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Automatic Chain Lubrication Systems


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#1 Matlock

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 12:45 am

I’m working a long nightshift tonight, so during the duller moments, i.e. all of it, I’m researching automatic chain oilers for my 900. Looking through a few threads the choice seems to be: Scottoiler (70 GB Pounds), Pro Oiler (140 GB Pounds) or the CLS200 (140 GB Pounds). Both the CLS and the Pro Oiler look like nice, well engineered bits of kit. But are they really worth paying twice as much for as a Scottoiler? I’m 90% convinced the Scottoiler is the way to go for cost and simplicity reasons. Am I missing something? Anyone care to convince me of the merits of the other two?

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#2 Hartside Man

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 01:12 am

QUOTE(Matlock @ Sat 30th Dec 2006, 12:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I’m working a long nightshift tonight, so during the duller moments, i.e. all of it, I’m researching automatic chain oilers for my 900. Looking through a few threads the choice seems to be: Scottoiler (70 GB Pounds), Pro Oiler (140 GB Pounds) or the CLS200 (140 GB Pounds). Both the CLS and the Pro Oiler look like nice, well engineered bits of kit. But are they really worth paying twice as much for as a Scottoiler? I’m 90% convinced the Scottoiler is the way to go for cost and simplicity reasons. Am I missing something? Anyone care to convince me of the merits of the other two?


En-joy and Stormy seem to favour the fancy ones if you look at these posts there is a bit of info

http://www.carpe-tdm...o...c=908&st=40 scroll for stormy's post

http://www.carpe-tdm...?showtopic=2746 scroll for e-njoy posts

hope this helps and don't confuse matters rolleyes.gif

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#3 twinrider

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 01:26 am

I had a scottoiler. It really helped my chain last but it's a pita to have to keep adjusting the oil flow to suit ambient temps and sometimes in summer I couldn't get the drip rate low enough. If I buy again I'll spend the extra dosh and get a higher end kit.

The control afforded by the Hawke oiler is attractive. You just hit the button whenever you want to lube the chain while riding. Also inexpensive.

http://www.hawkeoiler.com/index.html

#4 Matlock

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 03:34 am

QUOTE(twinrider @ Sat 30th Dec 2006, 01:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I had a scottoiler. It really helped my chain last but it's a pita to have to keep adjusting the oil flow to suit ambient temps and sometimes in summer I couldn't get the drip rate low enough. If I buy again I'll spend the extra dosh and get a higher end kit.

The control afforded by the Hawke oiler is attractive. You just hit the button whenever you want to lube the chain while riding. Also inexpensive.

http://www.hawkeoiler.com/index.html


Thanks Twinrider, I'm not too worried about the ambient temperature range causing flow problems - I'm only going to be out in the 5 to 25 degrees C range. Preferably the higher end of the scale smile.gif . Or can I expect to be making adjustments in that range?

The Hawkeoiler is a non-starter. With my memory I may just remember to keep the resevoir topped up on any of these systems, but there's no way I'll remember to keep pressing the button huh.gif

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#5 twinrider

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 04:39 am

QUOTE(Matlock @ Sat 30th Dec 2006, 04:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks Twinrider, I'm not too worried about the ambient temperature range causing flow problems - I'm only going to be out in the 5 to 25 degrees C range. Preferably the higher end of the scale smile.gif . Or can I expect to be making adjustments in that range?


Yes, within that range you'll have to check the flow rate and adjust accordingly.

#6 Landy

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 09:16 am

I like the look of the Hawkeoiler its a good compromise between the fancy electronic controls and the hit and miss (or should that be drip and piss) gravity system. It looks like good value at about £85 delivered. Getting into the habit of pressing the button should be OK after a while i.e. just after filling up perhaps?
It also sounds like it will accept a wide range of oils which should reduce running costs. A mate of mine swears by chain saw oil, think about it.
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#7 Guest_Dragan_*

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 11:15 am

I use Pro Oiler and I am very happy with it. Passed around 10.000 km. Not any issue, so far.
Require only initial calibration. I know, this unit is expensive. I am little bit lazy and oblivious to keep adjusting the oil flow. That is a main reason why I use Pro Oiler. Pro Oiler requires a little modification, to be used with TDM900. One capacitor has to be removed from the junction box. With this modification Pro Oiler can be connected to speedo.

