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Niner Woes


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#1 Atesz792

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 06:34 pm

Hey all,
I've got some problems with my new to me niner and I'd like to ask for some help.
So generally it works wonderfully, in fact I had a helluva ride today, around 360 km's, mostly twisties and most of it was trouble free.
And then it started acting up again, after about 300 clicks.
It would behave like I closed the throttle for a split second at steady in-town cruising. Did this a couple of times, then when I pulled in the clutch the engine died. Restarted okay. Played this 3 or 4 times, then when restarted there was no idle. I decided it was dangerous to ride this way and was far from home so started turning idle adjuster knob till I had an idle. It became quite erratic, like idle somewhere around 1K then hunt some and settle between 2 and 3 K. Also saw some black smoke and smelled unburnt fuel. To add insult to injury adjuster knob fell off, but I could not find it so it could be in a tiny recess somewhere in the bike or anywhere on the road home. Riding home this way it did not stall anymore but 2-3 k fast idle and struggling-around-1-k did occur.
I would guess if I start her again tomorrow all would be well again for an unknown amount of time, except for the idle I set.
Error codes in the ECU DIAG are 11, 13, 19, 30.
Bought it this month, don't know if TPS recall or airbox mod had been done.
TIA for any help.
New member from Hungary, riding an '02 9er.

#2 dablik

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 06:58 pm

First thing that comes to mind is check the cold start mechanism is working okay, not raining today so would'nt suspect HT leads and/or coil, there's a list of diag codes just here .

 

Number 11 "cylinder id sensor" is very rare but i had one go on my old 9r, was a bugger to track down, check CSM 1st off could be your problem.


Bigred mk1 R1 Calipers- Braided lines- Givi wing rack-Crash bungs- Hi vis bullets-PR2's- and a hoot to ride.

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1991 MK1 in need of some TLC watch this space  :) Sorted and on the Road Mick :P :P it's the bike that Jack built ;)


#3 Atesz792

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 07:08 pm

Thanks dablik!
CSM should work as it started in the morning with a high idle of ~1800 until now and idle was set ~1200 RPM reached that quickly.
I'm in Hungary but yeah no rain around here either.
Thx for the code list, I found it also but could not make much use of it.
What were your symptoms with the cylinder id sensor fault?
Thanks
New member from Hungary, riding an '02 9er.

#4 dablik

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 08:00 pm

Mine lost power only to restart after approx 10 mins, this happened twice and then failed to start, was'nt far from a friend so took it to his house who's really quite handy with electrics but even so it was a bit of luck to find it, we swapped with another sensor behind the sprocket covers (cant recall it's name just now) for the sake of trying and low and behold the bike fired up, ran really rough though, i bought 2nd hand cylinder sensor from ebay which sorted my issue.... i really cant be sure that's your problem also !! had a few other error codes also, try to clear the codes and see if any go away.


Bigred mk1 R1 Calipers- Braided lines- Givi wing rack-Crash bungs- Hi vis bullets-PR2's- and a hoot to ride.

Quad 900 Silver Laser duo tech pipes-Scott oiler-Engine crash bars- Radiator mounted see me ring LED's-Datatool system 3 alarm -Centre stand- Extender fender-Renthal bars-Handle bar risers-Mirror extenders-BMW GS Handgaurds-Acumen uprated horn & Nautilus-Stainless steel Radiator guard-Givi wing rack-OEM screen-Yammy touring screen-MRA Vario-MRA Double bubble cut down for fast as fk riding-Tiger screen-Tank protector-Stomp grip panels-Optimate lead

 

1991 MK1 in need of some TLC watch this space  :) Sorted and on the Road Mick :P :P it's the bike that Jack built ;)


#5 TKH

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 12:48 am

A bit of help re the csm can be found here

https://www.tdm-yama...ex.php?page=CS1

This is fro JBX's site.

 

Have you checked the HT leads? Wondering if it's not firing properly fuel will be put in to the cyclinder but not burnt / properly.


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#6 Atesz792

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 07:34 am

Thanks guys!
Don't suspect CSM as it starts up fine then revs settle at the set value.
Haven't checked HT leads though; is that not a wet weather problem only? Would it cause my symptoms? Unburnt fuel when not firing properly would make sense!
Is there a tutorial for that problem?
Will also try and clear error codes.
Thanks again!
New member from Hungary, riding an '02 9er.

#7 fixitsan

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 08:54 am

If you suspect the HT leads just take the side panels off and run the bike in a darkened area (unlit garage ?)  You will see if the leads are arcing to the frame where they run close to it.

