Stopping In The Wet
#1
Posted 17 November 2010 - 10:16 pm
Thx, APW
Have you ever lent someone 20 quid and never seen it again? It was probably worth it.
Long Loved TDM is no longer with me...
#2
Posted 17 November 2010 - 11:43 pm
#3
Posted 18 November 2010 - 12:33 am
Running the risk of going under? hmmm, shouldn't do in a controlled stop esp. when you know its coming. Only really stamping on the back will cause you problems and you will have to really really be going silly to lose the front in a practice situation.
My advice (for what its worth) would be to find yourself a decent bit of tarmac ground such as a car park that is free from potholes, excessive amounts of grit or shale and have a little ride around to see if you can see anything nasty like diesel (rainbow coloured in light when wet) Set yourself two points, one at which you want to start braking and then a target point at which you want to have come to a stop. Start off really easy and gradually bring the points closer and increase your approach speed as you get more confident and feel where the limits of grip and control are. Try to stay relaxed and keep your arms slightly bent at the elbows. The idea of practising an emergency stop this way that it will become second nature to do it right in an a hurry. The front brakes on a TDM are superb and give great feedback, if they will pull up an R1 without problems then you sure as hell wont have any worries with a TDM!
Alternatively, borrow an LC for a week and then you will think that you have WSB brakes!!!!! (I am asking Santa for an anchor for xmas!)
Please dont tell my Mom I ride a TDM - she thinks I spend my weekends in a brothel
#4
Posted 18 November 2010 - 12:49 am
Thx, APW
Probably like most riders by necessity, the last time was on the A69, Newcastle to Carlisle. It was raining that hard Salmon were swimming across the road. A truck turned in front of me & I had to give it the big squeeze & turn. Still don't know how I stayed up right but I do love Bridgestones since then.
I learned to ride off road which teaches you to load the forks & get your body weight central before really braking hard on a slippery surface. Wet tarmac does not worry me to much, I focus on riding smoother but still maintain the same pace. It's the white lines, tar overbanding etc which are really treacherous in the rain & damp as opposed to wet roads are pants. You can lock the front just as easy in the dry as the wet if you really try, the limit is where you find it regardless of weather. I think the trick is to be smooth, balanced & confident with the rear & front brakes, you can't guess how much grip you have, you have to focus on avoiding the hazard & try to anticipate what the bike will do. An upright lock up normally stays upright if you have the reflexes & centered balance to release the lever pressure slightly like ABS, any kind of lean & your better off having the back lock up & tightening the turn, the front just goes, ciao, bye.
If you practice heavy braking in the dry on different surfaces you will develop a feel for weight transfer, suspension loading etc. It applies exactly the same in the wet. Practice at slow speed, don't clench the bars when you brake otherwise if the front doe's lock you hang onto the brake & have a tumble also practice using front & rear brakes together, the aim is to try & keep the bike level maximising your grip.
In an emergency you want that subconscious feel to kick in under maximum braking while your brain looks for the gap. If your nervous of wet roads you will not be smooth & confident, purely psychological.
Practice Grasshopper
Best of all, always ride in space, anticipate & always be able to stop in the distance that you can see to be clear. Good riding minimises those trouser staining moments & hopefully your awareness is such that you can react instantly & correctly should you have to.
If I'm not 100% focused I don't ride, old age is getting me,
TDM 850 Loud and unusual. CRM 250r Woo hoo! DT 230 Lanza Fiddled with.... Bloody hell, is that legal? GG Randonee AKA "I didn't think that was possible".
#5
Posted 18 November 2010 - 01:02 am
Grabbing a hand full of front brake in the wet will lock the wheel and cause aqua planing because the braking force will take effect before the forks have had time to compress and transfere the weight to the front tyre.
To avoid this the idea is to apply the front brake gradually over about 1.5 seconds allowing the weight to transfere and the front tyre to cut through the water and down to the road surface, at this point you can then apply the rear brake to hep stabalise the bike aswell as applying more front.
It's a good idea to practice this in the dry first to get a feel for how the weight trasferes on you particular set up.
Practicing in the wet can indeed be a bit of a gamble but if you start on a slight incline the chances of going down are seriously reduced, when you are confident move to a flat road and when you feel ready move on to a downhill section.
Also, I usually drop the front tyre pressure by about 3psi when it's raining just to allow the tyre to flatten ouy a bit more under braking and present a bit more surface area to the road.
Edited by celticbiker, 18 November 2010 - 01:04 am.
(\__/) This is bunny. Copy and paste
(x'.'x) bunny onto your page to help
(")-(") him gain world domination!
#6
Posted 18 November 2010 - 02:07 am
I've read screeds on this subject but that is the first time I have come across this veritable pearl of wisdom.
TDM 850 Loud and unusual. CRM 250r Woo hoo! DT 230 Lanza Fiddled with.... Bloody hell, is that legal? GG Randonee AKA "I didn't think that was possible".
#8
Posted 18 November 2010 - 10:07 am
APW
Have you ever lent someone 20 quid and never seen it again? It was probably worth it.
Long Loved TDM is no longer with me...
#9
Posted 18 November 2010 - 04:19 pm
Stu
#10
Posted 18 November 2010 - 04:46 pm
I do, I do. None have come up yet.
I was never very confident in the wet, but now I'm as twitchy as hell when it rains. I don't know what I can do to develop wet riding confidence really. I'm forever scanning the road for oil splashes and take roundabouts and corners as if I'm about to get eaten up by bend dwelling trogs.