#8 robelst

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 02:06 pm

Having spent 23 winters on bikes I'd say simplicity always wins. Scottoilers have never let me down, gravity is reliable and the level of accuaracy is more than sufficient to keep something as primitive as a chain greased up. I adjust mine only a couple of times a year and chains last forever. Don't forget, O-ring chains carry their own lubrication inside, all the oiler needs to do is a bit of splashing on the O-rings to keep them clean and souple so they won't break and loose the grease inside the chain. No rocket science really.

If you go for the Scottoiler, buy a Dual Injector with it: This oils the chain from both sides, meaning you can set it leaner and still get better effect.

And never use chain-saw oil in an automtic oiler: It's too sticky and defies the cleaning effect of the oiler which is fresh oil dripping constantly.

Edited by robelst, 30 December 2006 - 02:10 pm.

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#9 twinrider

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 02:51 pm

QUOTE(Andy K @ Sat 30th Dec 2006, 10:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I like the look of the Hawkeoiler its a good compromise between the fancy electronic controls and the hit and miss (or should that be drip and piss) gravity system. It looks like good value at about £85 delivered. Getting into the habit of pressing the button should be OK after a while i.e. just after filling up perhaps?
It also sounds like it will accept a wide range of oils which should reduce running costs. A mate of mine swears by chain saw oil, think about it.



That's what I thought. And it's easy to tailor to weather conditions, i.e., pop the button a couple extra times if it's raining hard. I heard gear oil works well too.

#10 mr sat nav

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 03:13 pm

I have a Scotoiler fitted and am very happy with it, but I would agree that you definately need the dual injector!
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#11 stormy

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 03:29 pm

Well,

I have Pro-Oilers on 3 out of my 4 bikes, so either I get a good discount (which I don´t) or they must be good bits of equipment.

I´ve used Scottoilers in the past, and quite frankly, compared to the newer, modern stuff out there now, they are well past their use by date.

However, that said, on my installations, I´ve junked the Pro-Oiler twin nozzles and used the Scottoiler twin nozzles fed by the Pro-Oiler. Much neater and easier installation in my opinion. When I´m back from Germany in the new year, I´ll stick some pictures up if anyone wants to see the finished article.


Pro-Oiler ..... gets my vote everytime.

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#12 aytcat1

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 04:40 pm

Before i got the Scotoiler i use to have a Chaintec oiler on a XT600ZE Tenere this worked by inertia had it for a few years but broke it taking it off so had to buy a scotoiler for the TDM.
Cant say anything about the other two but if i could get a Chaintec oiler again i would as there are no pipes to fit on to the carbs etc.And a lot simpiler.
so if anybody comes across these Chaintec oilers (think they are not made anymore) let me know

#13 E-njoy

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 06:51 pm

QUOTE(Matlock @ Sat 30th Dec 2006, 01:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I’m working a long nightshift tonight, so during the duller moments, i.e. all of it, I’m researching automatic chain oilers for my 900. Looking through a few threads the choice seems to be: Scottoiler (70 GB Pounds), Pro Oiler (140 GB Pounds) or the CLS200 (140 GB Pounds). Both the CLS and the Pro Oiler look like nice, well engineered bits of kit. But are they really worth paying twice as much for as a Scottoiler? I’m 90% convinced the Scottoiler is the way to go for cost and simplicity reasons. Am I missing something? Anyone care to convince me of the merits of the other two?


As you can see in the link posted earlier in this topic the Scottoiler uses about twice to four times as much oil as a CLS or Pro-oiler, because it is pretty primitive and has no automatic compensation or sensors for temperature or speed. The CLS and Pro-oiler have a range of around 11.000 km with a 250 ml bottle (the CLS 250 ml bottle fits perfectly under the TDM saddle). That's a pretty good range I think and should have no worries on an extended vacation trip. The standard scottoiler kit has a resevoir good for only 400 to 800 miles before it's totally empty. On vacation that could mean filling it up completely every two days. So you need a big bottle of scottoil with you or the touring version which includes a 400 ml reservoir (6000 km - 12.000 km). The touring version of scottoiler is 94 pounds. Because of the oil consumption you need about 30 pounds of scottoil in 50.000 km. So the difference in price over 50.000 km is now only 25 pounds (and if you add the dual injectors for 20 pounds which come standard with the pro-oiler, although not really needed, the difference is very small).

