Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Starter Problem


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 Gwynhid

Gwynhid

    arrived on last train

  • Member
  • 5 posts
  • TDM model: none yet

Posted 30 June 2018 - 12:03 pm

My TDM850 1997 is not willing to start - after having done a few turns it just stopped and just does the occasional click. I can short cut the solenoid with a screw driver but that a very inconvenient solutions for start ups. As the start button does something (the clicking) i am not sure it is that. Any brilliant ideas? Battery was my first thought but bypassing with a car battery results in the same fault. Thanks for any ideas...

#2 wicklamulla

wicklamulla

    is it Jizzy Rascal time yet.....?

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,211 posts
  • Location:Parish of Cruwys (pronounced 'Cruise' just loike Tom) Morchard, Mid Devon.
  • TDM model: 1999

Posted 30 June 2018 - 12:21 pm

My TDM850 1997 is not willing to start - after having done a few turns it just stopped and just does the occasional click. I can short cut the solenoid with a screw driver but that a very inconvenient solutions for start ups. As the start button does something (the clicking) i am not sure it is that. Any brilliant ideas? Battery was my first thought but bypassing with a car battery results in the same fault. Thanks for any ideas...

Hi you need to strip and clean the starter relay as i bet it's green and corroded on the inside.  It does split into 3 or 4 separate components.  The metal spade contacts may be too corroded to save and ya will possibly need a new one. There are pics on how to do it somewhere in my pics (link at the bottom of this reply)


les see if this works,

 

http://s33.photobuck...=3&sc=6&page=19


spyball alarm/immob, bluespot brake calipers and Stainless hoses, Fournales air adjustable shock with Remote Resevoir, forks raised 10mm thru yokes, racetech linear fork springs in 15 wt oil, Kappa wingrack/luggage, heated grips, Kedo handguards, dual heat controller to power heated jacket liner and or pants!!, Stebel 136DB horn, K&N air filter, colour matched Baglux tank cover (magnetic tank bag modified to fit cover), osram +50% headloight bulbs, headlight protector,"NitramSpecial" parking loight, tail light indicators all running on LED's & incorporate "Lite Buddies", MK7 Scottoiler fitted, taller screen, 2-2 stainless steel CCC's, Devil stainless down pipes. MKI Renntec engine crash bars & sump guard.
engine changed july 2007 on a dyno run it made 79.1BHP / Torque 59.9Had a brief flirtation with a 1999 MKIIa but it blew an exaust valve on the M5 so was sold on to be repaired.

I loike tay and hang sangwiches !

www.kenhogantreeservices.co.uk

http://s33.photobuck...77/wickla/?sc=6



http://reg.imageshack.us/v_images.php

post-1-1150550733.gifpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif


#3 Gwynhid

Gwynhid

    arrived on last train

  • Member
  • 5 posts
  • TDM model: none yet

Posted 30 June 2018 - 01:08 pm

Thanks, might try that but should it still be bypassable with a screwdriver when it is shot? Or is it more a switch problem? Was considering an extra switch as a starter switch to mimick the screwdriver trick...

#4 Andy25

Andy25

    Carpe Addict

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 335 posts
  • Location:Dundee
  • TDM model: 2000

Posted 30 June 2018 - 06:42 pm

As with most things in life
Stick to the basics first
You're gonna need to clean / replace the starter relay first anyway
99% of the Time that will cure the issue then you can spend more time riding your BIKE HTH

#5 wicklamulla

wicklamulla

    is it Jizzy Rascal time yet.....?