 

It might be that you only get the arcing when under load, so in that case wait until it gets dark and go for a ride with the side panels off, you'll soon see arcing as you accelerate


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#8 dablik

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 09:34 am

Wrap the leads anyway as it is a known issue, you can use amalgamating tape,rubber sleeving etc prevention better than cure.


Edited by dablik, 31 March 2019 - 09:34 am.

Bigred mk1 R1 Calipers- Braided lines- Givi wing rack-Crash bungs- Hi vis bullets-PR2's- and a hoot to ride.

Quad 900 Silver Laser duo tech pipes-Scott oiler-Engine crash bars- Radiator mounted see me ring LED's-Datatool system 3 alarm -Centre stand- Extender fender-Renthal bars-Handle bar risers-Mirror extenders-BMW GS Handgaurds-Acumen uprated horn & Nautilus-Stainless steel Radiator guard-Givi wing rack-OEM screen-Yammy touring screen-MRA Vario-MRA Double bubble cut down for fast as fk riding-Tiger screen-Tank protector-Stomp grip panels-Optimate lead

 

1991 MK1 in need of some TLC watch this space  :) Sorted and on the Road Mick :P :P it's the bike that Jack built ;)


#9 Robodene

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 10:45 am

I had a similar problem on another bike. It would cut and then return, sometimes after only a few revs, other times for some yards of 'progress'. It would run normally for some miles. Mainly this was affecting one cylinder. Backfiring cleared out the guts of the can! The problem was a bad/corroded wiring connection. It took some finding and was not me who sorted it so I cannot add any more to the tale. Because it so long to find I think it must have been something other than HT leads (new rectifiers made no difference). Good luck.
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#10 Atesz792

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 11:41 am

UPDATE
Cleared error codes then went to get some self amalg tape. Hardware store did not have it, probably have to order some online.
I was lucky to find idle adjusting knob still attached while engine was cold so my hands could reach inside more. Put it back where it belongs. Later set warm idle at ~1300 RPM.
Anyway, the issue returned and now seems to always come back within a few miles of riding. No error codes this time.
Seems to smoke some (black) when revved in neutral.
Called PO and he said he last had this problem around 5 years ago. Described it to be like running out of fuel and that seems correct for what it feels like. Said it went away for a while after switching ignition off/on and that seems correct too.
Also said he did not refuel with a certain brand of petrol anymore and that seems to have cured the problem for him.
I find that a bit hard to believe but he seemed like an honest guy genuinely sorry to see his bike go, also he insisted on taking pic together when we made the deal... would not think he would lie about it, but you just never know.
Sooo I filled the tank from half (of the supposedly not-so-good-stuff) to full with another brand, this time premium. Did not make a difference for a 10 minute ride but let's hope it will, just a bit later...
Will still order self amalg tape and do that + airbox mod when time permits, have to work a lot during the week.
New member from Hungary, riding an '02 9er.

#11 TKH

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 12:04 pm

Hope you get to the bottom of it. 


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#12 dablik

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 01:54 pm

I had a similar problem on another bike. It would cut and then return, sometimes after only a few revs, other times for some yards of 'progress'. It would run normally for some miles. Mainly this was affecting one cylinder. Backfiring cleared out the guts of the can! The problem was a bad/corroded wiring connection. It took some finding and was not me who sorted it so I cannot add any more to the tale. Because it so long to find I think it must have been something other than HT leads (new rectifiers made no difference). Good luck.

 

Actually Rob makes a valid point, a few members have found this problem, lift the tank and pull all the connectors, you could well have a corroded cable, used to pull mine apart once a year including the ecu and spray up with acf50, wont take long to check, crack on :D

 

Check battery connections, been another source of problems in my 9r life when they came a bit loose.


Edited by dablik, 31 March 2019 - 01:57 pm.

Bigred mk1 R1 Calipers- Braided lines- Givi wing rack-Crash bungs- Hi vis bullets-PR2's- and a hoot to ride.

Quad 900 Silver Laser duo tech pipes-Scott oiler-Engine crash bars- Radiator mounted see me ring LED's-Datatool system 3 alarm -Centre stand- Extender fender-Renthal bars-Handle bar risers-Mirror extenders-BMW GS Handgaurds-Acumen uprated horn & Nautilus-Stainless steel Radiator guard-Givi wing rack-OEM screen-Yammy touring screen-MRA Vario-MRA Double bubble cut down for fast as fk riding-Tiger screen-Tank protector-Stomp grip panels-Optimate lead

 

1991 MK1 in need of some TLC watch this space  :) Sorted and on the Road Mick :P :P it's the bike that Jack built ;)


#13 Robodene

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 03:13 pm

I thought mine must be fuel the first time it happened (I had just braked very heavily). I led the mechanics on quite a wild goose chase. I keep quiet now and leave them to their job, which I had better do right now...!
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#14 Studley Ramrod

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 03:21 pm

Might be worth checking the condition of both spark plugs, sounds like it could be a failing coil or spark plug to me.  You can get intermittent faults with either, especially when they're warmed up.