To save those 25 pounds (or nill) you'll have a huge 400 ml tank hanging of the rear on the numberplate and a system that has to be re-adjusted (by guess and experience) constantly. The viscosity of the oil, when the temperature outside changes from 10 to 30 degrees Celsius (not very uncommon to happen within a few hours when riding in the mountains or on very clear summer days), changes 410%! Even if the temperature outside will change from just 20 to 25 degrees C, the driprate in a scottoiler will double! Not every efficient...

I don't know how complex the installation to the vacuum system on the TDM is, but the CLS just hooks up to the battery (right next to that bottle) and that's it. If you go for the CLS speed, you just need to install the reed switch and magnet to the rear sprocket. The CLS system is amazingly simple. The oil goes from the reservoir through an electronic unit which is already setup and completely, weatherproof, sealed. To adjust the flow while riding (if you wish, for instance during rain) the installation of the included turn knob is very simple. No programming is needed, just need to adjust the driprate once depending on the temperature (follow the included table), after that the electronic unit will automatically adjust the magnetic switch depending on temperature.





So the consequence with the CLS system (pro-oiler as well, just more complex to set up) is a much more efficient system, a cleaner rear wheel, no in-between adjusments needed, the system won't be too lean (dry chain) or too rich (puddles). No need for a huge reservoir or oil refill tank on a trip. No need to fiddle with the engine's vaccuum. The CLS is SIMPLER in operation and just as simple (probably simpler!) for installation.

A double chain injector is also not needed with the right oil. I discussed this with Heiko, the CLS guy, since my pro-oiler (Sprint ST) had two injectors as standard and the CLS has one. Like with different oils he tested the dual injectors and found it wasn't really needed. His setup is amazingly user friendly and very simple in operation and installation, while having the same efficiency as the pro-oiler (probably even better, since the CLS oil is better and the setup has already been done, you don't need to program everything).



So in the end the cost difference is not that big if you add up the stuff that comes standard with or isn't needed with CLS / Pro-oiler. Running costs are higher with a scottoiler and the operation is also not as simple (fit, calibrate and forget) as with CLS / Pro-oiler. In my opinion the scottoiler was a nice invention at the time, but is now extremely primitive compared to CLS / Pro-oiler. I have no idea why scottoiler never updated their design... I guess that's what Heiko (CLS) and Pablo (Pro-oiler) thought as well when they designed their kits.

Pro-oiler, rather complex to install and program (once setup and calibrated you can forget about it though):



Hopes this helps...
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#14 Matlock

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 09:29 pm

Thanks for taking the time to reply everyone, especially Emile's highly detailed response. I'm begining to swing towards the CLS200, but I'll need to get the seat off tomorrow to see how much room I've got under there anyway as there's a Datatool alarm already fitted. But the CLS website makes it clear that the location of the components is pretty flexible so I should be able to fit it all in somehow. I think that's another constraint of the Scottoiler system I hadn't considered - larger components in an already tight area under the seat. BTW, what's the 'CLS Speed' (apart from outside of my price range smile.gif )? There's no English translation and my German language skills are non-existant.

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#15 E-njoy

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 10:39 pm

QUOTE(Matlock @ Sat 30th Dec 2006, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
. BTW, what's the 'CLS Speed' (apart from outside of my price range smile.gif )? There's no English translation and my German language skills are non-existant.


You can go directly here for English: http://www.cls200.com or click on the union jack pic on the .de site.

The CLS Speed is the CLS200 plus a wire installed on the electronic box with a reed switch sensor on the end. You stick the provided magnet on your rear sprocket and mount the sensor in line (I suggest you do that after mounting the drip arm) with the magnet. That way the unit also knows speed and will drip faster at 180 km/h or slower at 20 km/h through traffic.