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,211 posts
  • Location:Parish of Cruwys (pronounced 'Cruise' just loike Tom) Morchard, Mid Devon.
  • TDM model: 1999

Posted 30 June 2018 - 07:41 pm

As with most things in life
Stick to the basics first
You're gonna need to clean / replace the starter relay first anyway
99% of the Time that will cure the issue then you can spend more time riding your BIKE HTH

 

good advice fer ya there Gwinhid.


spyball alarm/immob, bluespot brake calipers and Stainless hoses, Fournales air adjustable shock with Remote Resevoir, forks raised 10mm thru yokes, racetech linear fork springs in 15 wt oil, Kappa wingrack/luggage, heated grips, Kedo handguards, dual heat controller to power heated jacket liner and or pants!!, Stebel 136DB horn, K&N air filter, colour matched Baglux tank cover (magnetic tank bag modified to fit cover), osram +50% headloight bulbs, headlight protector,"NitramSpecial" parking loight, tail light indicators all running on LED's & incorporate "Lite Buddies", MK7 Scottoiler fitted, taller screen, 2-2 stainless steel CCC's, Devil stainless down pipes. MKI Renntec engine crash bars & sump guard.
engine changed july 2007 on a dyno run it made 79.1BHP / Torque 59.9Had a brief flirtation with a 1999 MKIIa but it blew an exaust valve on the M5 so was sold on to be repaired.

I loike tay and hang sangwiches !

www.kenhogantreeservices.co.uk

http://s33.photobuck...77/wickla/?sc=6



http://reg.imageshack.us/v_images.php

post-1-1150550733.gifpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif


#6 Andy25

Andy25

    Carpe Addict

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 335 posts
  • Location:Dundee
  • TDM model: 2000

Posted 30 June 2018 - 08:36 pm

good advice fer ya there Gwinhid.


Strangely enough it's only since I bought the TDM and joined Carpe
That I've really started to follow this philosophy
instead of over thinking things and looking for solutions for problems that I don't have

TDM = Therapy Delivery Machine

#7 Gwynhid

Gwynhid

    arrived on last train

  • Member
  • 5 posts
  • TDM model: none yet

Posted 30 June 2018 - 09:11 pm

Nothing against good advice chaps, have cleaned it etc, didnt look that bad actually, result wasnt great, no improvement, occasional clicking and nothing else.
If I short cut the Solenoid with a screwdriver starts instantly.
Killswitch is also still working so not that issue...
Have now dismantled the starter switch but wasnt sure what to expect, certainly found no rust or corrosions,
Initially was thinking its the battery and bought one (still in garage), shall I know buy a solenoid? Just wondering :-)

#8 fixitsan

fixitsan

    Carpe Citizen

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,668 posts
  • Location:West Lothian
  • TDM model: 2003

Posted 30 June 2018 - 09:28 pm

Examine the spade terminals really closely. They could have been crimped too tightly and have caused the wires inside the insulation to break.

 

An easy test would be to press the starter as you push the wires hard into their crimped terminals. Also check for spades which have opened up too much


900 with better bits. Owes me nothing, Makes me smile


#9 wicklamulla

wicklamulla

    is it Jizzy Rascal time yet.....?

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,211 posts
  • Location:Parish of Cruwys (pronounced 'Cruise' just loike Tom) Morchard, Mid Devon.
  • TDM model: 1999

Posted 30 June 2018 - 10:54 pm

Nothing against good advice chaps, have cleaned it etc, didnt look that bad actually, result wasnt great, no improvement, occasional clicking and nothing else.
If I short cut the Solenoid with a screwdriver starts instantly.
Killswitch is also still working so not that issue...
Have now dismantled the starter switch but wasnt sure what to expect, certainly found no rust or corrosions,
Initially was thinking its the battery and bought one (still in garage), shall I know buy a solenoid? Just wondering :-)

 

 

did ya see the pics of how i dis-assembled the starter relay,  did you do the same?


spyball alarm/immob, bluespot brake calipers and Stainless hoses, Fournales air adjustable shock with Remote Resevoir, forks raised 10mm thru yokes, racetech linear fork springs in 15 wt oil, Kappa wingrack/luggage, heated grips, Kedo handguards, dual heat controller to power heated jacket liner and or pants!!, Stebel 136DB horn, K&N air filter, colour matched Baglux tank cover (magnetic tank bag modified to fit cover), osram +50% headloight bulbs, headlight protector,"NitramSpecial" parking loight, tail light indicators all running on LED's & incorporate "Lite Buddies", MK7 Scottoiler fitted, taller screen, 2-2 stainless steel CCC's, Devil stainless down pipes. MKI Renntec engine crash bars & sump guard.
engine changed july 2007 on a dyno run it made 79.1BHP / Torque 59.9Had a brief flirtation with a 1999 MKIIa but it blew an exaust valve on the M5 so was sold on to be repaired.