Blue 04 TDM,PR2 rear Roadsmart front, Yamaha topox, Givi E360 panniers, PL pannier holders, BMW handguards, Yamaha touring screen, Scottoiler, 12v ciggie socket, carbon core HT leads
Gorn
#11
Posted 18 November 2010 - 05:39 pm
Edited by dicky1, 18 November 2010 - 05:40 pm.
Hers Honda XL1000, TTR250 off-roader
#12
Posted 18 November 2010 - 09:31 pm
I was never very confident in the wet, but now I'm as twitchy as hell when it rains. I don't know what I can do to develop wet riding confidence really. I'm forever scanning the road for oil splashes and take roundabouts and corners as if I'm about to get eaten up by bend dwelling trogs.
I used to be the same, made myself feel like I was riding on ice with my eyeballs pressed up against the visor trying to see the future. A few heavy braking & acceleration incidents on wet roads caused me to expect the worst but I just discovered a lot more grip than expected. I also realised despite how I felt mentally & the increased focus on smoothness & perceived lack of grip I was still riding at the same speed with no issues at all & still maintaining a healthy safety margin. My focus now is on what I know will be slippy, as you say oil splashes, areas on the road where traffic stands, accelerates & brakes, painted lines, mud etc. I've come to enjoy riding in the rain with extra concentration required to still ride well.
TDM 850 Loud and unusual. CRM 250r Woo hoo! DT 230 Lanza Fiddled with.... Bloody hell, is that legal? GG Randonee AKA "I didn't think that was possible".
#13
Posted 22 November 2010 - 08:34 pm
I learned to ride off road which teaches you to load the forks & get your body weight central before really braking hard on a slippery surface. Wet tarmac does not worry me to much, I focus on riding smoother but still maintain the same pace. It's the white lines, tar overbanding etc which are really treacherous in the rain & damp as opposed to wet roads are pants. You can lock the front just as easy in the dry as the wet if you really try, the limit is where you find it regardless of weather. I think the trick is to be smooth, balanced & confident with the rear & front brakes, you can't guess how much grip you have, you have to focus on avoiding the hazard & try to anticipate what the bike will do. An upright lock up normally stays upright if you have the reflexes & centered balance to release the lever pressure slightly like ABS, any kind of lean & your better off having the back lock up & tightening the turn, the front just goes, ciao, bye.
If you practice heavy braking in the dry on different surfaces you will develop a feel for weight transfer, suspension loading etc. It applies exactly the same in the wet. Practice at slow speed, don't clench the bars when you brake otherwise if the front doe's lock you hang onto the brake & have a tumble also practice using front & rear brakes together, the aim is to try & keep the bike level maximising your grip.
In an emergency you want that subconscious feel to kick in under maximum braking while your brain looks for the gap. If your nervous of wet roads you will not be smooth & confident, purely psychological.
Practice Grasshopper
Best of all, always ride in space, anticipate & always be able to stop in the distance that you can see to be clear. Good riding minimises those trouser staining moments & hopefully your awareness is such that you can react instantly & correctly should you have to.
If I'm not 100% focused I don't ride, old age is getting me,
Fender extension; Right miror extension; Tutoro oiler; Frank Thomas leather Bullit Retro Jacket with Knox back protector for normal time and textile jacket with forcefield 4 for long trips, monolock plate with E45 GIVI top case, Michelin PR2
#14
Posted 22 November 2010 - 09:43 pm
#15
Posted 22 November 2010 - 10:08 pm
So I suppose the natural progression of this topic is how effective is the ABS? I have it on the car and it is brilliant, although I still find it hard to plant the brakes with the reassurance that the ABS will kick in if needed. But how does the ABS feel on a bike when there is perhaps some lean involved as well? My 4TX has only 10k miles up so I have many moons left in it but I think the next steed will be an ABS model. Has anyone any pearls on ABS?
Cheer again,
APW
Have you ever lent someone 20 quid and never seen it again? It was probably worth it.
Long Loved TDM is no longer with me...
#16
Posted 22 November 2010 - 11:07 pm
So I suppose the natural progression of this topic is how effective is the ABS? I have it on the car and it is brilliant, although I still find it hard to plant the brakes with the reassurance that the ABS will kick in if needed. But how does the ABS feel on a bike when there is perhaps some lean involved as well? My 4TX has only 10k miles up so I have many moons left in it but I think the next steed will be an ABS model. Has anyone any pearls on ABS?
Cheer again,
APW
I've not tried it yet, but according to MCM, the powers that be in Brussels want to make it compulsory on all bikes over 100cc sold from 2017. Apparently, the only exception will be true off-roaders and there will be no facility to disconnect the ABS.
AliG
2004 900 - Blue with lots of goodies
2012 900 - Still adding shiny bits. Was black, changed to white and now back to black again.
#17
Posted 23 November 2010 - 12:08 am
I also understand it is supposed the lengthen the stopping distnce a bit but I suppose it increases the chances of stying upright as well.
#18
Posted 23 November 2010 - 01:45 am
TDM 850 Loud and unusual. CRM 250r Woo hoo! DT 230 Lanza Fiddled with.... Bloody hell, is that legal? GG Randonee AKA "I didn't think that was possible".
#19
Posted 23 November 2010 - 04:38 am
I was never very confident in the wet, but now I'm as twitchy as hell when it rains. I don't know what I can do to develop wet riding confidence really. I'm forever scanning the road for oil splashes and take roundabouts and corners as if I'm about to get eaten up by bend dwelling trogs.
Yesterday morning I dodged and followed diesel spillage for around 4 miles, on soaking wet roads. You can normally smell it before you see it, this occasion I could clearly see it, It's scary shit. I was like a dog on Roller Skates.
And simply avoid braking when near Derv/wet tarmac as there is no escape.
cats
#20
Posted 23 November 2010 - 07:56 am
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users