The Pro Oiler can also be connected to a reed switch, or it can be connected to the pulse feed wire for the electronic speedo (you have to program the system after that to teach it how many pulses there are per rotation), that's how I had it done with my Sprint ST. I installed the CLS myself, was simpler and easier than I thought.

The speed compensation, together with the temperature compensation, makes it so different from the scottoiler which has neither. Both have a significant effect on efficiency, as explained earlier.

In the end all systems make your chain last a LOT longer though, it's just that a scottoiler either takes constant adjusting or, when you just put it on a pretty rich setting, uses many times more oil.
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#16 E-njoy

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 12:42 am

Just noted your subject line:

> Automatic Chain Lubrication Systems, Britain vs USA vs Germany?

If you think the pro-oiler is from the USA, you'd be wrong (like you need them in the US when you put your belt driven Harley or ZX6R on the trailer behind the "truck"). Pablo is the guy running the one-man pro-oiler setup, he's English...living in Belgium. So I don't know what you'd call it then... Uropeen? And do Englanders still consider Scottland (or Wales for that matter) part of the kingdom?

I think the subject line would be more correct like this:

> Automatic Chain Lubrication Systems, Scottland vs United Belgdom vs Germany? tongue.gif
Emile
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#17 robelst

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 01:20 am

QUOTE(E-njoy @ Sun 31st Dec 2006, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And do Englanders still consider Scottland (or Wales for that matter) part of the kingdom? [img]

After losing the Ashes we prefer considering it the only part of the kingdom tongue.gif
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#18 Landy

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 08:54 am

QUOTE(E-njoy @ Sun 31st Dec 2006, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just noted your subject line:

> Automatic Chain Lubrication Systems, Britain vs USA vs Germany?

I think the subject line would be more correct like this:

> Automatic Chain Lubrication Systems, Scottland vs United Belgdom vs Germany? tongue.gif


It's Scotland, Wales and don't forget Northern Island that make Britain Great, the thread also includes Hawkeoiler which is from the US of A so should it be

> Automatic Chain Lubrication Systems, 'Great Scot' land (UK) vs USA vs United Belgdom vs Germany? good.gif
TS50ER, Suzuki GT125, Cagiva 125, Suzuki GT250 20 year gap. Honda CBF600. Discovered the joy of TDM, 1974 GT250 has joined the stable
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#19 E-njoy

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 11:08 am

QUOTE(Andy K @ Sun 31st Dec 2006, 09:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
> Automatic Chain Lubrication Systems, 'Great Scot' land (UK) vs USA vs United Belgdom vs Germany? good.gif


That's sounds even better smile.gif .

Got an idea here, don't know what people think about it. I met the CLS guy during the international V-strom gathering in Kulmbach, north of Nuremberg. He had an open tent set up on the parking lot during the entire weekend and was installing CLS systems, for riders who were interested, on the spot (probably installing for free, don't know though).

I know he already has TDM experience, since he's been active on the German TDM forum www.tdm-forum.net. Anyway, it's very easy to install it on a TDM. I could perhaps ask him if he would like to set up a stand during the RTT07 weekend or so? It could save folks a lot on shipping and potential installation problems / costs. I guess he's got plenty of potential buyers. I assume the German TDM forum guys have been contacted about the RTT07 as well?
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#20 Matlock

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 05:46 pm

QUOTE(E-njoy @ Sun 31st Dec 2006, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you think the pro-oiler is from the USA, you'd be wrong (like you need them in the US when you put your belt driven Harley or ZX6R on the trailer behind the "truck"). Pablo is the guy running the one-man pro-oiler setup, he's English...living in Belgium. So I don't know what you'd call it then... Uropeen? And do Englanders still consider Scottland (or Wales for that matter) part of the kingdom?


Apologies to Pablo for placing him on the wrong continent and to Scottoiler, though to be fair I'm not the first Englishman to claim as Scottish invention as an English one. My scottish friends regularly tell me that the Scots invented everything. As to what you call an Englishman living in Belgium? Lucky - great country and great beers.

2002 TDM900 in glorious yellowNOW SOLD  :( 

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1990 XTZ750 in black, standard apart from Micron silencer. Mechanical restoration complete, cosmetic restoration next on the agenda.. NOW SOLD  :( 

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