I loike tay and hang sangwiches !

www.kenhogantreeservices.co.uk

http://s33.photobuck...77/wickla/?sc=6



http://reg.imageshack.us/v_images.php

post-1-1150550733.gifpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif


#10 Gwynhid

Gwynhid

    arrived on last train

  • Member
  • 5 posts
  • TDM model: none yet

Posted 01 July 2018 - 07:53 am

Yes, saw them and did it but as said above, not really corroded or rusty, cleaned it, built it up but no success...

Have now ordered a new solenoid and a switch, one of those things will hopefully do the trick.

Thanks again!

#11 wicklamulla

wicklamulla

    is it Jizzy Rascal time yet.....?

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,211 posts
  • Location:Parish of Cruwys (pronounced 'Cruise' just loike Tom) Morchard, Mid Devon.
  • TDM model: 1999

Posted 01 July 2018 - 12:49 pm

Yes, saw them and did it but as said above, not really corroded or rusty, cleaned it, built it up but no success...

Have now ordered a new solenoid and a switch, one of those things will hopefully do the trick.

Thanks again!

 

 

I'd check the positive and negative cables and terminals that are on the battery and frame too.


spyball alarm/immob, bluespot brake calipers and Stainless hoses, Fournales air adjustable shock with Remote Resevoir, forks raised 10mm thru yokes, racetech linear fork springs in 15 wt oil, Kappa wingrack/luggage, heated grips, Kedo handguards, dual heat controller to power heated jacket liner and or pants!!, Stebel 136DB horn, K&N air filter, colour matched Baglux tank cover (magnetic tank bag modified to fit cover), osram +50% headloight bulbs, headlight protector,"NitramSpecial" parking loight, tail light indicators all running on LED's & incorporate "Lite Buddies", MK7 Scottoiler fitted, taller screen, 2-2 stainless steel CCC's, Devil stainless down pipes. MKI Renntec engine crash bars & sump guard.
engine changed july 2007 on a dyno run it made 79.1BHP / Torque 59.9Had a brief flirtation with a 1999 MKIIa but it blew an exaust valve on the M5 so was sold on to be repaired.

I loike tay and hang sangwiches !

www.kenhogantreeservices.co.uk

http://s33.photobuck...77/wickla/?sc=6



http://reg.imageshack.us/v_images.php

post-1-1150550733.gifpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif


#12 divvxj

divvxj

    has been here 4ever

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,296 posts
  • Location:back in the garden
  • TDM model: 2007

Posted 01 July 2018 - 04:39 pm

Nothing against good advice chaps, have cleaned it etc, didnt look that bad actually, result wasnt great, no improvement, occasional clicking and nothing else.
If I short cut the Solenoid with a screwdriver starts instantly.
Killswitch is also still working so not that issue...
Have now dismantled the starter switch but wasnt sure what to expect, certainly found no rust or corrosions,
Initially was thinking its the battery and bought one (still in garage), shall I know buy a solenoid? Just wondering :-)

might be how you put the key in the barrel . My niner gives a click so I know that the key is not in the barrel properly , Switch off and then on and every thing is ok



#13 Gwynhid

Gwynhid

    arrived on last train

  • Member
  • 5 posts
  • TDM model: none yet

Posted 13 July 2018 - 02:58 pm

Hello again,

 

quick update, she is starting but is driving me slightly mad ...

 

In the end changed the solenoid, but still wouldn't work properly, changed the battery (as I had it lying around anyway), what a pleasure that was, especially as the battery did NOT perfectly fit the battery casing and yes, taking out the battery is difficult but putting back in is a proper nightmare.