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#15 Matlock

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 09:40 pm

I had a similar problem on another bike. It would cut and then return, sometimes after only a few revs, other times for some yards of 'progress'. It would run normally for some miles. Mainly this was affecting one cylinder. Backfiring cleared out the guts of the can! The problem was a bad/corroded wiring connection. It took some finding and was not me who sorted it so I cannot add any more to the tale. Because it so long to find I think it must have been something other than HT leads (new rectifiers made no difference). Good luck.

My money is on this, it's going to start getting more common as the 900s get older. Remove the side panels, lift the tank and remove the airbox. Then get your reading glasses on and methodically work you way through each electrical connector, gently pulling them apart, visually inspecting, cleaning any corrosion (either with a bit of wet & dry, or a small, fine file) and replacing any connectors that are too far gone. A spray of electrical contact cleaner won't do any harm before reassembly. Finally spray each reassembled connector with ACF50.

While everything is off you may as well wrap the HT leads in self-amalgamating tape, check the coils for damage, visually check the plug caps and replace the plugs.

I had similar symptoms on my niner many years ago, followed these instructions and the fault has never returned. Good luck and I hope this fixes it. The 900 is a very reliable bike once the HT leads are sorted.


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#16 Atesz792

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Posted 01 April 2019 - 06:31 am

Thanks for all the kind help everyone!
Will get self amalg tape during this week. TBH removing everything up top incl. airbox seems a bit over the head for me, esp. regarding my limited set of tools.
I just hope it's the HT leads or the mild layer of crap on the neg. battery terminal I saw last night while putting the bike away. For those jobs I feel competent enough.
Will update again.
Cheers!
New member from Hungary, riding an '02 9er.

#17 Matlock

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Posted 01 April 2019 - 07:38 am

Lifting the tank and removing the airbox are simple enough and don't need much in the way of tools; cross-head screwdrivers, Allen keys and 12mm spanner/socket from memory. Shove some clean rag down the air intakes when the airbox comes off to prevent dropping anything in there, then just take your time, working through the connectors one at a time. That corroded battery terminal is a possibility, 5 minute job to sort that. Coat in in Vaseline after to prevent re-occurrence.  :good:


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#18 dandywarhol

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Posted 01 April 2019 - 10:48 am

Don't know why you guys don't just fit new copper core, non resistor leads from an auto shop for less than £5. they just unscrew from the coil and plug cap. The original leads are steel core and corrode.

 

Good info re. the connectors. From memory, the injection system runs a much lower voltage than battery voltage and triggers on the earth side. any high resistance will play havoc with injection duration.


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#19 Atesz792

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Posted 01 April 2019 - 11:05 am

Thanks again!
Matlock, will lift the tank if the simpler solutions won't work, let's just hope I don't have to.
Thumbs up for the vaseline trick!
Dandywarhol, great idea, did you replace yours with copper core leads? Any specifics to look for, like length, specific thread at the ends or stuff like that?
New member from Hungary, riding an '02 9er.

#20 dablik

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Posted 01 April 2019 - 12:26 pm

You buy HT leads by the metre and cut to required length, they normally screw in onto a selt tapping screw inside the coil, likewise plug caps, or can also be clip on on some denso coils.

 

Ates dont be reluctant to lift the tank, you'll have to address the connectors as a matter of course anyway, once side plastics are off it's 2 bolts front of the tank and then the tank pivots backwards on a hinge, dont lift with a full tank and support the tank with a piece of wood or bungie. It's really quite easy matey.


Bigred mk1 R1 Calipers- Braided lines- Givi wing rack-Crash bungs- Hi vis bullets-PR2's- and a hoot to ride.

Quad 900 Silver Laser duo tech pipes-Scott oiler-Engine crash bars- Radiator mounted see me ring LED's-Datatool system 3 alarm -Centre stand- Extender fender-Renthal bars-Handle bar risers-Mirror extenders-BMW GS Handgaurds-Acumen uprated horn & Nautilus-Stainless steel Radiator guard-Givi wing rack-OEM screen-Yammy touring screen-MRA Vario-MRA Double bubble cut down for fast as fk riding-Tiger screen-Tank protector-Stomp grip panels-Optimate lead

 

1991 MK1 in need of some TLC watch this space  :) Sorted and on the Road Mick :P :P it's the bike that Jack built ;)



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