13.5

Actually riding home tonight I had a couple of misfires when I pull the throttle open, I am starting to think that the coils are getting old and may need replacing.

I will run another tune this morning. Strange that it's been running fine with no hesitation for a while then it starts happening again. I'll sort it.

 

I'd have thought 12.5 - 12.75 for WOT with a good spark


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#253 Coxylaad

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 07:15 am

          1000    2000    4000    8000 
2%     13.8     13.8     13.8     13.8
5%     13.5     13.5     13.5     13.5
20%   13.5     13.5     13.5     13.5

60%   13.4     13.4     13.4     13.4
100% 13.2     13.2     13.2     13.2

 
 
oh really? 
this is my AFR targets, as defined by me. 
edit: crap that didnt work. Can this forum handle html snippets?

edit edit:table edited.   So basically I knew that 14.7 was the perfect burn, so I made it slightly richer to make it safe.  Am I wide of the mark?


Edited by Coxylaad, 06 June 2019 - 07:22 am.


#254 fixitsan

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 07:35 am

          1000    2000    4000    8000 
2%     13.8     13.8     13.8     13.8
5%     13.5     13.5     13.5     13.5
20%   13.5     13.5     13.5     13.5

60%   13.4     13.4     13.4     13.4
100% 13.2     13.2     13.2     13.2

 
 
oh really? 
this is my AFR targets, as defined by me. 
edit: crap that didnt work. Can this forum handle html snippets?

edit edit:table edited.   So basically I knew that 14.7 was the perfect burn, so I made it slightly richer to make it safe.  Am I wide of the mark?

 

 

I would have thought leaner settings at 2% and 5% would be better, and a tad richer at 80% onwards, presumably if you put those values in the software applies it's own smoothing and doesn't change in large steps ?

 

The other thing is how does it deal with acceleration enrichment, like a carb pump effect. Is it via the rate of change of throttle position, or by the difference between throttle position and expected load ? I suppose there could be another way, but what I'm getting at is that some of the flat spotting can occur because the acceleration enrichment is incorrect, not the underlying fixed fuel table


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#255 Coxylaad

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 08:07 am

rate of change of throttle position. its got a whole host of compensation maps including acceleration enrichment, coolant temp compensation, ambient air temp compensation, voltage drop compensation, the list goes on. 

 

one thing I would like some advice on is the ignition map. I will upload it shortly.

 

So this is the new target AFR I am going to try and tune to. I keep the history of my tuning so if it doesnt work I can always go back. 

 

          1000    2000    4000    8000 
2%     14.0     14.0     14.0     14.0
5%     13.8     13.8     13.8     13.8
20%   13.5     13.5     13.5     13.5

60%   13.1     13.1     13.1     13.1
100% 12.9     12.9     12.9     12.9


Edited by Coxylaad, 06 June 2019 - 08:40 am.


#256 Coxylaad

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 08:49 am

current advance map:

 

       1000 1300 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 7000 8000 9000 10000
0% 22 13 13 19 28 32 33 33 33 32 32 32 30 27 27
2% 22 14 14 31 28 32 33 33 33 32 32 32 30 27 27
5% 22 19 21 28 28 30 33 33 33 32 32 32 30 27 27
10% 22 16 21 28 28 31 33 33 33 32 32 32 30 27 27
20% 22 13 18 31 28 32 33 33 33 32 32 32 30 27 27
30% 22 15 9 31 28 28 27 27 33 32 32 32 30 27 27
40% 22 13 10 14 25 32 26 23 33 32 32 32 30 27 27
60% 22 13 11 17 15 18 19 23 31 30 30 32 30 27 27
80% 22 13 13 15 20 21 19 19 24 26 26 26 26 26 26
100% 22 13 13 17 19 20 21 21 22 26 26 26 26 26 27
 
 
Just noticed the spurious 9 degree of advance at 30% throttle 2500rpm. 

Edited by Coxylaad, 06 June 2019 - 08:50 am.


#257 fixitsan

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 03:06 pm

 

current advance map:

 

       1000 1300 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 7000 8000 9000 10000
0% 22 13 13 19 28 32 33 33 33 32 32 32 30 27 27
2% 22 14 14 31 28 32 33 33 33 32 32 32 30 27 27
5% 22 19 21 28 28 30 33 33 33 32 32 32 30 27 27
10% 22 16 21 28 28 31 33 33 33 32 32 32 30 27 27
20% 22 13 18 31 28 32 33 33 33 32 32 32 30 27 27
30% 22 15 9 31 28 28 27 27 33 32 32 32 30 27 27
40% 22 13 10 14 25 32 26 23 33 32 32 32 30 27 27
60% 22 13 11 17 15 18 19 23 31 30 30 32 30 27 27
80% 22 13 13 15 20 21 19 19 24 26 26 26 26 26 26
100% 22 13 13 17 19 20 21 21 22 26 26 26 26 26 27
 
 
Just noticed the spurious 9 degree of advance at 30% throttle 2500rpm. 

 

 

 

I think you can go a lot further with advance.

If you click on the map picture in the link below and save it to your PC, then view it zoomed in, you can just make out the values.

 

This is a map which has either been downloaded from a standard TDM ECU, OR a modified map as used by Samios, you would have to ask Mr_Hollywood for specific details ....  https://ecuhacking.a.../yamaha-tdm900/


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#258 Coxylaad

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 07:40 pm

I've just cobbled together an imitation of that map. I am going to download it to the bike and give it a run out. 

 

I suspect with the more advanced ignition its going to have an effect on how much fuel the bike needs

 

I'll report back



#259 Coxylaad

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 10:41 pm

Test ride done.

Much more aggressive from 50% throttle up over.

The 5 to 10% throttle range needs some work as it felt like it was hunting a bit around 3000 to 4000rpm on a constant throttle.

I wonder how you tell if you have too much advance at WOT

#260 fixitsan

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 07:38 am

Test ride done.

Much more aggressive from 50% throttle up over.

The 5 to 10% throttle range needs some work as it felt like it was hunting a bit around 3000 to 4000rpm on a constant throttle.

I wonder how you tell if you have too much advance at WOT

 

Too much advance always causes knock

 

 

When tuning cars (never done much with bikes, but don't see there being much of a difference), running up to 34-36 degrees was considered acceptable if all other parameters were optimised.

 

You're running at the rich end of the scale, so you will be running (probably) cooler temps than if it were a standard leaner mixture. Leaner mixtures burn more slowly and require more advance in order to see enough time for the power to be extracted, or else the exhaust valve sees much higher temperatures and that's when exhaust valves get burned.

 

 

Getting the relationship between the ignition timing and the cam/valve timing, first, and then trying to peak the power output by changing the AFR will normally see you in the safe working zone, rather than peaking the AFR for power and then starting to change the timing to suit, which can lead to dangerous timing settings should you ever change the AFR especially, but also it's difficult to know if you've reached a plateau of output because the timing is too advanced or too retarded

 

The peak  torque timing curve  for a 14:1 AFR is usually pretty much the same shape as for a 13:1 AFR, because the optimum relationship is dictated by the timing of the valves opening and closing, and the only difference is that the curve is shifted one way or the other by a few degrees to allow for different AFRs

 

 

I think you should be safe with a max of 34 degrees and a rich mixture until you get it on a dyno, and it's still possible that it can be tuned to make more power (probably not more torque though) by leaning out the mixture or retarding the timing


Edited by fixitsan, 07 June 2019 - 07:41 am.

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