 

Never the less, I still have occasional problems, mainly the starter engine continuing to run after the engine starts , which can be counteracted by pressing the starter button a few times afterwards.

 

In short I seem to have a problem from the starter button or the whole unit, as the kill switch has played up a few times, too. 

 

So ordered a new kill and starter switch, will take a few weeks from China and I will need to look at recreating the cabling as not original but am not sure whether paying 25£ for a 20 year old used unit would put me in a much better place than I currently am in, tbh.

 

The good news is that I can get her going and enjoy riding while waiting for the replacement part.

 

Thanks for all the help and input everyone.

 

 

might be how you put the key in the barrel . My niner gives a click so I know that the key is not in the barrel properly , Switch off and then on and every thing is ok

 

 

might be how you put the key in the barrel . My niner gives a click so I know that the key is not in the barrel properly , Switch off and then on and every thing is ok

 

Just to comment on this, my barrel is slightly dodgy anyway, doesn't go into lock or park position and needs some gentle persuasion getting into start position but I haven't experienced any click or so, that must be from your "modern" 900er ...



#14 divvxj

divvxj

    has been here 4ever

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,296 posts
  • Location:back in the garden
  • TDM model: 2007

Posted 13 July 2018 - 08:26 pm

Hello again,

 

quick update, she is starting but is driving me slightly mad ...

 

In the end changed the solenoid, but still wouldn't work properly, changed the battery (as I had it lying around anyway), what a pleasure that was, especially as the battery did NOT perfectly fit the battery casing and yes, taking out the battery is difficult but putting back in is a proper nightmare.

 

Never the less, I still have occasional problems, mainly the starter engine continuing to run after the engine starts , which can be counteracted by pressing the starter button a few times afterwards.

 

In short I seem to have a problem from the starter button or the whole unit, as the kill switch has played up a few times, too. 

 

So ordered a new kill and starter switch, will take a few weeks from China and I will need to look at recreating the cabling as not original but am not sure whether paying 25£ for a 20 year old used unit would put me in a much better place than I currently am in, tbh.

 

The good news is that I can get her going and enjoy riding while waiting for the replacement part.

 

Thanks for all the help and input everyone.

 

 

might be how you put the key in the barrel . My niner gives a click so I know that the key is not in the barrel properly , Switch off and then on and every thing is ok

 

 

 

Just to comment on this, my barrel is slightly dodgy anyway, doesn't go into lock or park position and needs some gentle persuasion getting into start position but I haven't experienced any click or so, that must be from your "modern" 900er ...

 

:good: 



#15 MAW

MAW

    seems to like Carpe

  • Member
  • 46 posts
  • Location:Caracas, Venezuela
  • TDM model: 2000

Posted 02 October 2018 - 01:15 am

Hi

My 2000 4TX have been experience some erratical starting problems like Gwynhind describe, sometimes the starter remain ON after the engine is running so I have to gear up some speed, push the break to kill the engine (anything else works) I disassembly the ignition switch clean it up and put back again, clean up the starter relay as wicklamulla suggest, toke the starter out inspect (very clean) test on the bench and put it back.

One interesting thing to comment sometimes when just the click of the starter relay come up and the dash lights on but not response from the starter I started to move the wires that comes from the clutch side on the handlebar and she start loud and clear (already jump the clutch switch to isolated the problem) but today she finally refuse to start I only have a clicking sound from the relay but nothing more.

Battery is strong and the stand switch was working properly.

Any inputs here

Thanks in advance


Wish you health to enjoy your rides from the sunny lands of Venezuela


#16 wicklamulla

wicklamulla

    is it Jizzy Rascal time yet.....?

