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#1 gozer

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 12:46 pm

Hi all, hope everyone is o.k. and not letting the b`stards grind you down!! After a very long break from all things motorcycle related, I`ve managed to get back into it and start to regain my sanity over the last few months :yahoo: .

First thing I did was rebuild my v-max and take it on a trip to Valencia to see friends. Back in the shed, I`ve decided to downsize the fleet so decided to leave my three mk1 TDM`s to no`s 2, 3 & 4 in the queue and start with my XT600e to get it mot`d and move it on.

Now after much banging of head against wall with what seemed like a simple electrical problem, I`m at a loss and this was the first place I thought of ask for help. 

I know that there are some oracles of all things electrickery on here, so I humbly ask for your help, here goes.....

 

If I turn on the ignition and operate the indicators without the engine running, they work perfectly.

If I start the engine, they stop working.

If I turn on the sidelight with the engine running, they will work sometimes, others not.

If I turn on main headlight with the engine running, they will work perfectly.

If  I disconnect the headlight with the engine running they stop working but will start working again if I put the plug back on the bulb. 

 

I`ve also tried three different flasher units - exactly the same problem with any of them.

 

Now I`m normally not too bad with electrics and I`ve poked the multimeter into every connector that is in the indicator circuit and checked

the earthing as best as possible and can`t find any obvious fault. :isurrender:

Am I going mad and missing something that`s staring me in the face??? Please help `cos I`m wearing a hole in the wall with me `ead!


Edited by gozer, 22 September 2016 - 02:22 pm.


#2 fixitsan

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 07:11 pm

LED or standard indicators ?  LED ones sometimes use a special flasher....and sometimes need a mod so that the dashboard indicator repeater light works....I found a few LED indicator wiring mods on my mk1 which meant the indicators only worked if the dash repeater bulb was removed.

 

If standard bulbs are in, are there any obvious wiring mods ? any new wires cut in to replace damaged ones ? particulary behind front fairing/dash ?

 

Also on my mk1 the harness around the steering head was not routed correctly and turning from lock to lock let some bared wires short on the headstock


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#3 divvxj

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 07:31 pm

ignition barrel????



#4 gozer

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 06:08 pm

o.k. so Ive double checked everything today. All earths and connector blocks seem good and I went as far as stripping the whole  headlight area and stripping the insulation off the loom back to the headstock to look for chafed wires. I found one, which was from the engine stop switch on the right hand side, so taped that up but everything else looks fine. I also took the ignition switch to pieces and cleaned it out and freshened up the contacts. There are a couple of repaired wires in the front part of the loom but the connections are good. I opened up the switches on the left hand bar and had a look, seems to be clean enough. Put it all back together and it`s still exactly the same. The indicators aren`t original by the way, they`re mini aftermarket ones but they are just bulbs and not LED`s.

It`s as if the engine is stealing the power to the indicators when you start it but the headlight is giving them their power back when you turn it on. :dunno:  :dunno:  :dunno:

I`m totally stumped........HEEELLLLLLPP!! :help:  :help:  :help:



#5 fixitsan

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 08:36 pm

Cgeck the wiring diagram to ascertain where the indicator 12V supply feeds in ( to the switch ?) and provide a separate new one directly from the battery.....this will show if the problem is on the high side or the low side


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#6 Catteeclan

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 07:58 am

Mk1 or 2?

I'd start with a probe light or meter on the signal lights fuse, still live after starting?


Edited by Catteeclan, 24 September 2016 - 08:01 am.

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#7 mh1848

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 05:46 pm

have you checked the fuse box/block - they can get pretty corroded and cause intermittent and then permanent faults - i had to replace mine - 20 years of crud


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#8 gozer

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 03:21 pm

I had another look today.
I ran some separate earths from the indicators and the problem is still there. I then decided to check the continuity on all earths, so I set the multimeter to continuity buzzer and went to every earthing point in turn, all good. Then I attached the probe directly to the battery negative and went round all the earths again, all good. Out of sheer desperation / frustration / curiosity I started poking at every terminal I could find.
Now then, when I disconnected the switchgear on the indicator side and started to poke at the connector block on the loom, most of the terminals were giving continuity. I pulled the connector off the headlamp bulb and stuck the probe in and I am getting continuity not only to the earth but also to the high beam wire directly from the battery negative. Correct me if I`m wrong, but doesn`t this prove that there is a breach between the lives and earth??
It would be good if someone can confirm that I`m heading in the right direction and it won`t be the actions of a bonehead if I start stripping miles of loom tape off to try and find the problem.



#9 Catteeclan

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 07:50 pm

Earths will run through bulbs and all sorts, not really a good test what you're doing.

 

Did you check for a feed at the indicator fuse with the engine off and on? what year xt?


Edited by Catteeclan, 27 September 2016 - 07:58 pm.

2002 TDM900 Yellow


#10 gozer

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 03:21 pm

Sorry for the tardy reply time but apparently decorating is more important than anything else I might want to do! (according to SWMBO)

The problem seems to be sorted now....well sorted enough anyway. And I cant moan too much as it was the other half that pointed the way!!
A couple of weeks ago I spent all weekend stripping the loom open and checking everything literally wire by wire. NO SODDING FAULT FOUND! superangry.png
At this point, the air turned blue with words and phrases I didn`t know I knew, there was a lot of metallic noises as tools and sundry bits and bobs were thrown at high velocity and I noticed that German Shepherds move twice the speed of Greyhounds under these conditions!
At this point, in she walks to find out what`s going on / calm things down and asks what the problem is.
I explain and demonstrate the indicator issue. First thing she says is
`Why is that one a bit dimmer than the others? It`s not much but definitely dimmer.`
`Dunno, I hadn`t noticed, it looks the same from here`
`You stand in front of the bike and look`
`OOh arr, I`ll check that bulb` my face goes purple with rage.
`Whassamarra?`
``IT`S A `KIN 5W BULB!!!!!` superangry.pngsuperangry.pngsuperangry.png
So I put a 23w bulb in and TA-DA! indicators work normally!!!
I bought the bike with the indicator fault thinking it would be nothing more than a flasher relay swop. It looks like the previous owner must have had a bulb go and just gone into a car spares shop and got one that was the same size but didn`t know it had to be the correct wattage.
Now here`s the strange bit. They will only work with an old type bi-metal flasher unit, if I fit an electronic type the original problem is there.
Not that it matters now, but anybody want to hazard a guess as to why this is??
I suppose the moral of the story is never assume anything and always check what seems stupid as it can save a motherload of headaches/swearing/violence!
By the way, many thanks to all who offered advice/guesses, it`s greatly appreciated.
I`ve now started to sort my TL1000S and have a problem with that, but I`ll save that for another thread and give you chance to get over this one!



#11 fixitsan

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 05:55 pm

it's always something simple when you have to go to great extremes to find a fault


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