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,211 posts
  • Location:Parish of Cruwys (pronounced 'Cruise' just loike Tom) Morchard, Mid Devon.
  • TDM model: 1999

Posted 02 October 2018 - 06:15 am

Hi

My 2000 4TX have been experience some erratical starting problems like Gwynhind describe, sometimes the starter remain ON after the engine is running so I have to gear up some speed, push the break to kill the engine (anything else works) I disassembly the ignition switch clean it up and put back again, clean up the starter relay as wicklamulla suggest, toke the starter out inspect (very clean) test on the bench and put it back.

One interesting thing to comment sometimes when just the click of the starter relay come up and the dash lights on but not response from the starter I started to move the wires that comes from the clutch side on the handlebar and she start loud and clear (already jump the clutch switch to isolated the problem) but today she finally refuse to start I only have a clicking sound from the relay but nothing more.

Battery is strong and the stand switch was working properly.

Any inputs here

Thanks in advance

 

 

Hi Maw,  have you inspected the starter button on the handle bar?


spyball alarm/immob, bluespot brake calipers and Stainless hoses, Fournales air adjustable shock with Remote Resevoir, forks raised 10mm thru yokes, racetech linear fork springs in 15 wt oil, Kappa wingrack/luggage, heated grips, Kedo handguards, dual heat controller to power heated jacket liner and or pants!!, Stebel 136DB horn, K&N air filter, colour matched Baglux tank cover (magnetic tank bag modified to fit cover), osram +50% headloight bulbs, headlight protector,"NitramSpecial" parking loight, tail light indicators all running on LED's & incorporate "Lite Buddies", MK7 Scottoiler fitted, taller screen, 2-2 stainless steel CCC's, Devil stainless down pipes. MKI Renntec engine crash bars & sump guard.
engine changed july 2007 on a dyno run it made 79.1BHP / Torque 59.9Had a brief flirtation with a 1999 MKIIa but it blew an exaust valve on the M5 so was sold on to be repaired.

I loike tay and hang sangwiches !

www.kenhogantreeservices.co.uk

http://s33.photobuck...77/wickla/?sc=6



http://reg.imageshack.us/v_images.php

post-1-1150550733.gifpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif


#17 MAW

MAW

    seems to like Carpe

  • Member
  • 46 posts
  • Location:Caracas, Venezuela
  • TDM model: 2000

Posted 02 October 2018 - 02:53 pm

Hi wicklamulla

Yes I did, disassembly it clean test and put back together, in my infinite ignorance about how electric things works I guess that it is perform well since every time I hit it the click sound comes from the starter relay


Wish you health to enjoy your rides from the sunny lands of Venezuela


#18 MAW

MAW

    seems to like Carpe

  • Member
  • 46 posts
  • Location:Caracas, Venezuela
  • TDM model: 2000

Posted 02 October 2018 - 03:24 pm

The starter relay could be test with a multimeter?
if the answer is yes, how
?

 

Thanks


Wish you health to enjoy your rides from the sunny lands of Venezuela


#19 MAW

MAW

    seems to like Carpe

  • Member
  • 46 posts
  • Location:Caracas, Venezuela
  • TDM model: 2000

Posted 03 October 2018 - 12:58 am

Hi guys I found some over heating marks on the starter relay as you can see in the pics, I tried to tested it but I am not 100% sure what am I doing here any help will be highly appreciate 

ThanksAttached File  1f7077dc-b929-410e-b9fc-d9e19aef8e00.jpg   43KB   0 downloads

 

Attached File  3c12aef3-e174-4f7d-b38a-ad7df18ac0fa.jpg   557.25KB   0 downloads


Wish you health to enjoy your rides from the sunny lands of Venezuela


#20 MAW

MAW

    seems to like Carpe

  • Member
  • 46 posts
  • Location:Caracas, Venezuela
  • TDM model: 2000

Posted 03 October 2018 - 01:10 am

This is what I did 

 

Attached File  c88feefc-02d5-481f-b5ce-88a98d1d58ff.jpg   46.43KB   1 downloads

 

But I have NO continuity 

 

I did right somebody can tell me 


Wish you health to enjoy your rides from the sunny lands of Venezuela



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users